facing a bloat problem
I am very thankful to Logos for all of the electronic titles that I am fortunate to have, index, search and read. However, especially with Perseus collection being shipped right now and thousands of books coming via Vyrso channel, we (logos customers) are facing a huge UI deficiency in Library view. A cold and sterile "excel" like table just won't cut it with thousands of titles. A "picture" view of book covers is only a little better.
What I would like to see:
- a page that looks like a bookshelf. Only if I want to, I would switch it to the spreadsheet view.
- a few of dynamically generated categories/collections such a "last downloaded" or "last read" that would be just 1 click away, and not several as it currently stands. This would alleviate issues of users who download a couple of Vyrso books, which get drowned in Logos library.
- "Hiding" books must be moved to the Library view and away from "Program Settings." Users must be allowed to select multiple resources at the same time and hide them (I am not a programmer, but I think it is done by a single binary switch "display/hide" and as such would be very easy to implement). I ordered Perseus collection as well as hundreds of other books that came in bundles, which I have no immediate use for. Can you imagine how long it would take to hide Perseus one title at a time? Can you imagine the processor resources expended to index all of the unnecessary books over a lifetime (and on multiple computers)? Why hasn't this issue given more design thought? Why this was put on the back burner is beyond me.
- Logos could even create "people who bought what you have also purchased
..." or "you bought qqq, you may also be interested in QQQ" categories.
what do you think?
Comments
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Vladimir Lukyanov said:
what do you think?
Before Perseus I had about 2400 books. That's not really manageable either, unless you begin using the power of "My Tags." My Tags help organize and view relevant books easily.
Look at this wiki article for help on tagging: http://wiki.logos.com/Tagging
Really, it's worth it, and with a little effort it does make even the largest library quite manageable.
EDIT: I'm not suggesting anything about your other suggestions. I do like the idea of putting an option in Library view to hide books (although the effort to do this through settings, does make it harder to do this accidentally).
BTW, there is a "Last Updated" category (not quite "Last Downloaded" which would be different).
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard, thank you for your reply.
I am well aware of mytags. I have Portfolio and many other collections that I purchased on top of that. There is no way a library of this size (I am not bragging, I know for a fact that there are others who have Logos libraries much bigger than mine) can be managed without mytags and custom collections.
However, mytags can be linked to an accelerator pedal and "hiding" unnecessary resources as the brake pedal. No amount of acceleration can substitute braking ability and visa versa. We NEED (not just want) both and have them well designed.
Richard, you suggested going to the Library, scroll to the "Last Updated" column, sort it, and then click on a resource. How many clicks is that? It could very easily be made into 1 click. Companies like Apple position themselves with best in class products because they put cool user-friendly design as one of the first priorities and not as afterthought.
By the way, "hidden" books should be removed from user's computer and index, but info about the book should be present in the Library view (maybe greyed out), so the user could get them back at any time.
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Your suggestions sound better and better as you continue to describe what you're after. (Though I don't particularly like Apple's 'user friendly' design.)
Why not put this in the suggestions forum?
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Agree that 'Hidden Resources' in the Settings doesn't make a lot of sense; belongs somewhere in the Library window.
Also, one by one putting resources in 'Hidden'??? That's going to be a pain with Perseus.
Anything that would make the library more intuitive and easier to manage would be good. I never dreamed my library would get much beyond the OL package.
Early on Mark built his visual-library view; I copied mine into an RTF, and it's a whole lot easier to keep track of what I have (especially to remember!).
I'd guess the present approach originated as you say from a spreadsheet concept.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I've really had this problem when using the Android app--on-line library navigation is like moving the ocean with a spoon.
On the desktop, I've got much more screen real estate, but the available views haven't kept up with long-term logos users' library growth. Concur w/OP.
I use Logos nearly daily, but spend nearly no time on behind-the-scenes mgt tasks--which in part is why I like L4 much more than L3. I've done some tagging, but mostly just to define what I want to read & what I have read.
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Vladimir Lukyanov said:
"Hiding" books must be moved to the Library view and away from "Program Settings." Users must be allowed to select multiple resources at the same time and hide them
This was reluctantly provided during initial beta testing in 2009 and the request to hide multiple books at a time came almost immediately! It's time to allow hiding via multiple selection in Library + a view to show hidden resources and allow unhiding.
Vladimir Lukyanov said:a few of dynamically generated categories/collections such a "last downloaded" or "last read" that would be just 1 click away, and not several as it currently stands. This would alleviate issues of users who download a couple of Vyrso books, which get drowned in Logos library.
Much of the functionality was driven by Logos' "analysis" that too many options/menus increases complexity for users and Logos Support! But it is time to re-assess this in light of the vast increase of resources available and the different markets that Vyrso and Personal Books (PB) represent e.g. menu options to show only Logos, Vyrso or PB's. Also allow Collections to be viewed similarly to Series. Apart from that manipulating the columns or typing tag values is OK.
"last read" is a click away if you keep History open!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Vladimir Lukyanov said:
By the way, "hidden" books should be removed from user's computer and index, but info about the book should be present in the Library view (maybe greyed out), so the user could get them back at any time.
Hidden books are removed from the Resources folder when you restart L4, but removing them from the Index requires a costly re-index (several hours). The current system allows you to unhide "at any time" without indexing, so it is better to manually re-index when you have completely finished hiding.
BTW re-indexing does not provide a significant performance improvement, but it might save a few hundred MB of hard drive space.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
it is time to re-assess this in light of the vast increase of resources available and the different markets that Vyrso and Personal Books (PB) represent e.g. menu options to show only Logos, Vyrso or PB's.
There is this ability to some extent and it should provide a work-around for the time being. Just a current observation
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Dave Hooton said:
BTW re-indexing does not provide a significant performance improvement, but it might save a few hundred MB of hard drive space.
I was talking about a situation in the future when we add resources that would trigger index rebuild. Why index unnecessary resources over and over and over and over...?
What about if a user buys a collection and can only use 50% of it. By Logos' own admission, that is their modus operandi. They make a deal with publishers (similar to music industry in years past) to include books that otherwise would not sell on their own into massive collections and give sers a huge discount. I actually like this system from a business standpoint, because such collection can attract a larger audience, users get a "perceived" value, publishers get sales volume and Logos gets to broaden their base. However, with such a collection Logos' design is that all of it must be downloaded, indexed and then 50% of resources manually hidden and re-indexed again? That is not only inefficient, it is a bad design.
EDIT: could it be possible to select multiple resources in Library, right click and chose "never to index" option? The more I am using L4 I am more and more convinced that indexing should be triggered manually. It is too disruptive when indexing starts when one is studying. This is why Logos provided the "pause indexing" option.
My paradigm would be that resources get automatically downloaded into the Library view, from which you could immediately hide it or index on demand. An even better option for huge collections would be downloading JUST the metadata of all resources into the Library, where you can sort, select multiple resources for downloading/ hiding/ indexing, etc.
Another related idea is to have 1 master switch, which would toggle "novice"/"advanced" options. Make novice options fully automated, but give advanced users advanced capabilities.
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Vladimir Lukyanov said:Dave Hooton said:
BTW re-indexing does not provide a significant performance improvement, but it might save a few hundred MB of hard drive space.
I was talking about a situation in the future when we add resources that would trigger index rebuild.
The context for my remark was your comment that hidden books should be removed from the index as this requires a rebuild.
When you add resources the individual resources are indexed and then merged into the main index, which is significantly faster than a rebuild (minutes vs. hours). This has been happening since v4.2a (March 2011). Since then a rebuild will only be triggered by a software change (see Indexing in http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4.2a).
Vladimir Lukyanov said:My paradigm would be that resources get automatically downloaded into the Library view, from which you could immediately hide it or index on demand. An even better option for huge collections would be downloading JUST the metadata of all resources into the Library, where you can sort, select multiple resources for downloading/ hiding/ indexing, etc.
There is always some baggage with base Library packages and I think the same holds for Perseus! But it is very personal and I do not think there is any advantage in what you propose given that Logos already allow us to hide resources and hopefully will make that function much easier. Overnight downloading and indexing is easy to automate and then you know the resources are ready for use. I could cheerfully hide 100+ resources but it is only the 70 Earliest NT Manuscripts that annoy with their presence in Bible drop-downs! If there was any performance hit I would have already hidden them.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I guess the key is to constantly manage your library (with each download), by tagging, creating collections, hiding resources. Then it will be quite doable.
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Logos User Voice suggestion => Ability to filter the library by collections currently ranked # 10 with 411 votes.
Looking at a resource, wish for collection(s) containing resource. With Canonical Commentary Collections, have some resources in ~ 40 collections (one volume commentaries).
Other Logos 4 library item missing from Libronix 3 is "about this resource" licensing information (know which base package included this resource).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Vladimir Lukyanov said:
I guess the key is to constantly manage your library (with each download), by tagging, creating collections, hiding resources. Then it will be quite doable.
This just sounds painful.
I think I will hire a librarian and help the economy get stronger. Lot of those out of work in my county due to school cutbacks.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Vladimir Lukyanov said:
I guess the key is to constantly
manage your library (with each download), by tagging, creating
collections, hiding resources. Then it will be quite doable.Yes!
Very doable and the easiest way to go! This is how I manage my 2200
resource collection that is soon to be expanded with all of Pegasus.
Also I keep collections to a minimum. Tagging books makes a virtual
collection of those with identical tags so you do not need to build collections for them.. These virtual collections can
be specified in searches and the guides.About the only time I
use collections is to group several tags to give me a superset. I tag at
a subset level then "collect" them into supersets.Collections
built by looking for words in the book title, are to me, defective. You
cannot know what a book is about without at least scanning the table of
contents and probably doing some spot reading especially in the front
matter. Based on title who would ever guess that "Be Worshipful" is a
commentary on the Book of Psalms. Since you have to open a book to know
what it is about you might as well go ahead and tag it. You are already
there and it is easy to do.Yes, I will tag each resource in the Pegasus collection. Some I may be able to do in groups but much of it will be done one at a time. If I go at it for 15 to 20 minutes a day I think I will be done in less than a month.
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Frank Fenby said:
Yes, I will tag each resource in the Pegasus collection. Some I may be able to do in groups but much of it will be done one at a time. If I go at it for 15 to 20 minutes a day I think I will be done in less than a month.
This is yet another reason Logos needs to address the Library functionality and allow us to share mytags, collections, etc.
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Vladimir Lukyanov said:
"Hiding" books must be moved to the Library view and away from "Program Settings."
Makes much more sense. [Y] +1
Vladimir Lukyanov said:Users must be allowed to select multiple resources at the same time and hide them
[Y] +1
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
I appreciate the feedback, and we'll look at improving library management.
In the past we've had users hide books and then forget they hid them, then call customer service and want to know where they are, etc. Our experience was that hiding books just caused a lot of frustration, so we made it something that's more intentional -- especially since it removes the book from your hard drive and the index. We're reluctant to put that into the library, where it would be easy to do, and quite a bit more trouble to undo.
Why do you want to hide so many books? To unclutter the library view? To free up space? Speed indexing? Are you "permanently" hiding them -- what the current feature is really designed for -- or just getting them out of the way? Would you prefer an "archive" feature that was somehow less intense than hiding them? (Moves them out of searches but makes them available in an "Archive" collection in the Library?)
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Bob Pritchett said:
Why do you want to hide so many books? To unclutter the library view? To free up space? Speed indexing? Are you "permanently" hiding them -- what the current feature is really designed for -- or just getting them out of the way? Would you prefer an "archive" feature that was somehow less intense than hiding them? (Moves them out of searches but makes them available in an "Archive" collection in the Library?)
I don't know about others, but I hide books which I have received with others (usually in base packages) which I have no desire to own. I have kept some which really don't interest me very much, but I don't particularly dislike them enough to hide them. I may eventually find that I want something I previously thought I would never want (such as Oswald Chambers or In His Steps), but should that happen, I would check the list of "hidden" resources and "unhide" it. What is so difficult about that?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Archive would definitely be good.
Quite a few resources I have I definitely want but would like to keep them in a basement until needed.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Bob Pritchett said:
Would you prefer an "archive" feature that was somehow less intense than hiding them? (Moves them out of searches but makes them available in an "Archive" collection in the Library?)
That misses the point of "hiding" that was given 2 years ago! They are resources I wouldn't use --> don't want to read, don't have content that would be useful in a Search or Clipping or Notes, etc. If I wanted just to exclude content from a Search I can do that easily enough.
Bob Pritchett said:Why do you want to hide so many books? To unclutter the library view? To free up space? Speed indexing?
There is some "baggage" in base Libraries and collections as explained above. "So many" is a reflection of what was purchased that I won't use!
Bob Pritchett said:We're reluctant to put that into the library, where it would be easy to do, and quite a bit more trouble to undo.
There have been many requests to make it easy to do over the last 2 years, especially as there is no feedback (in Library) after dropping a resource into the "Hide" bucket.. Having an option to "View" hidden resources in Library would be the best way to retain visibility of what is hidden e.g. showing Title, Type and Series would be easy to do as the information is still retained.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Bob Pritchett said:
Would you prefer an "archive" feature that was somehow less intense than hiding them? (Moves them out of searches but makes them available in an "Archive" collection in the Library?)
That would be just about perfect, Bob. If the library view grayed out the resources that we neither wanted in the index nor as search hits. Sweet!
"I read dead people..."
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Bob Pritchett said:
In the past we've had users hide books and then forget they hid them, then call customer service and want to know where they are, etc. Our experience was that hiding books just caused a lot of frustration, so we made it something that's more intentional -- especially since it removes the book from your hard drive and the index. We're reluctant to put that into the library, where it would be easy to do, and quite a bit more trouble to undo.
Sometimes a modal dialog might be a good thing. If you remind the users what they are doing when they hide books with a confirm dialog, instead of giving no confirmation at all (like it is now), then maybe it would head off the problems you describe.
Bob Pritchett said:Why do you want to hide so many books? To unclutter the library view? To free up space? Speed indexing? Are you "permanently" hiding them -- what the current feature is really designed for -- or just getting them out of the way? Would you prefer an "archive" feature that was somehow less intense than hiding them? (Moves them out of searches but makes them available in an "Archive", collection in the Library?)
Yes to all. I currently have nearly 700 books "permanently" hidden, some of which were received in base package collections (books that I've tried to find value in but couldn't), and then there are the duplicate, inferior versions of resources that I had two versions of (like Calvin's commentaries and ECF). I can see myself doubling or tripling that, now that I have Perseus, but the Perseus resources would be fit into your idea of "archive", which I think is a good idea.
I still beg beg beg for easier hiding and unhiding though via multiple selection. (Plus it would be good to have a filter on the hidden book list so we can search it for titles like the library.)
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Brother Mark said:
If the library view grayed out the resources that we neither wanted in the index
They would still be in the index, though. It's like creating a collection called "Hidden" and then Search would look at all resources except for those in the "Hidden" collection. You can do that easily enough by tagging or rating those resources so they are never included in a Collection e.g. type:commentary rating:>1
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Brother Mark said:Bob Pritchett said:
Would you prefer an "archive" feature that was somehow less intense than hiding them? (Moves them out of searches but makes them available in an "Archive" collection in the Library?)
That would be just about perfect, Bob. If the library view grayed out the resources that we neither wanted in the index nor as search hits. Sweet!
Wonder about expanding Library Edition to include Hidden ? display with grey lines, ideally with Library option to not show Hidden resources: choose to show all usable resources vis show all licensed resources (similar to search "Match case" or "Match all word forms")
Adding a Library pseudo column for collection(s) would be appreciated.
Wish for Logos 4 Library License column to show which license(s) include this resource.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Bob Pritchett said:
Why do you want to hide so many books? To unclutter the library view? To free up space? Speed indexing? Are you "permanently" hiding them -- what the current feature is really designed for -- or just getting them out of the way? Would you prefer an "archive" feature that was somehow less intense than hiding them? (Moves them out of searches but makes them available in an "Archive" collection in the Library?)
I really appreciate your reply. I "hide" books that I want permanently gone, books (most of them came in base packages) that I know that I would never use. So the answer to why I want to hide books is all three:
- to unclutter the Library View
- to free up space
- to speed all future indexing
Others, like some in Perseus collection I would like to archive for a while (these can be greyed out, but still displayed in the Library). I would be content with the current system of hiding resources under Program Settings if you gave us power to select multiple resources to hide/unhide them.
Vladimir
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I hide the resources that came with the base package that are of little use to me and manuscripts (papyrus etc) in languages that I don't know. Some I expect to convert back to active if I actually learn the language sufficiently.
Why do I feel a need to hide them?
- being required to search entire library in order to view My Content
- the abundance of unwanted search results when trying to access articles by specific authors or searching for certain articles/essays in journals and anthologies
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Bob Pritchett said:
Why do you want to hide so many books? To unclutter the library view? To free up space? Speed indexing? Are you "permanently" hiding them -- what the current feature is really designed for -- or just getting them out of the way? Would you prefer an "archive" feature that was somehow less intense than hiding them? (Moves them out of searches but makes them available in an "Archive" collection in the Library?)
Thanks, Bob, for asking. There are books that came in collections that I just don't want, not now or ever![:)] But another major reason I hide books is that I do have resources that are in a language that presently I do not know, but intend to study. I ordered these books, as I got a super price on Pre-pub and really couldn't afford to miss the opportunity, but are really useless at the present time. It don't want these books to clutter my library, as it is quite large; nor do I want these books to slow down my efforts when I do searches.
It would be great to archive them, if that would take them out of the "active" Library as well as take them out of being indexed and showing up in my searches.
Bob Pritchett said:In the past we've had users hide books and then forget they hid them, then call customer service and want to know where they are, etc. Our experience was that hiding books just caused a lot of frustration, so we made it something that's more intentional -- especially since it removes the book from your hard drive and the index. We're reluctant to put that into the library, where it would be easy to do, and quite a bit more trouble to undo.
I know you said that you've had trouble with customers wanting to know where their books were, once they have hidden them. Could this possibly be taken care of by somehow informing them better of how the library is set up? I know that when I use my Kindle, I can have my books listed on my device (Kindle) or if I choose to remove it from my Kindle, it is still "mine" and I can alway download it again, but there is a certain process that I have to go through. My Kindle books are all listed at my account at Amazon and so I know what books I have purchased. Perhaps if the customers were better educated, knowing that "hiding" a book, means deleting it from your "device" (computer) and that if you want it listed again, you have to "unhide" (redownload) the book? However, at any point in time, they can go to their Logos account to see what books are listed.
Just my thoughts...thanks again for asking!
Charlene
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Charlene said:Bob Pritchett said:
Why do you want to hide so many books? To unclutter the library view? To free up space? Speed indexing? Are you "permanently" hiding them -- what the current feature is really designed for -- or just getting them out of the way? Would you prefer an "archive" feature that was somehow less intense than hiding them? (Moves them out of searches but makes them available in an "Archive" collection in the Library?)
Thanks, Bob, for asking. There are books that came in collections that I just don't want, not now or ever!
But another major reason I hide books is that I do have resources that are in a language that presently I do not know, but intend to study. I ordered these books, as I got a super price on Pre-pub and really couldn't afford to miss the opportunity, but are really useless at the present time. It don't want these books to clutter my library, as it is quite large; nor do I want these books to slow down my efforts when I do searches.This is why I am hiding books as well. As I don't have a base package, there is only a small number (such as bibles from SESB) in languges I don't speak. I try to refrain from buying or downloading resources I think I won't use in the foreseeable future, thus I choose to not order the Civil War things from the Perseus offer.
Charlene said:Perhaps if the customers were better educated, knowing that "hiding" a book, means deleting it from your "device" (computer) and that if you want it listed again, you have to "unhide" (redownload) the book? However, at any point in time, they can go to their Logos account to see what books are listed.
Educating users about the "hiding" functionality (which doesn't hide, but deletes the resource) is surely a good idea. However, your idea of having the list of licenced resources would require Logos to show in our accounts all the books we have, including the 3rd party ones.
Mick
Have joy in the Lord!
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Bob Pritchett said:
Why do you want to hide so many books?
I permanently hide books that are:
- In a language that I don't understand (e.g. Norwegian Bibles)
- Duplicates of a resource that has since been updated (e.g. my AGES set of Calvin Commentaries)
- Libronix 3 Help Files (e.g. Baker Digital Reference Library Overview Guide)
- Resources that are identical in all practical ways to other resources (e.g. BHS SESB 2.0)
- Resources that are more trouble than they're worth (e.g. NASB Concordance, which is useless electronically, and annoyingly shows up at the top of almost all search results).
I don't hide bad books (of which I have plenty) just in case they surprise me one day. Instead, I 1-star these books and can easily filter them out of searches if they ever become a problem.
The most useful things you could do, IMO:
- Not to create an archive option (that would get confusing to have hidden and archive, and hidden is more important).
- Add a collections filter to the library view, and have the setting remembered. That would allow users to create a collection that hid 1-star books, or non-English books, for example, and not see them in the library. But it would also be very useful anyway - there's often cases when I want to just look at my Systematic Theologies, for example, and I ought to be able to do that through Library, not just through Collections.
- While you're at it, make the divider between library and Prioritize re-sizeable. Or, even better, more Prioritize into a separate tab and give it its own entry on the tools menu.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
The most useful things you could do, IMO:
- Add a collections filter to the library view, and have the setting remembered. That would allow users to create a collection that hid 1-star books, or non-English books, for example, and not see them in the library. But it would also be very useful anyway - there's often cases when I want to just look at my Systematic Theologies, for example, and I ought to be able to do that through Library, not just through Collections.
[Y] [Y] [Y]
Have joy in the Lord!
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Mark Barnes said:
The most useful things you could do, IMO:
- Not to create an archive option (that would get confusing to have hidden and archive, and hidden is more important).
- Add a collections filter to the library view, and have the setting remembered. That would allow users to create a collection that hid 1-star books, or non-English books, for example, and not see them in the library. But it would also be very useful anyway - there's often cases when I want to just look at my Systematic Theologies, for example, and I ought to be able to do that through Library, not just through Collections.
- While you're at it, make the divider between library and Prioritize re-sizeable. Or, even better, more Prioritize into a separate tab and give it its own entry on the tools menu.
Add:
- provide headings for the prioritization groups - Bible, Bible commentary, English dictionaries, Lectionaries etc. ... a heading for each group we might want to prioritize
- show the collections to which a resource belongs in the library view
- allow "my content" to be usable as if it were a collection
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Same hereGeorge Somsel said:I don't know about others, but I hide books which I have received with others (usually in base packages) which I have no desire to own.
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MJ. Smith said:Mark Barnes said:
The most useful things you could do, IMO:
- Not to create an archive option (that would get confusing to have hidden and archive, and hidden is more important).
- Add a collections filter to the library view, and have the setting remembered. That would allow users to create a collection that hid 1-star books, or non-English books, for example, and not see them in the library. But it would also be very useful anyway - there's often cases when I want to just look at my Systematic Theologies, for example, and I ought to be able to do that through Library, not just through Collections.
- While you're at it, make the divider between library and Prioritize re-sizeable. Or, even better, more Prioritize into a separate tab and give it its own entry on the tools menu.
Add:
- provide headings for the prioritization groups - Bible, Bible commentary, English dictionaries, Lectionaries etc. ... a heading for each group we might want to prioritize
- show the collections to which a resource belongs in the library view
- allow "my content" to be usable as if it were a collection
Yes to both Mark and Martha suggestions. [Y]
Bohuslav
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Am I the only one who feels that the current hiding should be called archiving, and hiding should be ... well hiding a book?
My COED dictionary in Logos says that an archive is:
▶ a complete record of the data in part or all of a computer system, stored on a less frequently used medium.
"Hiding" resources now is actually archiving our resource licenses if/until we need them at a later date. It is counterintuitive to take "hiding resources" to mean "delete from my computer." That is just not how the word is used anywhere else.Personally I would love to have "hidden" resources which reside on my computer, are indexed, but when I view my library they are not visible by default. I think having a library which looks & functions similar to iTunes would be ideal. I know that some of this is there now, but a cleaner UI would be nice.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
alabama24 said:
Personally I would love to have "hidden" resources which reside on my computer, are indexed, but when I view my library they are not visible by default. I think having a library which looks & functions similar to iTunes would be ideal. I know that some of this is there now, but a cleaner UI would be nice.So you like Bob's "archiving" suggestion?
I go along with the UI suggestion but my "hidden books" are not on the computer; not available to be used in any way, nor shown in any drop-down.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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alabama24 said:
Am I the only one who feels that the current hiding should be called archiving, and hiding should be ... well hiding a book?
[Y]
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Dave Hooton said:
So you like Bob's "archiving" suggestion?
I go along with the UI suggestion but my "hidden books" are not on the computer; not available to be used in any way, nor shown in any drop-down.
Dave -
First, I think that using "hiding" as a term for removing books from your computer is counterintuitive. You aren't hiding the books at all, you are getting rid of them! A better term for this procedure would be archiving. Secondly, I agree that finding books should be made as easy as possible. I don't like the current library interface at all. Third, I would like the ability to hide some books, but keep them on my computer. I would like these books to show up in results, perhaps in a collapsed section.
I think that I can anticipate at least one of Bob's arguments against some of these suggestions. One of the useful features of Logos is doing searches and discovering information in new resources. I might think that I would never use "resource X", only to find a gem in it months or years later. If the average user starts removing large amounts of books from his/her computer, they will be missing out on a significant benefit of this software. I also think that some of this discussion is short sighted in this sense: some of the desire to remove resources is to speed things up (indexing, searches, etc). As technology rapidly continues to improve, however, this will be less of an issue.
In my case, however, I would want to either archive or hide (using my definitions of those words) resources which are less useful to me. I am not strong in biblical languages, so I may want to archive some of those resources (meaning that I keep the license, but remove it from my system). Other resources may be ones which I choose to utilize less often so I don't want to see them all the time, yet I understand that there may still be value in them at a later date. These are the ones I would want to hide. In a way, my use of "hide" is kind of like a reverse prioritization. When I prioritize something, I want it to show up more often. When I hide something, I want it to show up less.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Bob Pritchett said:
In the past we've had users hide books and then forget they hid them, then call customer service and want to know where they are, etc.
Bob,
Maybe a way to reduce this problem and save Logos money in support costs, is to increase the functionality of the "You do not have this resource, but you could" panel. If a user clicks on a resource that they have hidden then give them a panel that says "You have this resource, but have chosen to hide it. If you want to have access to that resource again click here." Now do the "unhide" form them and tell them to restart Logos.
I know this means keeping a list table of hidden resources on the user's computer, but that should not take much space.
In my experience with users, they seldom have problems with disk space. Indexing speed is only a minor issue since we got incremental indexing. The clutter in the library view is the main issue. Followed by seemingly endless search results. When I am working with pastors to help them share God's Word with their people they need many of the tools in the larger packages, but most of them will never read the papyri directly or the targums. The first thing I have them do is hide these things. It would be nice to do this task in 2 minutes in stead of it taking the best part of an hour! We need a way to hide many items in a single move.
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Frank Fenby said:
In my experience with users, they seldom have problems with disk space. Indexing speed is only a minor issue since we got incremental indexing. The clutter in the library view is the main issue. Followed by seemingly endless search results. When I am working with pastors to help them share God's Word with their people they need many of the tools in the larger packages, but most of them will never read the papyri directly or the targums. The first thing I have them do is hide these things. It would be nice to do this task in 2 minutes in stead of it taking the best part of an hour! We need a way to hide many items in a single move.
[Y] [Y]
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Dave Hooton said:Bob Pritchett said:
Why do you want to hide so many books? To unclutter the library view? To free up space? Speed indexing?
There is some "baggage" in base Libraries and collections as explained above. "So many" is a reflection of what was purchased that I won't use!
Just to clarify this:
- c.68x Targumic Fragments (bibles)
- 70x Earliest NT Greek Manuscripts (bibles)
- 1 x LXX from L3/L2
- 2 x NA27 from L3/L2
- 8x Syriac & Latin bibles + lexicons
- 1x Spanish bible
- 6x duplicate/obsolete resources
- 2x old BHS versions
- 4 x L3 Guides
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Frank Fenby said:
I know this means keeping a list table of hidden resources on the user's computer, but that should not take much space.
Resource information is still kept; they are just tagged as N/A!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Well, Mr Hooton, it's become eminently obvious why our CP papyri, targums, syriac and latin don't seem to be getting any interest. Everyone's HIDING them!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Dave Hooton said:
Resource information is still kept; they are just tagged as N/A!
Well, that should make informing the user that they hid the resource that much easier.
Hey, Bob! Can we have this "feature?" [:P] I really think it should save you $.
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Denise Barnhart said:
Well, Mr Hooton, it's become eminently obvious why our CP papyri, targums, syriac and latin don't seem to be getting any interest. Everyone's HIDING them!
Sorry, I'm just not into studying fragments[;)]
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I wanted a collection of my books just to browse that didn't include the Perseus books since I will have collections on them. So I rated everything in my library with two stars before the Perseus collections came. Others may have used tags for this purpose. I also wanted to omit commentaries, targums etc. So I used this syntax to make a collection. It is not perfect (perhaps someone has a better one), but I quickly came up with this. This brings the collection down to about a thousand resources, which is more or less a manageable number to browse.
rating:2 ANDNOT commentaries, targum, earliest, semeia, horae
(Or you could just keep your syntax in a note and copy and paste it into your library search window when you want to browse.)
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
Wiki Table of Contents0 -
Jerry M said:
rating:2 ANDNOT commentaries, targum, earliest, semeia, horae
Surely there would be something in Subjects or Publisher that would identify Perseus? If not I would tag (My Tags) them as Perseus i.e. rating:<2, Select All, press Information and apply the tag. Then use rating as intended.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Then use rating as intended.
Yes, I agree. In fact there are probably several ways to accomplish this. Once again without giving it much thought or going to the wiki, this syntax accomplishes pretty much the same thing. (I never really used rating much)
edition:logos,user,eBooks ANDNOT commentaries,targum,earliest, semeia, horae, perseus
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
Wiki Table of Contents0 -
Dave Hooton said:
Surely there would be something in Subjects or Publisher that would identify Perseus?
Wiki => http://wiki.logos.com/Example_Collections (with Thanks to Mark Smith => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/39076/291963.aspx#291963 for collection rule example) includes:
Perseus
- Library Size: 4,096
- Collection Size: 1,743 Perseus has 825 English, 654 Greek, & 264 Latin
- Rule: Publisher:Perseus
- Manually Included Items: none
- Manually Excluded Items: none
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Bob Pritchett said:
we'll look at improving library management.
Bob,
now that the Perseus is being shipped can you give us an estimate when we can "hide" books by selecting multiple resources at once? I agree that keeping Greek resources can improve our word study, but for me, I am "hiding" Latin ones.
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