Is it worth studying Greek?

What's troubling about your point George (and I agree) is that Matthew quoted Jesus mainly from the LXX but for his own quotes, mainly used the hebrew.

 If one can't find the original language of the speakers, what validity (beyond claims) is there in 'autographs'.

Denise Barnhart said:

What's troubling about your point George (and I agree) is that Matthew quoted Jesus mainly from the LXX but for his own quotes, mainly used the hebrew.

[:D] Would you be positing that God is more concerned with reaching the lost than sticking to one "official" language? [:D]

There has to be a reason the other three Gospels were not using any Hebrew. Could it be Matthew was writing to a Jewish audience? Could it be the Vatican knew what they were doing when they allowed mass to be said in the vernacular? Could it be Wycliffe Bible Translators are on to something big translating directly from the original into the target language? Could it be people do not have to learn 1611 English or Koine Greek or Aramaic or Hebrew to read God's Word? Finally, could it be nobody has to get circumcised and keep the Mosaic Law to become a Christian? Whoa!!!

Alex Trabec told me to put it in the form of a question.

“Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.” (Matthew 13:10–13, ESV)

Only by the mercy and grace of God do any of us know truth.  The Pharisees knew Hebrew and missed their messiah.  By grace through faith I am a child of God and I don’t know Greek.  My mom then became a child of God and she doesn’t know Greek.  My mom’s mom then became a child of God and she didn’t know Greek.

By God’s grace, in the Holy Spirit’s power and for His glory I preach the Word of God for the truth that it is.  Greek tools have helped me understand the text better.  Standing on the shoulders of others has helped.  But the fact remains;  The Word of God is the Word of God and the job of illumination of the truth belongs to the Holy Spirit.  He who has an ear let him hear.

Now, just to be clear I’m grateful and thank God for those that He has called to really understand scripture in the original languages, the original contexts and have a heart and a passion to do the study and research.  I’m thankful for those who can defend truth and the Bible.  This is important and helpful to the body.  But, I humbly submit to you that while we all need (and desire) to serve Christ as one body we still individually follow Jesus.  What Jesus leads me to do is different (same Spirit, different calling) than what He leads you to do.

I say all of this to encourage anyone out there who God is leading to any ministry.  Don’t let the world’s system dictate what path you take.  Follow Jesus.  One does not need a doctorate to preach the Word of God.  To preach the Word one needs to follow Jesus.  Follow Him in His leading to brothers that will sharpen you, provide accountability, encourage you, pray for you and provide Godly wisdom as you pursue after Christ in your calling.  And be sure of this; God is in control and in that pursuit God may or may not send you to seminary, and He may or may not have you study Greek and/or Hebrew; but by grace and through faith He will give you everything you need to serve Him for His glory.

Grace, peace, joy and love to you all, Fred

Quote of the day:

Richard DeRuiter said:

knowing Greek is a very useful tool. It is also useful for refuting those who use Greek badly --

ROGER JIMENEZ said:

"The New Testament frequently cites the Old, from centuries before. Now whenever people base on an ancient text, for a comprehension of their drift it matters little what that text means or, to put it more humbly, what we suppose it to mean; the key lies in what it means to them, which may be quite different." Is more, I guess, a stuff of priorities or hierarchy or stress in the importance of studying the Greek.

I would agree that Hebrew is important, as well as Greek.  However, you can't get to the Hebrew mindset behind the Greek unless you first understand the Greek in which the New Testament was written.  It was afterall written in Greek by people fluent enough in Greek to write it.  Their culture had been influenced by the Greek language for 200 years.  It is not just a matter of the Hebrew concepts behind the Greek words - which is important - but the Greek grammar used to express it.  If you don't know what the Greek says, you sure aren't going to know what's behind it.

In addition, the Greek LXX is one of the most important tools to understand how the Jews understood the Old Testament.  The LXX is far more important than most realize.  It was the Bible of Jesus and the Apostles.

Apparently God must have thought Greek important since the New Testament is written in it.

Again, many never the privilege to study Greek.  But to have the privilege and waste it means that the Bible is NOT important to you.  I stand by that conviction.

Sarel Slabbert said:

I studied both Hebrew and Greek and I do not think that every Christian must be able to read these languages

I would agree — as far as the statement goes.  I would say, however, that anyone attempting to function as a minister/priest in a Christian church should be required to learn the languages.  For a seminary to fail to require this or to fail to ascertain that a student has achieved a working knowledge of the languages is neglect of duty.  It is perfectly acceptable for those who hold no official position in the churches to not understand them, but those who hold office in the church should know what they're talking about.

Super Tramp said:

I have my opinion on whether it is better to have an unqualified leader or no leader at all. But some churches will "settle" for less than ideal pastors. They have done this practice with deacons or elders for many decades.  I think it has something to do with their level of respect for the duties of their pastor. With Logos Bible software coming on the scene in my lifetime, maybe it will help every Christian become a Bible student.

Part of the problem is that emphasis gets placed on absolute doctrinal correctness rather than the ability to read and understand the original texts.  What are the most popular works published by Logos?  I think you will find that they are theology (systematic) and sermons.  The emphasis is upon conforming to the status quo in doctrine rather than being able to interpret the scriptures.  Yet, supposedly Protestant churches are founded on fidelity to the scriptures while this tendency puts the lie to that notion.

George Somsel said:

would agree — as far as the statement goes.  I would say, however, that anyone attempting to function as a minister/priest in a Christian church should be required to learn the languages.  For a seminary to fail to require this or to fail to ascertain that a student has achieved a working knowledge of the languages is neglect of duty.  It is perfectly acceptable for those who hold no official position in the churches to not understand them, but those who hold office in the church should know what they're talking about.

Well said, George.

Have you tried using another grammar? I find with any language that using another grammar will help cement things which other grammars were weak on. Personally I think Mounce's book focuses too much on learning Greek as a set of rules and not enough as a language. Why not try Athenaze or Greek: An Intensive Course - both very different approaches but the former uses stories at the Greek level of the reader, and the latter lays everything out and then builds on this knowledge with copious examples and exercises. Another set of textbooks I highly recommend are John Taylor's (Greek to GCSE 1 and 2, Greek Unseen Translation, and Greek Beyond GCSE) - these helped my Greek a lot, and took very difficult concepts and made them natural and understandable. I do think, unfortunately, that either Taylor or Athenaze need supplementing with something like Greek: An Intensive Course; however, having started out with Mounce in a NT Greek class before moving on to Classical Greek, I really do doubt anyone could become familiar with Greek as a language by using it. But the seminaries seem stuck on it. All the books recommended are Classical Greek, which has the advantage of being a little more difficult than NT Greek, and thus making the latter easier. 

I understand Don, it is a lot of mental effort, though I still think Athenaze or Taylor would be a great help - don't let the word 'Classical' put you off - these text books build very slowly, are are designed for High School age students, and they are easier (and far more enjoyable) to use. You could get a basic handle on Greek, or at least feel much more at ease with it, while (in the case of Athenaze) picking up some Greek history and customs via the storyline, or, with Taylor, being exposed to modified and simplified readings from Plato, Herodotus etc. Anyway, I'll leave it there and won't push it further. Libraries often have Athenaze. I just think that having grammatical explanations illustrated by numerous examples and readings is the way to learn a language (and I learned that the hard way after spending far too much time learning and forgetting grammar using other textbooks like Groton).

Donald G. Fisher said:

Dean,

I appreciate the tip but at this stage in my life, I am not sure I have the mental energy or capacity to do that.  I did purchase on Pre-Pub the Greek/Hebrew videos from Logos which shows how to do different things with the languages.  I am also not sure this would give the best return on my time investment.  If I were still in my 30's that would be different.  From what I envision my future ministry in the church at this stage in my life, I plan on keeping current on what is happening in theology and church movements as well as personally growing in my depth of the Scriptures.  Everytime I commit to buckling down on Greek it really wears me down and I soon forget what I have learned.  Blessings,

Don

I'll bet you spend much of your time in which you are working on Greek in reading grammars and in memorizing words and paradigms.  Stop it.  Read, read, read.  And when you have done that, read some more.  I think reading will fix it in your mind more than attempting to memorize unrelated material.

George Somsel said:

I'll bet you spend much of your time in which you are working on Greek in reading grammars and in memorizing words and paradigms.  Stop it.  Read, read, read.  And when you have done that, read some more.  I think reading will fix it in your mind more than attempting to memorize unrelated material.

George is giving great advice!  Something that has helped me is to pick out a favorite verses and memorize it in Greek.  Try to learn one a week.