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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 8:25 AM

Unix:
I am reading one volume in the set, but don't know what to make of it, and 2005 feels a bit old (the Wisdom volume)

There is a reason they call it the "Wisdom of the Ages." A commentary that is any newer is not going to have any new revelation. The idea that modern commentaries are always better than older ones is erroneous. Many commentary authors of days gone by were imminent eminent scholars. (Early Church Fathers, Luther, Calvin, etc.) Most of the commentaries listed on BestCommentaries.com are older than 2005. You might want to expand your horizons of consideration. BestCommentaries.com is a good place to start. 

Thought for the day:

  • If we follow the Biblical admonition to number our days Psalm 90:12, and
  • We live an average lifespan of 70 years (Psalm 90:10)
  • How many days do you have left?    70 years - your current age x 365 days
  • Sobering, isn't it?

Don't worry about the copyright dates of your commentaries. Find good books and stick with them.

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 8:28 AM

Super Tramp:

Many commentary authors of days gone by were imminent scholars.

Good reply. Appeal to novelty is sometimes a problem in our age. Some of the most poignant and insightful views I've read are buried in the "old" commentaries.

Note: I think you mean eminent scholars.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 8:34 AM

Lee:
Note: I think you mean eminent scholars.

eminent / imminent

A case in point why I am not writing commentaries. Roll Eyes

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 8:36 AM

Maybe it was prophetic!?

They are coming, and coming soon...

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 8:39 AM

Super Tramp:
Find good books and stick with them.

Perhaps Poor Man's Old and New Testament commentary (1808-1844) => http://www.logos.com/product/26326/poor-mans-old-and-new-testament-commentary 

Maybe Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges (1882-1922) http://www.logos.com/product/8544/the-cambridge-bible-for-schools-and-colleges

Thankful for truth not being confined to human dates.

Keep Smiling Smile

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 9:08 AM

Super Tramp:

Unix:
I am reading one volume in the set, but don't know what to make of it, and 2005 feels a bit old (the Wisdom volume)

There is a reason they call it the "Wisdom of the Ages." A commentary that is any newer is not going to have any new revelation. The idea that modern commentaries are always better than older ones is erroneous. Many commentary authors of days gone by were imminent eminent scholars. (Early Church Fathers, Luther, Calvin, etc.) Most of the commentaries listed on BestCommentaries.com are older than 2005. You might want to expand your horizons of consideration. BestCommentaries.com is a good place to start. 

Thought for the day:

  • If we follow the Biblical admonition to number our days Psalm 90:12, and
  • We live an average lifespan of 70 years (Psalm 90:10)
  • How many days do you have left?    70 years - your current age x 365 days
  • Sobering, isn't it?

Don't worry about the copyright dates of your commentaries. Find good books and stick with them.

True and false.  There are good old commentaries, but one needs to appreciate the advances in linguistic studies and in methods of interpretation.  Many (most) of the older commentaries were concerned with simply deriving doctrinal points from texts rather than in coming to a deeper understanding of the meaning of the texts—especially with regard to their meaning for the time in which the texts were written.  Many of the older commentaries also tend to interpret the texts in light of Christianity whereas they must first be understood in relation to the then current situation.  Don't avoid old works (especially if you understand "old" in terms of older than 2005), but season your library with some newer understanding.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 9:11 AM

Super Tramp, If You would have looked more closely, I wasn't talking about commentaries in my most recent post: the volume from 2005 is not a commentary, it's introductions. Wouldn't things like dating a book of the Bible better be based on recent scholarship? There's a lot about other scholars works in that volume, but few references to recent works.

I think the copyright date is a valid concern. In the long run, a decade or two from now, most books that I've bought this on-going decade will be dated.

I have some older books, many of which I will use. My definition of what is old may of course differ from what some of You have as a definition. But when considering new purchases and purchases I've recently made that can still be returned, I wouldn't want to bulk up books with questionable age.

It may be true that there are many older books that I haven't discovered. But it may be equally true that, like I started to say in the first place on the previous page in this discussion, that better books will come in the future.

And in college, the professor will like it better when I reference newer works than if referencing old and forgotten ones or outdated translations of texts. That's an unfortunate reality. I want to do well in college. Despite that, I will reference some old works that I have.

And just in case someone wonders, no I don't imagine it's possible to get recent works on every topic.

Sometimes recent works is very important, for example when there has been recent manuscript finds, such as Spinoza's Ethics and Origen. Hence it's also true that if I buy a commentary now, there may be new manuscript finds shortly after that, rendering the commentary at least partially obsolete, this happened when I first bought the Hermeneia Upgrade (containing Mt 1-7 revised, Mk and a new volume on Acts): a very ancient manuscript fragment of Mk was found. Luckily I was able to return it and get a refund (although I did at same time buy the whole set at a sale):

Super Tramp:
There is a reason they call it the "Wisdom of the Ages." A commentary that is any newer is not going to have any new revelation. The idea that modern commentaries are always better than older ones is erroneous. Many commentary authors of days gone by were eminent scholars. (Early Church Fathers, Luther, Calvin, etc.) Most of the commentaries listed on BestCommentaries.com are older than 2005. You might want to expand your horizons of consideration. BestCommentaries.com is a good place to start.

Thought for the day:

  • If we follow the Biblical admonition to number our days Psalm 90:12, and
  • We live an average lifespan of 70 years (Psalm 90:10)
  • How many days do you have left? 70 years - your current age x 365 days
  • Sobering, isn't it?

Don't worry about the copyright dates of your commentaries. Find good books and stick with them:

Unix:
I am reading one volume in the set, but don't know what to make of it, and 2005 feels a bit old (the Wisdom volume)

 


EDIT: I have newer introductions: the end-of-2011 Oxford Encyclopedia of the Books of the Bible, but I thought it would be slightly thin on the OT protestant canon books during the first year of Theology studies. I'm a bit less familiar with the OT than the NT and I'm not going to use Hebrew. I'm going to take the first level OT class twice: once in the Roman-Catholic college, once in a protestant college, so I will have many chances to make use of my books:

George Somsel:
Don't avoid old works (especially if you understand "old" in terms of older than 2005), but season your library with some newer understanding.

Aply!
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 11:54 AM

George Somsel:
True and false.  There are good old commentaries, but one needs to appreciate the advances in linguistic studies and in methods of interpretation.  Many (most) of the older commentaries were concerned with simply deriving doctrinal points from texts rather than in coming to a deeper understanding of the meaning of the texts—especially with regard to their meaning for the time in which the texts were written.  Many of the older commentaries also tend to interpret the texts in light of Christianity whereas they must first be understood in relation to the then current situation.  Don't avoid old works (especially if you understand "old" in terms of older than 2005), but season your library with some newer understanding.

George, I agree with you 98%. The only thing I take issue with is the reading into the text something that is indeed NOT THERE.  One book that comes to mind is Distorting Scripture?: The Challenge of Bible Translation and Gender Accuracy

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 12:20 PM

Unix:
Super Tramp, If You would have looked more closely, I wasn't talking about commentaries in my most recent post: the volume from 2005 is not a commentary, it's introductions.

Yes. I apologize. I picked up at http://community.logos.com/forums/p/41057/495759.aspx#495759  Shame on me. Embarrassed

But please do consider, not all knowledge starts at 2000 AD. Most"new" scholarship is based on somebody's thesis (θέσις - "something put forth")   or dissertation  (dissertātiō - "path".) As new Doctorates are issued every day, to stand out a candidate is under pressure to come up with new ideas, whether or not they are based in fact. Here is one example of what I am talking about: The Jesus Family Tomb.

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 1:56 PM

On that kind of question I agree with You, Super Tramp! Neither am I an NRSV fan, nor do I believe women can be priests:

Super Tramp:
George, I agree with you 98%. The only thing I take issue with is the reading into the text something that is indeed NOT THERE.  One book that comes to mind is Distorting Scripture?: The Challenge of Bible Translation and Gender Accuracy

 

Super Tramp:
I was trying to tailor my answer to the way Unix appears to buy books. That is, one commentary per Bible book. My personal interests differ. I want many commentaries per Bible book and many scholars, linguists, and schools of thought represented in my library. I have about 11,100 books so you know I am not just limited to Thayer, John Walvoord and A.T. Robertson. Big Smile I have the Classic Commentaries series and NCOT/NICNT, WBC, Hermeneia, AYB

Aply!
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Garrett Ho | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 2:11 PM

Unix,

If you are limited in what your budget will allow, I'd encourage you to take advantage of your college/seminary library and get to know the resources there. That will make it abundantly clear what you feel you need to personally own, based on your actual usage rather than our suggestions.

It seems like you want to be very careful about your purchase, so "try before you buy" is the safe approach. Also, if you do not need the resource now, it might be good practice to wait on it. Perhaps until after you've taken some exegesis classes. As you mentioned, new material is being published all the time, and sales occur regularly (near/at pre-pub pricing), so patience and planning will pay off as you build your library.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 2:18 PM

Garrett Ho:
It seems like you want to be very careful about your purchase, so "try before you buy" is the safe approach. Also, if you do not need the resource now, it might be good practice to wait on it. Perhaps until after you've taken some exegesis classes. As you mentioned, new material is being published all the time, and sales occur regularly (near/at pre-pub pricing), so patience and planning will pay off as you build your library.

This is an excellent idea if you have a good library nearby.

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 2:36 PM

Well, I won't have access to the library until ~1½ years from now in the turn of the year 2014/2015. It's locked.

There is another library, which is open, but the ticket to go there quickly by train costs $9½ and is valid 2 hours, so if using a ticket both ways the visit costs twice that much. There is a bus to go there also and I usually have a commuter ticket, but it's very slow because it takes a different very long route, it takes more than two hours one way. When I study in the Roman-Catholic college (1 semester I think), I will have a commuter ticket for the quick train route.

I bet I would be using the Logos forums much less if I could go to a library:

Super Tramp:
This is an excellent idea if you have a good library nearby:
Garrett Ho:
It seems like you want to be very careful about your purchase, so "try before you buy" is the safe approach. Also, if you do not need the resource now, it might be good practice to wait on it.

Aply!
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 5:16 PM

Unix:
I won't have access to the library until

What are the rules for interlibrary loans at the library which is closest to you? I know they vary from library to library but it's worth looking into.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 8 2013 6:35 PM

Such interlibrary loan possibilities don't exist at all.

I could POSSIBLY loan while studying classical Gk, but I highly doubt that and I'm not eager to find out as there is nothing I can do myself to get quicker access to libraries and books. Even if it is possible they charge a fee per book, $1½ which is pretty much and the loan period is very short - I usually need a lot of time since I do many things and don't focus on just one book. So evaluating for example all volumes in a whole set or many books on a topic would be very expensive:

MJ. Smith:
What are the rules for interlibrary loans at the library which is closest to you? I know they vary from library to library but it's worth looking into:
Unix:
I won't have access to the library until

Aply!
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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 9 2013 3:09 AM

I was considering: A Guide to Old Testament Theology and Exegesis by VanGemeren, Willem A as printed matter, I found a copy for a reasonable price 3 days ago at abebooks.co.uk with very cheap postage but I didn't have enough money at that point and I still have very little money in case I upgrade one of my two laptops to Windows 8 (it depends on what it costs to install Word 2010 (Starter) back). It's the introductions from NIDOTTE. Could it be a good complement to what I have? Is it outdated? What kind of bias does it have? If I can get answers to those questions it seems like good value for money.

(When it comes to the NT I don't have NIDNTT but I do have Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament (3 vols.) which I like better.)

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 9 2013 4:44 AM

If you're asking about specific titles or sets, it might be better to just start a new thread.

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 9 2013 5:54 AM

Lee, all these books are connected! I'll show You how:

What worries me is that Logos seems to have so much from Baker/Brazos, Baylor and Zondervan nowadays and much of those books are a bit too conservative:

Lee:

If you're asking about specific titles or sets, it might be better to just start a new thread.

or

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 9 2013 6:01 AM

This is an old thread entitled "Outdated and Expensive".

If you're going to discuss specific titles, it's probably better to start a new thread to draw attention from those who have actually read or encountered those works.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 9 2013 7:23 AM

Lee:

This is an old thread entitled "Outdated and Expensive".

If you're going to discuss specific titles, it's probably better to start a new thread to draw attention from those who have actually read or encountered those works.

I agree. Very few people are going to wade through this entire thread if they have not already been following it.

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