Why Notes on Passage Guide et. al.

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Chris Elford | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 3:49 PM

Philip,

Further reflection. Are you able to add a note to a word in an exegetical or custom guide and have the note show everytime you run a guide with a word by word section that includes that word? Or if you run a guide with a word by word section in a guide on an overlapping passage, does it show the note?

I tried it and it doesn't for me. So, unless I run the very same guide, which appears in My Content in a guide on an overlapping section, I can't find the note. If I can't remember where it was that I put a certain note, it's basically lost and useless, isn't it?

So, I don't know how your idea works -- but that is probably very evident by this post.

Chris

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spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 10 2009 8:31 PM

Chris Elford:

Philip,

Further reflection. Are you able to add a note to a word in an exegetical or custom guide and have the note show everytime you run a guide with a word by word section that includes that word? Or if you run a guide with a word by word section in a guide on an overlapping passage, does it show the note?

I tried it and it doesn't for me. So, unless I run the very same guide, which appears in My Content in a guide on an overlapping section, I can't find the note. If I can't remember where it was that I put a certain note, it's basically lost and useless, isn't it?

So, I don't know how your idea works -- but that is probably very evident by this post.

Chris

That's a very good question and I'm glad you asked because it made me rethink things a little bit. I never thought about how to have notes appear every time you reference a word. So here is how I would work it. record your notes about the word in general on the Bible Word Study Guide. That way these notes are available anytime you look up information about that word. Record notes related specifically to how the word interacts with the text on the Exegetical guide Word for Word section. For more in-depth analysis of the word just click on  the word in the Word for Word section and wala, your notes are there. I would use the passage guide note sections for recording links to other Library resources outside of commentaries, or for adding additional cross references, Or Additional hymns that fit the passage, etc. In my mind, this is all very useful and if you had some visual way while reading the Bible to indicate that a guide existed for the passage you were reading...it would all be golden. The effort you put into developing those guides is not lost, but bears fruit a year down the road when you don't have to re-create the guide, but rather pick up where you left off.

Posts 45
Vivian Matheson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 7:35 AM

I tried that this morning.  It was great to jot down my thoughts right there – it was not great to have them disappear before I could do anything with them!  Are they to be found somewhere else? 

Maybe I'll find my answer if I keep reading...

 

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 9:24 AM

Your notes disappeared from your passage guide?  Or your passage guide disappeared?

 By the way, notes in a passage guide is probably not the best solution for long-term storage...notes would be this. But the passage guide note taking area is best for comments which resources are good for what...Notes on the research process, not the research itself.

IF you lost the passage guide notes by closing the passage guide, run the passage guide again and the old one will appear under "My Content"

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

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spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:13 AM

Jacob Hantla:
 By the way, notes in a passage guide is probably not the best solution for long-term storage

What is your primary reason for saying this, usability, portability, or something else?

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:45 AM

Philip Spitzer:

Jacob Hantla:
 By the way, notes in a passage guide is probably not the best solution for long-term storage

What is your primary reason for saying this, usability, portability, or something else?

For me, it's because the note files will probably have a better longevity (i.e. better chance of being supported in future releases years from now). Also, note files appear linked to the text, so they are easier to find later. In notes, there are more formatting options making note taking there a better option. Finally, writing a super long note in a note file is expected; writing a super-long note file in the comments section of a passage guide will make the passage guide even longer and more unwieldly. 

But I do love the notes on the passage guide because it lets me quickly comment on which commentary takes which view. Which is helpful. Which I may want to read down the road. I like being able to star certain resources. These are all things that are likely specific only to the study process on that passage and not on that passage itself. Therefore, to keep them in the passage guide makes a lot of sense. 

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 12:39 PM

Jacob Hantla:
For me, it's because the note files will probably have a better longevity (i.e. better chance of being supported in future releases years from now). Also, note files appear linked to the text, so they are easier to find later. In notes, there are more formatting options making note taking there a better option. Finally, writing a super long note in a note file is expected; writing a super-long note file in the comments section of a passage guide will make the passage guide even longer and more unwieldly. 

I understand why you are avoiding them, but do not necessarily agree. I have no knowledge of the probability of long term support but I suspect that the same storage structure is behind all the notes - passage guide notes are simply a subset of notes against a span of verses. Because I use My Content as my primary search mechanism, I find more of my notes than if I use the Bible marking - because I pick up the larger units that overlap my text, even if they start considerably earlier.

I use content as the primary determiner of whether I place a note in a note file or in the passage guide. I wish I were able to put multiple notes on a passage guide section and expand/contract those notes as applicable to a current issue.

 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 228
Bruce Junkermann | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 9 2010 7:17 PM

Philip or Jacob or anyone else, I'm exploring your ideas of using the notes section in the ExG.  But I'm having a problem.  I run an ExG on a verse X, make notes on a word Y, close the guide.  Later I go back to the ExG on verse X and the notes are there.  I then add more notes to word Y, close the guide.  Later open the guide and the updating I did isn't there.  Can you help me?

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spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2010 2:18 AM

MJ. Smith:
I use content as the primary determiner of whether I place a note in a note file or in the passage guide. I wish I were able to put multiple notes on a passage guide section and expand/contract those notes as applicable to a current issue.

I wish we could have sections we could designate strictly as note sections that we could name.  I would use this by creating a note section in a passage guide, naming it "Outline" and creating an outline of the passage, or a sermon outline.

One thing that may help people who want formatting in the guide notes is to create your note in a word processor such as Word and then copy paste it to the guide. for the most part it does a decent job and you can include hyperlinks this way. An "Edit in Word/Import from Word feature would be pretty cool.

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spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2010 2:19 AM

BruceJunkermann:
I then add more notes to word Y, close the guide.  Later open the guide and the updating I did isn't there.  Can you help me?

I've never had this problem, but I haven't looked for it either. I'll keep a watch out for it.

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2010 5:34 AM

Philip Spitzer:

Kevin A. Purcell:

But those notes will be assigned to the Passage Guide and not the passage won't they. Wouldn't you have to go back to that Passage Guide?

Yes. But I'm hoping for something like this in the future, which would essentially attach the note, and whole passage guide to the passage....

Brilliant, Philip! I really like that design. I might have said it before, but I wish you were working for Logos in user interface design.Smile

Jacob Hantla:

Kevin A. Purcell:

But those notes will be assigned to the Passage Guide and not the passage won't they. Wouldn't you have to go back to that Passage Guide?

I do this, but in another program attaching the notes to the verse.

Yes you would. The passage guide will show up in future reports under "My Content" so it's easy to stumble back upon a passage guide you've already worked through.

Yes, but I want to do more than "stumble upon" any passage guides I've saved. Currently that's the only way you can ever find them again. I might remember something vaguely about some notes I'd taken in a PG but not remember where in Scripture they are. The only way to find all my passage guides is to create a PG for the entire Bible! and look in My Content. Last time I tried that, Logos couldn't handle it and crashed. They should provide a list of saved passage guide reports somewhere, so you can go through them and cull the ones you don't need anymore quite easily, or be reminded again something you were studying before.

 

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2010 5:45 AM

And also I'd like to see it trigger your notes when the new PG only OVERLAPS the current PG....right now...you must pick the EXACT passage again to see your notes...

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2010 5:59 AM

Robert Pavich:

And also I'd like to see it trigger your notes when the new PG only OVERLAPS the current PG....right now...you must pick the EXACT passage again to see your notes...

+1 Yes

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2010 10:29 AM

Rosie, I really like your idea! I hope that is implemented in the future. 

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2010 11:12 AM

Robert Pavich:
And also I'd like to see it trigger your notes when the new PG only OVERLAPS the current PG

These are in My Content - I tested yesterday. I would not want the ability to update an overlapping note - to easy to put notes outside where you mean to. To me the current functionality has the appropriate behavior.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2010 11:15 AM

Rosie Perera:
hey should provide a list of saved passage guide reports somewhere, so you can go through them and cull the ones you don't need anymore quite easily, or be reminded again something you were studying before.

I agree.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 228
Bruce Junkermann | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2010 6:25 PM

Philip Spitzer:

BruceJunkermann:
I then add more notes to word Y, close the guide.  Later open the guide and the updating I did isn't there.  Can you help me?

I've never had this problem, but I haven't looked for it either. I'll keep a watch out for it.

 

Turns out it's just my tired old computer at home.  My slightly less tired computer at work saves all changes nicely.

Posts 19139
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 10 2010 10:33 PM

Jacob Hantla:

As far as I know there is no way to delete it. But the good thing is that it doesn't clutter up any menus (it's not accessible on the File menu); you'll only see it when you run a guide covering a similar verse range. 

There may very well be a way to delete it, but I don't know about it, and for me, there is no point to deleting it.

Jacob, I missed that question embedded in your previous post. FYI, you can delete a saved Passage Guide report by running a PG that spans more than the range of verses in the one you want to delete. You will see a section at the top of the guide that says "See Also" and any other PG report you'd saved before that covered some of the same text.

If you hover the mouse over one of the saved PGs, it pops up a window showing the verse range that PG is associated with, and there's a red X next to the date when it was saved, which you can click to delete it.

This is fine for now, but it's kind of hit or miss. You can't really expect to run a PG on the entire Bible just to find out what old saved reports you might have lying around. I wish they would provide a quick way to see a list of them all, from which you could delete any that you don't need anymore. I know they are probably not taking up much memory, but clutter is still clutter, and I like to clear it out.

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spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 3:07 AM

Rosie Perera:
Jacob, I missed that question embedded in your previous post. FYI, you can delete a saved Passage Guide report by running a PG that spans more than the range of verses in the one you want to delete. You will see a section at the top of the guide that says "See Also" and any other PG report you'd saved before that covered some of the same text.

A while back I thought I tried this and it only removed it from the "see also" section. This time I tried it and it seemed to delete the guide. The problem was it created a guide for the overlapping guide I ran to get rid of the old one! then when I created an overlapping guide of the overlapping guide, it wouldn't show up in the "see also section". It's not an "end of the world" problem but I hope they add that little red box to the "My Content" section. That would solve a lot.

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 11 2010 3:08 AM

Rosie Perera:
I wish they would provide a quick way to see a list of them all, from which you could delete any that you don't need anymore.

missed this in your original post. You can see a list of them all, you can't delete guides from it. Create a guide with only a "my content" section. then run the guide "gen-rev".

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