Suggestions for Word Study and Search

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Posts 579
Caleb S. | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Oct 26 2011 2:24 PM

I am doing a Word Study on a Hebrew word and what I find absolutely annoying is that there is NO option to see the Greek words that is used for said Hebrew word. So, say I study chesed in Hebrew. I can see where it shows up in the Hebrew bible, the definition of the Lemma, Example Uses, etc. But no option for the LXX Greek word used for it. So, I have to do a morph search. Then I click “Verses”. But another problem arises. I can’t just look at the search and find which one is used in the LXX without going to the passage itself and highlighting the Hebrew word with the LXX in Greek open. I would love for two things to be added: 1) I would like for Word Study to include the option to see what Greek words are used for the Hebrew and where. When I do a Greek word study I can see how it is used in the LXX and for what Hebrew word. I would like to it the other way: going from the Hebrew in the Hebrew Bible to the Greek word used for that Hebrew word in the LXX and where. and 2) I would like it that when I do a search for a word in the Bible (whether Bible, Morph or Syntax) that when I am in verses and I use multiple other language bibles (say I am searching the Hebrew Bible and I open up the LXX as another translation). So I would like for the Greek word that coincides with the Hebrew word I am searching for (which is already highlighted to be highlighted as well. The Screenshot shows the morph search of the Hebrew morph search and the Hebrew highlighted, with the Greek LXX on the right. I would like for the Greek word in the LXX that coincides with the Hebrew word to be highlighted as well. I think it would also be nice for there to be a Greek to Hebrew or Hebrew to Greek interlinear (Hebrew bible to LXX or vice versa or both). So there are three ideas here. I hope they made sense.

 

Posts 5899
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 30 2011 6:53 PM

Agree this should be there..... not sure if this works in MAC version, but on Windows as a work around i add a second translation section to BWS report and change it to display LXX.

 

 

Posts 579
Caleb S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 30 2011 9:23 PM

I just tried that and it gave me what I wanted. I did not think of this. I would like it to NOT close the extra translation every time I do a new word search, or that it was just there automatically for Hebrew to Lxx, it would make things faster and easier....just my opinion.

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2011 4:04 AM

Caleb S.:

I just tried that and it gave me what I wanted. I did not think of this. I would like it to NOT close the extra translation every time I do a new word search, or that it was just there automatically for Hebrew to Lxx, it would make things faster and easier....just my opinion.

You can get what you want by making a custom word study guide for the Old Testament and the New Testament.  With the Word study guide open click on the resource panel (upper left icon) and click on edit guide template.  For the Old Testament guide you want a translation section for the Logos LXX and in the New Testament guide a section called Septuagint Translation.  You can follow the example below and customize it if you to add or delete sections.  Click on to enlarge.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 769
Alan Charles Gielczyk | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2011 5:57 AM

I caution you to be very careful when using this kind of information. The LXX was translated from Hebrew to Greek, therefor it can give insight as to the way Greek was used at the time, however, it does not give any insight as to how the Hebrew was used and could be very dangerous and lead one into eisegesis if too much emphasis is placed on the results one finds from doing this.

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2011 6:21 AM

Alan Charles Gielczyk:

I caution you to be very careful when using this kind of information. The LXX was translated from Hebrew to Greek, therefor it can give insight as to the way Greek was used at the time, however, it does not give any insight as to how the Hebrew was used and could be very dangerous and lead one into eisegesis if to much emphasis is placed on the results one finds from doing this.

I agree, I am not a language scholar but have ran into examples where the LXX interprets rather that translates.  For example translating the expression "sons of God" as angels in Job 1:6 .

 

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 579
Caleb S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2011 11:18 AM

I am in the process of becoming a Bible Scholar (I plan on going on for a few masters and even MAYBE a PH.D), so I am well aware of the issues of going from the Hebrew to Greek, since there are interpretations in the Greek. I know that we get this translation from the Greek and not the Hebrew of Psalm 23:6: “And I shall dwell in the house of the LORD forever.” The BHS has “I shall return to the house of the LORD all the days of my life.” There are many other instances of such interpretations. All I am doing is wanting to see what Greek words are used for a single Hebrew word. I know to be careful. But thanks for the concern.

Posts 33780
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2011 12:11 PM

Jerry M:
have ran into examples where the LXX interprets rather that translates.

All translation is interpretation.
Hans-Georg Gadamer (1900–2002) (Gadamer, 1989, p. 384)

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2011 3:10 PM

MJ. Smith:

Jerry M:
have ran into examples where the LXX interprets rather that translates.

All translation is interpretation.
Hans-Georg Gadamer (1900–2002) (Gadamer, 1989, p. 384)

Ah yes.  Even communication within the same language requires interpretation.  I interpret your remark with the intent to make a point.  Point well taken.  I was suggesting that perhaps the LXX translators used angelos to translate the Hebrew word when that Hebrew word never otherwise carries that nuance and did so because of preconceived ideas about who the characters were in the story. But you knew that already.  

Disclaimer: I haven't actually thoroughly investigated this suggested claim about the use of angelos.

 

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2011 3:45 PM

All you need to do is to open Tov's The Parallel Aligned Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Texts of Jewish Scripture. Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2003 and go through the various passages.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2011 3:50 PM

Jerry M:
Disclaimer: I haven't actually thoroughly investigated this suggested claim about the use of angelos.

The Greek word ἄγγελος can mean either "angel" or "messenger" depending on the context.  See, e.g., Lk 7.24 for its use as "messenger."

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2011 4:18 PM

George, in a little time you will persuade me to become a language scholar.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2011 4:24 PM

Of course, before forming an opinion on whether the LXX 'interprets' or just 'translates', one should first consider that the translators may simply have been translating from another manuscript than the one that was preserved in the MT.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2011 4:35 PM

Jerry M:

George, in a little time you will persuade me to become a language scholar.

A very good Agrippan statement

 

ὁ δὲ Ἀγρίππας πρὸς τὸν Παῦλον· ἐν ὀλίγῳ με πείθεις Χριστιανὸν ποιῆσαι.” (Acts 26:28, NA27)

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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