Why you should consider the Catholic Library Builder, now.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Oct 25 2011 3:44 PM

If you think in sets you may be having a problem wrapping your mind around the value of the Catholic Library Builder $395.50. I broke down the mega list into collections to facilitate easier comparisons. If you already have a base package this is the resource to consider. If you are a new customer looking at your first purchase see these two packages: 1) The Catholic Scripture Study Library   $415.95    and    2) The Catholic Scholar's Library  $669.95.

 

Premium Collections and titles included:

This is content that is not presently available for individual purchase on Logos.com:

    •    The Cambridge Paragraph Bible of the Authorized English Version    
    •    Kinship by Covenant
    •    Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary, vol. 1
    •    Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary, vol. 2
    •    A History of the Councils of the Church: From the Original Documents, vol. 1
    •    A History of the Councils of the Church: From the Original Documents, vol. 2
    •    A History of the Councils of the Church: From the Original Documents, vol. 3
    •    A History of the Councils of the Church: From the Original Documents, vol. 4
    •    A History of the Councils of the Church: From the Original Documents, vol. 5
    •    An Exposition of the Gospels of Matthew and Mark
    •    An Exposition of the Gospel of Luke
    •    An Exposition of the Gospel of John
    •    An Exposition of the Epistles Pauline and Catholic, vol. 1
    •    An Exposition of the Epistles Pauline and Catholic, vol. 2
    •    A Practical Commentary on Holy Scripture
    •    Outlines of Jewish History
    •    Outlines of the Life of Our Lord
    •    Outlines of New Testament History
    •    General Introduction to the Study of the Holy Scriptures
    •    Pictorial Lives of the Saints
    •    Saint Anselm's Book of Meditations and Prayers

Bibles you may already have in a base package:

You can see it does not take very many resources to transform this deal into a "gotta have" There are many good collections that should interest non-Catholics as well. Check out the contents for yourself. The special pricing ends November 15th. Payment plans are available as low $39 a month. If you already purchased some of the high priced resources, give Customer Service a call to see if they can save you a little. *the special is already discounted heavily. Don't miss out!

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Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 25 2011 6:50 PM

FYI Nova Vulgata: Bibliorum Sacrorum Editio is on PrePub and is not part of a base package.

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2011 3:28 PM

The Douay-Rheims Bible is still the version revised by Richard Challoner

What is the difference between the Early Church Fathers Special Catholic Edition and the other version?

Might buy this set just to get the works of the Venerable Bede (Quoted often in the notes on the non Challoner version of the Douay-Rheims)

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2011 4:45 PM

David Ames:
Might buy this set just to get the works of the Venerable Bede (Quoted often in the notes on the non Challoner version of the Douay-Rheims)

You can buy that separately if it is the only resource you are after.   Works of the Venerable Bede (3 vols.)  I find many in addition to that highly useful.


 Someone should correct me if I am wrong but it is my understanding the Catholic Edition is the original content of the Church Fathers and nothing additional. The other edition ("Protestant", non-Catholic", "regular", or "common" ) contains all the content of the Catholic Edition and added footnotes, etc. by the translator.

Can you please explain to me the significance of the included Douay-Rheims  Challoner revision? Why does it matter? And is it a good or not-so-good thing?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2011 4:47 PM

David Ames:
What is the difference between the Early Church Fathers Special Catholic Edition and the other version?

The Catholic version lacks the (denominational) commentary of the Protestant version.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2011 4:51 PM

MJ. Smith:

David Ames:
What is the difference between the Early Church Fathers Special Catholic Edition and the other version?

The Catholic version lacks the (denominational) commentary of the Protestant version.

Big Smile I like my way of saying it better:   " it is the original contentBig Smile

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2011 4:53 PM

Super Tramp:
Can you please explain to me the significance of the included Douay-Rheims  Challoner revision? Why does it matter? And is it a good or not-so-good thing?

In general when people think D-R they mean the Challoner revision. The Rheims NT (1582) and the Douay OT (1609/1610) used a very heavily Latinate vocabulary. Challoner revised it to a more Anglicized vocabulary in the mid-1700's.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2011 4:59 PM

Super Tramp:
Big Smile I like my way of saying it better:   " it is the original contentBig Smile

Migne is the original contentWink

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2011 5:01 PM

MJ. Smith:
In general when people think D-R they mean the Challoner revision. The Rheims NT (1582) and the Douay OT (1609/1610) used a very heavily Latinate vocabulary. Challoner revised it to a more Anglicized vocabulary in the mid-1700's.

Wouldn't that be considered a good thing by most readers? Or are there actually some who prefer the first edition? I have always been curious about the issue of saying Mass in Latin or the vernacular. I don't think that in any way compares to the KJV-Only issue in Protestant circles.

I like reading about different theological interpretations. I am rarely in agreement with any extreme views but I usually find a reason some hold to those views. I like to understand others if I can.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2011 5:12 PM

MJ. Smith:

Super Tramp:
Big Smile I like my way of saying it better:   " it is the original contentBig Smile

Migne is the original contentWink

OK, but I was thinking of the actual Church Fathers themselves. (Not just the dead guys, but the older dead guys.) We don't really have all the Patristic material in English.

Patrologia Cursus Completus, Series Graeca, Part 1 (vols. 1-18)

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2011 5:30 PM

Super Tramp:
Wouldn't that be considered a good thing by most readers? Or are there actually some who prefer the first edition?

I've not run into anyone preferring the original - not to say they don't exist. The issue you are more apt to run into are translations that vary from the Vulgate.

Super Tramp:
I have always been curious about the issue of saying Mass in Latin or the vernacular.

First, Mass has never been limited to Latin. The Maronite Catholics, for example, have "always" used Syriac.The advantage of using a common liturgical language (Latin, Greek, Syriac, Armenian,  ...) is that clergy and laity can go anywhere in the world and participate in worship and prayer. Even if you don't travel, knowing that people are at all times, all over the world worshiping as you worship provides a sense of unity that can be very helpful in difficult times. The disadvantages are obvious - the need of education to make the service understood. What has happened historically is a mix of languages:

  • in the movement from Aramaic to Greek the "Alleluia" and "Amen" remained in Aramaic and the tetragrammaton remained "banned"
  • in the movement from Greek to Latin the "Kyrie" prayer remained in Greek
  • in the movement from Latin to English frequently the "Agnus Dei" remains in Latin

This is a sloppy abridgment of history but accurate enough to make the point.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2011 6:44 PM

MJ. Smith:

Super Tramp:
 are there actually some who prefer the first edition?

I've not run into anyone preferring the original - not to say they don't exist.

“Put your money where your mouth is”  Old saying

Your Order from Logos.com Order Number: 1223xxx Catholic Library Builder (238 vols.) SKU 100561
[Yes, I did find more than just the one book and it is going to take 8 Months to pay for it]

Re Rheims New Testament of Anno Domini 1582 and Douay Old Testament of Anno Domini 1609.    I like it.   It is a full study Bible with LOTS of very Catholic notes.  The version in Logos has no notes.  And is said to read like the KJV.  [[Where it count both versions read the same to a dynamic equivalence level as far as I have had the time to compare the two – have entered into PBB, the bible text and Comments for Gen 1 - 3, Ex 20, Dan 1 – 14 [yes, fourteen], Matt, Mark, and working on Luke.  Text done also for John and Acts (Adding comments is a little slow) – Thank you for @BibleDR [Daniel was lots of fun till Someone told about that method of handling verse numbers] and PBB]]  [copyright restriction prevent me from sharing it - sorry]

But then MJ. Smith and I have not 'run into' except here on the forums.  [Thanks again to her and Super Tramp for many posts and comments]

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Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2011 6:54 PM

The only thing that I don't have but would want from that list is John Meier's 4 volume set of "A Marginal Jew". I own the first book in this series (as a hardback book) and it was very interesting and well written. I would like to see what he has to say in the other three books.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2011 9:48 PM

The Haddock commentary that frequently comes with the Challoner edition are in the package - I'd started the source for a PBB before I'd seen this. A sample of a Catholic 1859 Study Bible:

John i.

Notes & Commentary:

Ver. 1. In the beginning was the word:[1] or rather, the word was in the beginning. The eternal word, the increated[uncreated?] wisdom, the second Person of the blessed Trinity, the only begotten Son of the Father, as he is here called (ver. 14.) of the same nature and substance, and the same God, with the Father and Holy Ghost. This word was always; so that it was never true to say, he was not, as the Arians blasphemed. This word was in the beginning. Some, by the beginning, expound the Father himself, in whom he was always. Others give this plain and obvious sense, that the word, or the Son of God, was, when all other things began to have a being; he never began, but was from all eternity. --- And the word was with God; i.e. was with the Father; and as it is said, (ver. 18) in the bosom of the Father; which implies, that he is indeed a distinct person, but the same in nature and substance with the Father and the Holy Ghost. This is repeated again in the second verse, as repetitions are very frequent in St. John. --- And the word was God. This without question is the construction; where, according to the letter we read, and God was the word. (Witham) --- The Greek for the word is Logos, which signifies not only the exterior word, but also the interior word, or thought; and in this latter sense it is taken here. (Bible de Vence) --- Philo Judæus, in the apostolic age, uses the word Logos, p. 823, to personify the wisdom and the power of God. Logos estin eikon Theou di ou sumpas o Kosmos edemiourgeito. By a similar metonymy, Jesus Christ is called the way, the truth, the life, the resurrection. --- And the word was God. Here the eternity and the divinity of the second Person are incontrovertibly established; or, we must say that language has no longer a fixed meaning, and that it is impossible to establish any point whatever from the words of Scripture. (Haydock)

Ver. 2. The same was in the beginning with God. In the text is only, "this was in the beginning;" but the sense and construction certainly is, this word was in the beginning. (Witham)

Ver. 3. All things were made by him,[2] and without him was made nothing that was made. These words teach us, that all created being, visible, or invisible on earth, every thing that ever was made, or began to be, were made, produced, and created by this eternal word, or by the Son of God. The same is truly said of the Holy Ghost; all creatures being equally produced, created, and preserved by the three divine Persons as, by their proper, principal, and efficient cause, in the same manner, and by the same action: not by the Son, in any manner inferior to the Father; nor as if the Son produced things only ministerially, and acted only as the minister, and instrument of the Father, as the Arians pretended. In this sublime mystery of one God and three distinct Persons, if we consider the eternal processions, and personal proprieties, the Father is the first Person, but not by any priority of time, or of dignity; all the three divine Persons being eternal, or co-eternal, equal in all perfections, being one in nature, in substance, in power, in majesty: in a word, one and the same God. The Father in no other sense is called the first Person, but because he proceeds from none, or from no other person: and the eternal Son is the second Person begotten, and proceeding from him, the Father, from all eternity, proceeds now, and shall proceed from him for all eternity; as we believe that the third divine Person, the Holy Ghost, always proceeded without any beginning, doth now proceed, and shall proceed for ever, both from the Father and the Son. But when we consider and speak of any creatures, of any thing that was made, or had a beginning, all things were equally created in time, and are equally preserved, no less by the Son, and by the Holy Ghost, than by the Father. For this reason St. John tells us again in this chapter, (ver. 10.) that the world was made by the word. And our Saviour himself (John v. 19.) tells us, that whatsoever the Father doth, these things also in like manner, or in the same manner, the Son doth. Again the apostle, (Hebrews i. ver. 2.) speaking of the Son, says, the world was made by him: and in the same chapter, (ver. 10.) he applies to the Son these words, (Psalm ci. 26.) And thou, O Lord, in the beginning didst found the earth: and the heavens are the works of thy hands, &c. To omit other places, St. Paul again, writing to the Colossians, (Chap. i. ver. 16, 17.) and speaking of God's beloved Son, as may be seen in that chapter, says, that in him all things were created, visible and invisible---all things were created in him, and by him, or, as it is in the Greek, unto him, and for him; to shew that the Son was not only the efficient cause, the Maker and Creator of all things, but also the last end of all. Which is also confirmed by the following words: And he is before all, and all things subsist in him, or consist in him; as in the Rheims and Protestant translations. I have, therefore, in this third verse, translated, all things were made by him, with all English translations and paraphrases, whether made by Catholics or Protestants; and not all things were made through him, lest through should seem to carry with it a different and a diminishing signification; or as if, in the creation of the world, the eternal word, or the Son of God, produced things only ministerially, and, in a manner, inferior to the Father, as the Arians and Eunomians pretended; against whom, on this very account, wrote St. Basil, lib. de spiritu Sto. St. Chrysostom, and St. Cyril, on this very verse; where they expressly undertake to shew that the Greek text in this verse no ways favours these heretics. The Arians, and now the Socinians, who deny the Son to be true God, or that the word God applies as properly to him as to the Father, but would have him called God, that is, a nominal god, in an inferior and improper sense; as when Moses called the god of Pharao; (Exodus vii. 1.) or as men in authority are called gods; (Psalm lxxxi. 6.) pretend, after Origen, to find another difference in the Greek text; as if, when mention is made of the Father, he is styled the God; but that the Son is only called God, or a God. This objection St. Chrysostom, St. Cyril, and others, have shewn to be groundless: that pretended significant Greek article being several times omitted, when the word God is applied to God the Father; and being found in other places, when the Son of God is called God. See this objection fully and clearly answered by the author of a short book, published in the year 1729, against Dr. Clark and Mr. Whiston, p. 64, and seq. (Witham) --- Were made, &c. Mauduit here represents the word: ---"1. As a cause, or principle, acting extraneously from himself upon the void space, in order to give a being to all creatures:" whereas there was no void space before the creation. Ante omnia Deus erat solus, ipse sibi et mundus et locus, et omnia. (Tertullian, lib. cont. Prax. chap. v.) And St. Augustine in Psalm cxxii. says: antequam faceret Deus Sanctos, ubi habitabat? In se habitabat, apud se habitabat. --- The creation of all things, visible and invisible, was the work of the whole blessed Trinity; but the Scriptures generally attribute it to the word; because wisdom, reason, and intelligence, which are the attributes of the Son, are displayed most in it. (Calmet) --- What wonderful tergiversations the Arians used to avoid the evidence of this text, we see in St. Augustine, lib. iii. de doct. Christ. chap. 2; even such as modern dissenters do, to avoid the evidence of This is my Body, concerning the blessed Eucharist. (Bristow)

Ver. 4. In him: i.e. in this word, or Son of God, was life; because he gives life to every living creature. Or, as Maldonatus expounds it, because he is the author of grace, which is the spiritual life of our souls. --- And the life was the light of men, whether we expound it of a rational soul and understanding, which he gives to all men; or of the spiritual life, and those lights of graces, which he gives to Christians. (Witham)

Ver. 5. And the light shineth, or did shine, in darkness. Many understand this, that the light of reason, which God gave to every one, might have brought them to the knowledge of God by the visible effects of his Providence in this world: but the darkness did not comprehend it, because men, blinded by their passions, would not attend to the light of reason. Or we may again understand it, with Maldonatus, of the lights of grace, against which obstinate sinners wilfully shut their eyes. (Witham)

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 27 2011 4:02 PM

Ok, Have added John 1 from Rheims New Testament of Anno Domini 1582    John 1:1-5 to match prior posting

1 IN the beginning, was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and God was the WORD.

2 This was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him: and without him was made ‘nothing’. That which was made,
4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men:
5 And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Chapter 1 Introduction: 
The preface of the Evangelist, commending Christ (as being God the Son Incarnate) to the Gentiles, and setting out the blindness of the Jews in not receiving him. 19. Then, the testimony of John Baptist, first to the solemn legacy of the Jews: 29. secondly, when he saw JESUS come to him: 35. thirdly, to his own Disciples also, passing them over from himself to JESUS. Who made it plainer to them that he is Christ, 40. and so began he also to have Disciples.

 John 1:1
The 1st part: THE ACTS of Christ before his manifestation whiles John Baptist was yet baptizing.

 John 1:1
The Gospel at the third Mass upon Christmas day. And every day at the end of Mass.

 John 1:1
1. Was the Word.] The second Person in Trinity which is the natural, only, and eternal Son of God the Father, is called the WORD: not as the holy Scriptures or speeches of the Prophets and Apostles (written and spoken by God's commandment for the uttering of his divine will towards man) be called his word, but in a more divine, eminent, and ineffable sort, to express unto us in a sort, by a term agreeable to our capacity, that the Son of God so is, and so from everlasting is born of God the Father, as our prime concept (which is our internal and mental word) is and issueth out of our intelligence and mind. This WORD then, Son, or second Person in the Holy Trinity, was and had his being then already, when other creatures (of what sort so ever) had but their beginning, and therefore cannot be a creature, as many Heretics before the writing of this Gospel thought, and as the Arians after taught. And this first sentence of the Gospel not only the faithful, but the Platonics did so admire (as St. Augustine writeth) that they wished it to be written in gold. 
[How God the Son is called the WORD]  
[Augustine de Civ. Dei. li. 10 c. 29]   
[The Platonics]   

 John 1:1
1. With God.] Because a man might say, if the WORD were before anything was created, where or how could he be? the Evangelist preventing that carnal concept, saith first, that he was with God, whose being dependeth not upon time, place, space, or any other creatures, all which were made by him. Secondly, he giveth us to understand, that the WORD hath his proper subsistence or personality distinct from God the Father, whereby Sabellius the old Heretic is refuted. Thirdly, here in insinuated the order of these two persons, one towards the other, to wit, that the Son is with and of the Father, and not the Father of the Son. Fourthly, you may confute here the blasphemy of Calvin, holding the second Person to be God, not as of God the Father, but as of himself. And yet such are the books that our youth now read commonly in England, and that by commandment. 
[The WORD coeternal with the Father, distinct in person, and of the Father]
[Calvin Inst. li. 1 c. 13. sect. 23 and 35.]

 John 1:1
1. God was the Word.] Lest any man upon the premises, which set forth the relation and distinction of the second Person from the first, might think that the Father only were God, the Evangelist expressly teacheth, the WORD to be God. For though the words seem to lie otherwise (because we have of purpose so owed the elegance which the Evangelist himself observed in placing them so, and therefore they stand so both in Greek and Latin) yet in deed the construction is thus, The WORD was God, and (as in his first Epistle the same Apostle writeth) true God: lest any might say (as the Arians did) that he was God in deed, but not truly and naturally, but by common adoption or calling, as good men in the Church be called the sons of God. What wonderful wrangling and tergiversation the Arians used to avoid the evidence of this place, we see in St. Augustine li. 3 de Doct. Christ. c. 2. even such as the Protestants do, to avoid the like words, This is my body, concerning the Blessed Sacrament
[The WORD true God by nature]
[The Protestants are like the wrangling Arians]

 John 1:3
3. By him.] Again, by this he signifieth the eternity, divinity, omnipotence, and equality of the WORD or son, with God the Father, because by him all things were created. All things he saith, both visible of this world: and invisible, as Angels and all spiritual creatures. Whereupon it is evident also, that himself is no creature, being the creator of all: neither is sin of his creation, being a defect of a thing, rather than a thing itself, and therefore neither of nor by him. 
[The WORD not a creature but the creator.] 


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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 27 2011 5:31 PM

thank you David

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 27 2011 5:46 PM

Joshua Garcia:
The only thing that I don't have but would want from that list is John Meier's 4 volume set of "A Marginal Jew".

Do you not find Raymond Brown's writings of interest? Or do you already have them?

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