Citations and SBL

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This post has 15 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 452
David Buckham | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Sep 27 2011 8:05 PM

First, yes, this is my fault, but would love to see Logos correct this. I have SBL selected as my citation method. The only problem is Logos uses some type of generic citation method whereas SBL (according to the Handbook) has several types of citations (31 standard and many more special styles). My problem, not Logos, was I didn't check to make sure the Logos citation conformed to the standards of the SBL handbook. I assumed. Fool me once…

Needless to say, I got docked pretty good for improperly citing my work on my paper (and so did the rest of the class as we all use Logos, well all but one student).

Thanks all!

all about Christ,

David Buckham

http://thinkspurlove.blogspot.com

 

 

Posts 452
David Buckham | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 10 2011 7:11 PM

BUMP...any help...anyone...Logos?

all about Christ,

David Buckham

http://thinkspurlove.blogspot.com

 

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 10 2011 7:47 PM

It would help if you provided some examples. How many of the DBL citation styles apply to electronic texts which usually have somewhat different requirements than dead tree resources?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 28
Dean J | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 10 2011 7:49 PM

I didn't even know you could use logos for this - how does it work - I've always had to cite the old fashioned way. 

Posts 452
David Buckham | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 10 2011 8:00 PM

Here is what Logos gave me:

0 false 18 pt 18 pt 0 0 false false false

Keener, Craig S. and InterVarsity Press. The IVP Bible Background Commentary: New Testament. Downers Grove, Ill.: InterVarsity Press, 1993.

Krentz, Edgar M. “First and Second Epistles to the Thessalonians.” Pages 515-517 in volume 6 of The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary. Edited by David Noel Freedman. 6 volumes New York: Doubleday, 1996.

Marshall, I. Howard “1 Thessalonians 5:12–24.” No pages. New Bible Commentary: 21st Century Edition. Edited by D. A. Carson. 4th Edition. Leicester, England; Downers Grove, Ill., USA: Inter-Varsity Press, 1994.

 

Here is what it should have been:

0 false 18 pt 18 pt 0 0 false false false

Keener, Craig S. and InterVarsity Press. The IVP Bible Background Commentary: New Testament. Downers Grove, Ill.: InterVarsity Press, 1993.

Krentz, Edgar M. “First and Second Epistles to the Thessalonians.” Pages 515-517 in vol 6 of The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary. Edited by David Noel Freedman. 6 vols New York: Doubleday, 1996.

Marshall, I. Howard “1 Thessalonians 5:12–24.” No pages. New Bible Commentary: 21st Century Edition. Edited by D. A. Carson. 4th Edition. Leicester, England; Downers Grove, Ill.: USA: Inter-Varsity Press, 1994.

 

The differences are minor, but they are SBL (and my prof is very much by the book). For instance colon use after the state in the third example and vol/vols instead of volume/volumes in second example.

 

 

all about Christ,

David Buckham

http://thinkspurlove.blogspot.com

 

 

Posts 452
David Buckham | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 10 2011 8:02 PM

Dean053:

I didn't even know you could use logos for this - how does it work - I've always had to cite the old fashioned way. 

In "Program Settings" you can change the citation type. There are lots to pick from. Extremely useful for papers...when it works right. :D

all about Christ,

David Buckham

http://thinkspurlove.blogspot.com

 

 

Posts 1216
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 10 2011 8:35 PM
David, for 3 years I have been in an academic environment. We use our own style manual which is basically based on Turabian. However, even though for the most part it puts the citations in the papers accurately, it is still my responsibility to check my citations and the bibliography to ensure accuracy. I learned that lesson with Logos 3. Check your citations before you publish your paper. Don't blame the software. The more papers you write the easier it is to see the errors. Matt
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 10 2011 9:29 PM

Matthew Hamrick:
Check your citations before you publish your paper. Don't blame the software.

My favorite error in one of my research paper was using a Pali term that was spelled differently in a Thai source and a Sri Lankan source. First time I learned that I had to be consist in my paper even though the quoted sources were not. What was even more enlightening, however, was that the professor had actually gone to the library to check the quotes to make sure it wasn't a typo.Embarrassed

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 10 2011 9:50 PM

MJ. Smith:

Matthew Hamrick:
Check your citations before you publish your paper. Don't blame the software.

My favorite error in one of my research paper was using a Pali term that was spelled differently in a Thai source and a Sri Lankan source. First time I learned that I had to be consist in my paper even though the quoted sources were not. What was even more enlightening, however, was that the professor had actually gone to the library to check the quotes to make sure it wasn't a typo.Embarrassed

Couldn't you simply have inserted (Sic!) after differing forms?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 10 2011 11:43 PM

George Somsel:
Couldn't you simply have inserted (Sic!) after differing forms?

Dr. Ruegg had me use a single Pali spelling and footnote the modification noting that the original text varied. I thought the easiest solution was to write a paper using only Sri Lankan and European sources. He didn't appreciate my humor.Geeked

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 452
David Buckham | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 11 2011 6:20 AM

Matthew Hamrick:
Check your citations before you publish your paper. Don't blame the software.

While I appreciate and agree with your words of advice, did you even read my first post? I acknowledge that I didn't follow up. I don't blame Logos for my assumption. I should have double checked my bibliography. As I said before, lesson learned. While I have written a few papers for grad school before, this was my first SBL formatted based paper and it was just the bibliography that got dinged.

Now, on to the purpose of the original post, if there is a functioning feature that Logos has it should work correctly...I am merely expressing (and showing) where the software went wrong. Logos won't fix it if they do not know it is incorrect. So I hope the examples I provided help to fix this feature.

all about Christ,

David Buckham

http://thinkspurlove.blogspot.com

 

 

Posts 56
AA7163 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 11 2011 6:35 AM

I think you were part of a thread before that I started with a similar issue that ended up at least getting noted by logos staff.

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/36506/273498.aspx#273498

I think your problem is more widespread than this, so hopefully logos takes a look at this and actually makes some changes.  Its something I would like fixed as well.  Its one of the great features of logos for someone in academics and it shouldn't be that hard to fix.

Posts 158
Reimar Vetne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 8 2013 4:34 PM

I posted about this elsewhere and thenstarted to wonder if there was another discussion thread about how poorly Logos formats footnotes and bibliographies according to the SBL (Society of Biblical Literature) style. I found this thread.

The SBL style is being used increasingly more and more by many publishers in biblical and theological studies, so it would be extremely useful if Logos could format it correctly for us rather that us having to manually reformat our footntoes and bibliographies when we cite things from books in our Logos library.

Here are some examples so Logos can see how badly their SBL style template works.

SERIES TITLES

Footnote produced by Logos in alleged SBL style:

Mark L. Strauss, The Davidic Messiah in Luke–Acts: The Promise and Its Fulfillment in Lukan Christology (Journal for the Study of the New Testament Supplement Series; Sheffield, England: Sheffield Academic Press, 1995), 16.

Correct SBL style (notice the abbreviation of the series inside the parenthesis, and the number in the series):

Mark L. Strauss, The Davidic Messiah in Luke–Acts: The Promise and Its Fulfillment in Lukan Christology (JSNTSup 413; Sheffield, England: Sheffield Academic Press, 1995), 16.

Bibliographical entry produced by Logos in alleged SBL style:

Strauss, Mark L. The Davidic Messiah in Luke–Acts: The Promise and Its Fulfillment in Lukan Christology. Vol. 413. Journal for the Study of the New Testament Supplement Series. Sheffield, England: Sheffield Academic Press, 1995.

Correct SBL style:

Strauss, Mark L. The Davidic Messiah in Luke–Acts: The Promise and Its Fulfillment in Lukan Christology. Journal for the Study of the New Testament: Supplement Series 413. Sheffield, England: Sheffield Academic Press, 1995.


EDITED BOOKS

Many books, like Festschrifts and other essay collections, consist of articles/book sections written by different authors. Instead of giving credit to the person who wrote the piece being quoted, Logos incorrectly give credit to the editor of the book.

Footnote produced by Logos in alleged SBL style:

John Kaltner and Louis Stulman, eds., Inspired Speech: Prophecy in the Ancient Near East Essays in Honor of Herbert B. Huffmon (London: T&T Clark, 2004), 336.

Correct SBL style is VERY different:

Michael S. More, "Bathsheba's Silence (1 Kings 1:11–31)," in Inspired Speech: Prophecy in the Ancient Near East Essays in Honor of Herbert B. Huffmon (ed. John Kaltner and Louis Stulman; London: T&T Clark, 2004), 336.

PUBLISHING HOUSE NAMES, STATE ABBREVIATIONS

In section 7.1.4.1 of the SBL Style Handbook it says that the publisher's name should be abbreviated as much as possible by the omission of Publishing Company and similar (except for university presses).

Regarding the US states (when referring to lesser known cities), SBL uses standard abbreviations and not postal code abbreviations (Handbook 7.1.4.2).

Alleged SBL style footnote produced by Logos:

Gary A. Long, Grammatical Concepts 101 for Biblical Greek: Learning Biblical Greek Grammatical Concepts Through English Grammar (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 2006), 69–70.

Correct SBL style:

Gary A. Long, Grammatical Concepts 101 for Biblical Greek: Learning Biblical Greek Grammatical Concepts Through English Grammar (Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson, 2006), 69–70.

JOURNAL ARTICLES

Just like Logos fails to abbreviate book series in the footnotes, they fail to abbreviate journal titles. (Obviously, the SBL Handbook has not produced abbrevations for all existing journals worldwide, but they have made a list of abbreviations for the most common ones in theological and biblical studies.)

Logos also incorrectly adds the name of the journal editor, and in the case of journals where the page numbering of the second and third issue in the same year follows consecutively upon the last page of the previous issue, Logos incorrectly adds the issue number. Specifying the issue number in the footnote and in the bibliography is only necessary for those journals where the page number start with 1 in each issue.

For instance, the Tyndale Bulletin issue 2 of 2008 begins with page 161 (since issue 1 of 2008 ended with page 160). It is then not necessary (and not correct) to include the issue. Only the volume should be stated.

Footnote produced by Logos in alleged SBL style:

Michael F. Bird, “New Testament Theology Re-Loaded: Integrating Biblical Theology and Christian Origins,” ed. P. J. Williams, Tyndale Bulletin Volume 60 60, no. 2 (2008): 267.

The reduplication of the volume number 60 is probably a bug in the template for the SBL style. But this footname has a lot of other errors as well, as can be seen when compared to the following correct version.

Correct SBL style:

Michael F. Bird, “New Testament Theology Re-Loaded: Integrating Biblical Theology and Christian Origins,” TynBul 60 (2008): 267.

These were just a few scattered examples.

I do understand that in order for Logos to do the SBL style correctly they would have to manually go through ALL the resources they sell and add a lot of new information in their database, including the proprietary SBL abbreviations for journals and book series, and article information for each and every article/section in edited books. It would be a lot of work for them, but it would be a wonderful time saving feature for many of us who write academic articles and books in that has to be submitted in the SBL style. Now it takes a lot of time to manually edit the footnotes and bibliographical entries Logos provides.

As a university professor it is also quite frustrating to have students hand in term papers that they believe is in the correct format, when their footnotes and bibliographies are riddled with errors. Logos uses ready-formatted footnotes and bibliographies as a selling point to students, and they list SBL as one of the styles supported. Unfortunately this is not quite true.

Let me point out that I am a very happy and satisfied Logos customers otherwise. I love the software and the huge number of commentaries and other resources available for Logos. Logos enables me to do fast and effective research and I would not go back to life without Logos for anything. I just wanted to point out to Logos that their SBL style template needs some serious work in order to follow the official SBL Handbook of Style.

Reimar Vetne
Associate Professor of New Testament
University of Montemorelos, Mexico

Posts 525
Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2013 11:15 AM

Is SBL the only style that has been found to be in error?

Posts 452
David Buckham | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2013 11:28 AM

Not sure if SBL is the only formatting style that had issues. SBL is pretty intensive though. I'm not sure but I believe the examples above may be missing some italics as well. 

all about Christ,

David Buckham

http://thinkspurlove.blogspot.com

 

 

Posts 2472
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 9 2013 11:52 AM

David Buckham:

Not sure if SBL is the only formatting style that had issues.

Well, the MLA Style -- which is very tedious -- is broken as well. Perhaps a few of the other formats are broken as well.

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