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Jerry Walker | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Dec 24 2011 7:17 PM | Locked

Has the problem that prevents us on the Mac side to be able to hover over a link that we have in a note file been fixed in the new 4.5? What Im asking is, on the windows side you are able to add a scripture like John 1:1 click the space bar and Logos hyperlinks the scripture then you are able to hover over the link and the scripture shows in the pop up box. Has this been fixed in 4.5? Thanks!

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Philana Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 24 2011 7:23 PM | Locked

I haven't seen it yet, and the current beta releases have been mainly bug fixes.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 24 2011 7:40 PM | Locked

Jerry Walker:
Has this been fixed in 4.5?

As of Logos 4.5 Beta 11, the answer is No.  Logos 4.5 Beta has improved positioning in a note file when use right click.

Wiki Mac and PC User Interface Differences => Feature Parity includes:

PC Notes have more capabilities than Mac, including automatic hyperlinking of scripture in notes and right click to Note item. Logos 4.3 added keyboard shortcuts and bullet usability, but still needs more improvement; Logos User Voice suggestion =>Rework notes function – in one or multiple phases includes: “Implement parity for Mac version”; plus a specific Logos User Voice suggestion => Improve Logos 4 Mac Note Positioning
Changes promised for Logos 4.5 Beta, Note positioning on Mac included in Logos 4.5 Beta 1, “no color” background option added in Logos 4.5 Beta 5, positioning improved in Logos 4.5 Beta 6

Keep Smiling Smile

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 26 2011 8:52 AM | Locked

Didn't hovering use to work? I seem to remember it did once upon a time. Actually, the more I think about it, the more certain I am that it used to work, though something was still wrong with it. It may have been that the popup couldn't be made to stay open, or it may have been something with links in the popup not functioning quite as they should, but I'm 99% certain that the basic hovering>popup function worked (provided, of course, that you had created a manual link...).

Regressions are supposed to be fixed quickly...

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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Jerry Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 26 2011 9:49 AM | Locked

fgh:

Didn't hovering use to work? I seem to remember it did once upon a time. Actually, the more I think about it, the more certain I am that it used to work, though something was still wrong with it. It may have been that the popup couldn't be made to stay open, or it may have been something with links in the popup not functioning quite as they should, but I'm 99% certain that the basic hovering>popup function worked (provided, of course, that you had created a manual link...).

Regressions are supposed to be fixed quickly...

 

FGH, it did work at one time, but wasn't the best. I haven't used notes all that much until recently and found that it doesn't work anymore. I hope Logos comes on with it in terms of notes and some other feature parity stuff its been a long time and I just want it to work like it does on the windows side. But its still the best out there no doubt.

 

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Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 27 2011 2:25 PM | Locked

Jerry Walker:

fgh:

Didn't hovering use to work? I seem to remember it did once upon a time. Actually, the more I think about it, the more certain I am that it used to work, though something was still wrong with it. It may have been that the popup couldn't be made to stay open, or it may have been something with links in the popup not functioning quite as they should, but I'm 99% certain that the basic hovering>popup function worked (provided, of course, that you had created a manual link...).

Regressions are supposed to be fixed quickly...

 

FGH, it did work at one time, but wasn't the best. I haven't used notes all that much until recently and found that it doesn't work anymore. I hope Logos comes on with it in terms of notes and some other feature parity stuff its been a long time and I just want it to work like it does on the windows side. But its still the best out there no doubt.

 

Hi Jerry,

Hovering over manually created Scripture links does invoke a popup window, but the reference shown looks something like "logosref:Bible Jn3.16" and doesn't display the full text of the verse as on Windows.  This is a known issue and there are eventual plans to obtain feature parity but not in the near future.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 29 2011 12:14 PM | Locked

Kevin Byford:
Hovering over manually created Scripture links does invoke a popup window, but the reference shown looks something like "logosref:Bible Jn3.16"

In my [stable] version I get no popup whatsoever at this point.

Kevin Byford:
and doesn't display the full text of the verse as on Windows.

Like I and Jerry said, this used to work! We used to get popups with the full text. This first basic step is not a feature parity issue, it's a regression, and regressions are supposed to be fixed directly!

Not that it really matters, I guess. Whether you fix that popup or not, the program will still be unusable to me, and I'm more and more getting the impression that that isn't going to change. Ever.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 287
Jerry Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 29 2011 3:49 PM | Locked

fgh:

Kevin Byford:
Hovering over manually created Scripture links does invoke a popup window, but the reference shown looks something like "logosref:Bible Jn3.16"

In my [stable] version I get no popup whatsoever at this point.

Kevin Byford:
and doesn't display the full text of the verse as on Windows.

Like I and Jerry said, this used to work! We used to get popups with the full text. This first basic step is not a feature parity issue, it's a regression, and regressions are supposed to be fixed directly!

Not that it really matters, I guess. Whether you fix that popup or not, the program will still be unusable to me, and I'm more and more getting the impression that that isn't going to change. Ever.

 

Yea this is my thoughts as well it once worked but doesn't anymore. Not a new feature but one that has been broken along the way.

 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 30 2011 3:02 AM | Locked

Kevin Byford:
 This is a known issue and there are eventual plans to obtain feature parity but not in the near future.

This is a disturbing statement on any level. What has happened with Logos' commitment to feature parity? 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 30 2011 4:01 AM | Locked

Jack Caviness:

Kevin Byford:
 This is a known issue and there are eventual plans to obtain feature parity but not in the near future.

This is a disturbing statement on any level. What has happened with Logos' commitment to feature parity? 

Likewise wondering about feature parity prognostication ?  Especially since Logos 4.5 Beta already includes many improvements.

Edit: wonder if a Logos 4 feature parity discussion should be entertained in suggestions forum ?

In Logos 4.5 Beta 12 on Mac, while replicating a Notes issue => 4.5 for Mac beta - bullets and indents in notes noticed the mouse pointer on Mac change to a hand over hyperlinks in Notes automatically added in Logos 4.5 Beta 12 on Windows, which is visually tantalizing, but missing pop-up and click to open preferred Bible.

Keep Smiling Smile 

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 30 2011 3:18 PM | Locked

We have not changed our commitment to feature parity.

I've talked with Kevin (who has only been at Logos for a month!) and cleared up the misunderstanding.

As far as we can tell from talking with the programmers and looking at the code, this is not a regression -- we haven't had this feature in notes on the Mac. One of the programmers involved is on vacation, but we're pretty sure about this, since the reason we don't have the feature now is that we can't easily / at-all make it work with the Mac system-provided rich text editor we're using.

This is one of the places where the Mac and Windows implementations are not built on Logos code, but are sitting on top of operating system-provided core components.

On Windows, this WPF-provided rich text box is why typing notes is slow.

On Mac, the OS X provided rich text box is why we can't offer custom rendered tool-tips of hyperlinks.

Conceivably we could do a lot of ugly hacking to make this work on Mac, but the correct solution is coming, so it seems like a big waste to spend a lot of time hacking.

Because on iOS and Android, there's no good system-provided rich text editor that meets our needs.

So on iOS, we've had someone updating our own rich text display system (that's used to display the Logos resources) to act as a rich text editor. (Long-time Logos notes argument fans will recognize this as exactly what I didn't want to do. Long, long-time Logos notes argument fans will recognize this as what we did and came to regret in the 1995 LLS system. But that's when I was coding the editor, and smarter, more competent coders are handling it now.)

The desire to allow you to edit your rich-text formatted notes on mobile devices forced us into this, and the good news is that it looks like it's going to work very well.

We have not yet worked on enabling this on the desktop apps. The display engine is shared code across all platforms, but there's some work to do on each to hook things up, and the desktop has some things mobile devices don't, like cursor keys, shift-cursor-key selection extension, double-clicking in margins to select paragraphs, and other UI paradigms. etc. etc.

But we expect it will work, and hope it will not only fix typing performance on Windows, custom popup rendering on the Mac, but also ensure exact fidelity and feature support in our rich text editing on every platform.

We've been working on this for months (with an iOS focus), but, as you can imagine, it's going to be a little while before we roll it out, test it, and deploy it on the desktop apps. Because messing up your notes data is not something we want to do. :-)

-- Bob

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 31 2011 12:06 AM | Locked

Thanks Big Smile for awesome update, on wiki page => Logos Speaks added:

Notes update across different Logos versions, including mobile (Bob Pritchett, CEO)

Keep Smiling Smile

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 31 2011 12:27 AM | Locked

Bob

Many thanks for this update - it is really helpful

Graham

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 31 2011 5:53 AM | Locked

Bob Pritchett:
We have not changed our commitment to feature parity.

Thanks for the clarification. Now, let me ask one more question that has troubled me. How many Mac programmers were pulled from L4 Mac to work on Proclaim? I know of at least one.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 31 2011 6:11 AM | Locked

Jack Caviness:
Now, let me ask one more question that has troubled me. How many Mac programmers were pulled from L4 Mac to work on Proclaim? I know of at least one.

I think David has already answered that:

There has been no great exodus of Mac developers from Logos 4 to Proclaim. In fact, there's only one Mac developer on the Proclaim team who ever worked on the Mac version of Logos 4.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 31 2011 8:12 AM | Locked

fgh:
I think David has already answered that:

Thank you for that quote. Don't remember whether I had seen it before or not.

Posts 18857
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 31 2011 4:23 PM | Locked

Bob Pritchett:

The desire to allow you to edit your rich-text formatted notes on mobile devices forced us into this, and the good news is that it looks like it's going to work very well.

...

But we expect it will work, and hope it will not only fix typing performance on Windows, custom popup rendering on the Mac, but also ensure exact fidelity and feature support in our rich text editing on every platform.

That is great news, Bob!

Bob Pritchett:

(Long-time Logos notes argument fans will recognize this as exactly what I didn't want to do. Long, long-time Logos notes argument fans will recognize this as what we did and came to regret in the 1995 LLS system. But that's when I was coding the editor, and smarter, more competent coders are handling it now.)

I've just finished reading Walter Isaacson's biography of Steve Jobs and learned about how the main reason Apple does such great products is that Steve never accepted "that can't be done" or "that's too hard" or "that will take too long" as an excuse from the developers. He believed they could do it, better than they thought they could, and in less time than they thought they could, and by golly, they did it! Some folks called that his "reality distortion field" but it worked. Sometimes I think Logos needs a bit more of that kind of "Yes we can!" mentality in-house. It's good to know, however, that eventually with enough prodding, we passionate users can get you to believe that something is possible, and see you implement it as well as we knew you could all along! Smile

Cheers, and Happy New Year! Looking forward to it being a good one for Logos and all its apps.

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