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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2011 11:49 AM

alabama24:
Patrick - you asked if there was any "intersection of titles." The answer is no. Vyrso books do not have Logos editions.

However, there are similar books that could as well belong to both spheres - and one might like to read them in Vyrso as well as being search hits in Logos. The "Foundation of evangelical theology" - series even has two books in Vyrso and two books in Logos (see this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/38466.aspx ).

Thus, I think it's a good thing that Vyrso books work in Logos and vice versa.

The issue on both platforms is managing a library - would be nice to have the genre-categories from the vyrso shop / the logos site in the library as a starter (e.g. theology-soteriology, theology-history, ... )

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2011 11:55 AM

alabama24:

I did just try it on my L4 library and viola! Glad to know the MAC VERSION has a leg up. Smile (Sorry its not working for you Tongue Tied)

Huh? Works fine on Windows:

 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2011 11:59 AM

NewbieMick:
Huh? Works fine on Windows:

Just going off what Halo Hound said:

Halo Hound:
That doesn't work in L4 PC version. Wish it did.

I wonder if he meant Android?

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2011 2:02 PM

 

Ted Hans:

Bohuslav Wojnar:
I want however to have the option to see those books as I use Logos for Bible study and Vyrso for plain reading of books, both Vyrso and Logos ones.

I would like to see my Vyrso books in my Logos library. For me I would not invest in Vyrso books If Logos decides to remove it from my Logos library.

 

Jacob Hantla:

Personally I think the value of a Vyrso book is its integration into Logos. I love having my Vyrso books in Logos, easily searchable, taggable, markupable, etc. 

Hear what you all are saying  — thing is you are all assuming the titles are theological and/or a match for Logos 4. No argument there — as long as you can also accept that some people would not want to see — cooking books; exercise books; children's books etc. — in their Logos library nor have to go through hoops to constantly exclude books of that sort purchased from Vyrso website from Logos 4. 

 

Jacob Hantla:

I think it may be a good idea for Logos to enable an option in the Vyrso app to only show the ebooks for those who want that. Then those who want that could use Vyrso app for reading ebooks and Logos app for reading others. 

The need is in both the Vyrso & Logos 4 apps, more so for Logos 4. I trust Logos will work out a clean solution.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2011 2:15 PM

Easy solution for Logos 4 is to make collections to allow you search keeping your Vyrso and non-Vyrso books separate

Vyrso books:

Non-Vyrso books

 

Then a search of your non-Vyrso books would just look like this:

Also, you can limit by collections when searching in Logos for iOS, so these collections could help you.

 

Personally, since my vyrso books are all theological, I can't see any reason why I'd use these collections, but for those who are asking about how to keep them separate, this seems like an easy solution to me. 

 

Jacob Hantla
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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2011 2:57 PM

Jacob Hantla:
Personally, since my vyrso books are all theological, I can't see any reason why I'd use these collections
YesYesYes

Jacob Hantla:
Personally, since my vyrso books are all theological, I can't see any reason why I'd use these collections, but for those who are asking about how to keep them separate, this seems like an easy solution to me. 

Thanks Jacob for your thoughts & suggestion on this issue.

 

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2011 3:09 PM

Jacob Hantla:
Personally I think the value of a Vyrso book is its integration into Logos. I love having my Vyrso books in Logos, easily searchable, taggable, markupable, etc. 

Aye.   That's the benefit of Vyrso to me--a quicker, cheaper way to get books in my library.   If there was an ebook that for some reason I didn't want in Logos, I would buy the Kindle version. 

While I can see that folks wouldn't want the clutter in the library, I don't see that it would be a problem with search results.   If a children's book came up at the top of my ranked search results, then there is probably a good reason for it, and it would be good to see why it is there.

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2011 3:47 PM

Patrick S.:

 

Ted Hans:

Bohuslav Wojnar:
I want however to have the option to see those books as I use Logos for Bible study and Vyrso for plain reading of books, both Vyrso and Logos ones.

I would like to see my Vyrso books in my Logos library. For me I would not invest in Vyrso books If Logos decides to remove it from my Logos library.

 

Jacob Hantla:

Personally I think the value of a Vyrso book is its integration into Logos. I love having my Vyrso books in Logos, easily searchable, taggable, markupable, etc. 

Hear what you all are saying  — thing is you are all assuming the titles are theological and/or a match for Logos 4. No argument there — as long as you can also accept that some people would not want to see — cooking books; exercise books; children's books etc. — in their Logos library nor have to go through hoops to constantly exclude books of that sort purchased from Vyrso website from Logos 4. 

 

Jacob Hantla:

I think it may be a good idea for Logos to enable an option in the Vyrso app to only show the ebooks for those who want that. Then those who want that could use Vyrso app for reading ebooks and Logos app for reading others. 

The need is in both the Vyrso & Logos 4 apps, more so for Logos 4. I trust Logos will work out a clean solution.


I'm with Ted and Jacob.  They should be in Logos 4.

 

I tag all vyrso books as trade - so I don't forget the resource is a not a full logos resource and lacks full tagging

If I want to search whole library, I have a collection that includes everything except bibles.  With vyrso books I don't want search I simply tag them as ebook and can them exclude resources with that tag from this collection. 

Dealing with them on the Logos 4 side is just a matter of thinking through library management.

With the Logos / Vyrso apps I think isssues will be resolved by being able to both tagging and collections for searches which is not currently possible.   I wouldn't want a blanket exclusion of resource types from either app.  Like some others I use vyrso just for general reading purposes.

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spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2011 3:59 PM

alabama24:

NewbieMick:
Huh? Works fine on Windows:

Just going off what Halo Hound said:

 

Halo Hound:
That doesn't work in L4 PC version. Wish it did.

I wonder if he meant Android?

Nope, I meant PC. I figured out what it was. I'm not running the latest service release on this computer I'm sure this and one other issue I am having will be fixed once the update is installed.

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2011 4:50 PM

Andrew McKenzie:

I tag all vyrso books as trade - so I don't forget the resource is a not a full logos resource and lacks full tagging

Vyrso books are already tagged as ebook (actually that's done through a new field called edition, but the function is the same)

Jacob Hantla
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2011 8:40 PM

Halo Hound:

Patrick S.:
They can't be removed from Logos 4 while they are being indexed. Also will their content still stay in the Logos 4 indices or will it be removed?

I'm not sure, but if you want to make sure you have a clean index type "rebuild Index" in the command line and let it run overnight.

You have to rebuild index to completely get rid of hidden books (if you temporarily hide a book there is no expensive indexing when you unhide!).

Dave
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toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 8:01 AM

Patrick S.:

It gets worse — all titles you buy on Vryso website end up in your Logos Bible Software. Now that's ok if it is a respected theological treatise, but do you really want to see Gigi's pretty pink thoughts coming up in your (cough) scholarly Logos searches??

Patrick, adding Vyrso ebooks into common library with Logos is by design. There are very good reasons for it.  But even in our paper libraries, we do not keep novels together with cookbooks or theological volumes - we use separate bookshelves for them. I admit, this is one area where it is a LITTLE easier to organize paper books than electronic.  But there is a solution called "collections" as many pointed out so well.  You can create a dynamic collection by going Tools>Collections and simply typing "ebook" in your "Start with resources matching" search field - name the resulting collection anything you want.

Creating Theology, Counseling, Bible Manners and Customs, etc collections will not only speed up your searches, but will give you more relevant results. Note, Author's collections (such as Spurgeon's or Calvin's writings are automatically done for you by Logos).

Patrick S.:
I've tested this (not with 'There's a Princess in Me' !!) I just bought a John MacArthur title in Vyrso and it got pulled into Logos 4. Yeah you can put the book in the 'hidden resources' box in Logos, but do we really want to be bothered having to do that?? No.

I am not quite sure how "hiding" a resource in Logos will affect its availability in Vyrso reader.  I assume it will be unavailable as well.  Hiding a resource should not be a big deal (actually, even seeing Gigi come up in one of my "full library" searches on "grace" is not a big deal to me.  I can simply ignore that search result.  Now, if I was presenting something really serious before scholarly audience...) HOWEVER Logos made it a HUGE deal by only allowing users to hide one book at a time. Had they made it more convenient, it would be a non-issue.

Robert Ellis:

I purchased some new books today in my ipad 

then signed in to vyrso but the list of books was buried my by my logos books

Logos should really address the User Interface of their libraries in both Logos and Vyrso.  They are really lagging behind the usability curve. My suggestion is to sort the library by type (ebook) or by latest downloaded.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 8:50 AM

I haven't tried this, but can't those who intend to buy a lot of cook books and childrens' books and definitely want their Logos and Vyrso libraries separate simply open a separate account to buy such books from? (Think first, though! Logos is definitely not going to be happy if they start getting loads of requests to merge accounts or move individual books from one account to another!)

That said, I would very much want the ability to (just like naming something My Passage Guide automatically makes it the default PG) tag things as Hidden and thereby have them automatically excluded from collections, searches and the Library view. And then a simple check box in Library to turn the filter on and off. (Actually I already have a lot of things tagged as Hidden, but currently I have to manually twist search strings when I want to exclude them.)

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 11:34 PM

Dave Hooton:

You have to rebuild index to completely get rid of hidden books (if you temporarily hide a book there is no expensive indexing when you unhide!).

AAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!

Every time Logos downloads (you have no choice) and indexes (you have no choice) every title bought from Vyrso that you don't want in Logos and you want to clean up your index you need to do a total rebuild?!? Yeah right — great (not).

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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Robert Ellis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 2 2011 11:39 PM

yep 

Having bought my first 5 books - I am kinda on hold until they tidy this up 

which I am sure they will do

I had to laugh at the idea of recipes or the story of the pink princess ending up in logos

Rob

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 3 2011 12:04 AM

Patrick S.:

It gets worse — all titles you buy on Vryso website end up in your Logos Bible Software. Now that's ok if it is a respected theological treatise, but do you really want to see Gigi's pretty pink thoughts coming up in your (cough) scholarly Logos searches??

I've tested this (not with 'There's a Princess in Me' !!) I just bought a John MacArthur title in Vyrso and it got pulled into Logos 4. Yeah you can put the book in the 'hidden resources' box in Logos, but do we really want to be bothered having to do that?? No.

Thanks to everyone who has commented and offered suggestions on this issue.

I'm reasonably competent with Logos and I'm aware of the technical possibilities regarding collections and filters etc. etc. and I have no problem whatsoever having titles bought in Vyrso appear in my Logos 4 application — if I want them there. I want to have, and be able to make, the choice — me.

Here's the thing:

  1. Most of the people who are saying this will be primarily buying scholarly (as in matching Logos) titles. They won't have a problem.
  2. There is now situation where we have two 'bookshops' for scholarly titles — Logos.com & Vyrso.com — there are good titles on Vyrso that are not available on Logos. What's the logic determining which bookshop a title is sold in? Not that I care in one sense — as long as I can easily add, up front, to Logos 4 only what I want.
  3. If one uses filters like "not ebook" in searches in Logos then ALL Vyrso titles will be excluded — excellent theological titles as well as 'pretty princess'.
  4. I don't want to be forced to use collections to restrict/filter books in Logos just to get valid content. I've paid big money to get a library that has the distilled knowledge, life experience and spirituality of thousands of persons over more than 2,000+ years. If I am doing an initial type of query I WANT to see results from every book & author. What's the point of restricting (in this case) searches to collections of authors you like. That's like only accepting input from people you like and/or are familiar with. What's the benefit in that!
  5. I can just see the untechnical user Pastor/Dr/Prof Vagueness using Logos and doing a query like "exercise power princess" and coming up with all sorts of weird titles. Then they'll be on the Logos 4 forums in a flash. Logos 4 has enough problems already... to get decent performance people have to magically know not to do things like text comparisons on complete Bible books, jumpy scrolling etc. etc.

It's great that we have Vyrso — organise it so that it is a plus, not a pain.

 

p.s. FYI other Bible software can do multiple version Bible text comparisons of the whole Bible at once without raising a sweat.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 3 2011 5:56 AM

I can see your point and I agree with you. with the addition of Vyrso there should be additional tools to help manage our Library. New users should not be expected to know that if you need to type ebook to filter vyrso resources.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 3 2011 6:29 AM

Jacob Hantla:

Easy solution for Logos 4 is to make collections to allow you search keeping your Vyrso and non-Vyrso books separate

Vyrso books:

Non-Vyrso books

 

Then a search of your non-Vyrso books would just look like this:

Also, you can limit by collections when searching in Logos for iOS, so these collections could help you.

 

Personally, since my vyrso books are all theological, I can't see any reason why I'd use these collections, but for those who are asking about how to keep them separate, this seems like an easy solution to me. 

I think, the problem is not with Vyrso versus non-Vyrso but with the content of the book. This is something that's not adressed to a deep enough level by the Logos-supplied metadata. I have tagged "the Facade" and "Hood" with a tag "fiction" and thus now have a collection "fiction" and another one "non-fiction" which is my entire library minus the "fiction" collection. 

Thus, due to the dynamic nature of collections, should Logos release the "Complete works of C.S.Lewis" bundle, I can tag the Narnia-books as fiction and they won't clog up a search for "Lion". It would be nice if the tagging was auto-supplied by Logos, but I think I can handle that without employing a librarian.

 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 3 2011 6:41 AM

NewbieMick:
It would be nice if the tagging was auto-supplied by Logos, but I think I can handle that without employing a librarian.

Think of the economy, man! Big Smile

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 3 2011 7:27 AM

alabama24:

NewbieMick:
It would be nice if the tagging was auto-supplied by Logos, but I think I can handle that without employing a librarian.

Think of the economy, man! Big Smile

That's what Kevin does: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/38954/291227.aspx#291227 - in my case it would be the German economy, anyway Beer

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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