Missing: Sermon File Addon

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 29 2011 8:05 PM

Jonathan:
When in seminary the librarian often told us that we should occasionally browse the stacks rather than merely running a search on the library database.

Yes Especially important since specialties may use different terminology.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 29 2011 11:13 PM

Rick:
I may be completely wrong (if I am, please correct me) but I am thinking that back when Logos 4 was first released, the missing features page clearly showed that the sermon file add-on would be included. I am thinking that the web site has been changed this year to say that it will be redesigned and partially replaced. If I remember correctly, then some people may have bought Logos 4 with the understanding that this feature would be included. If my memory is correct, then yes, I do think that it is that important.

Rick I believe you are correct.  The page has been changed. The goal has been changed from my memory also.

Posts 5322
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 29 2011 11:14 PM

LaRosa Johnson:

Mark Barnes:
I imagined a lightly modified PBB interface, that allowed you to add multiple .docx files, and for each file asked for Scripture Reference(s), Topic(s), and Date/Occasion (possibly 'preacher' might be useful too, for churches that wanted to create Logos documents of all their sermons. Then, at the end of the resource, Logos would then add those indexes that we've spoken of.

Now that right there sounds very reasonable, and builds off of what's already built into Personal Books, but adds the necessary components for a sermon library/database.

Yes

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 29 2011 11:20 PM

Mark Barnes:
I imagined a lightly modified PBB interface, that allowed you to add multiple .docx files, and for each file asked for Scripture Reference(s), Topic(s), and Date/Occasion (possibly 'preacher' might be useful too, for churches that wanted to create Logos documents of all their sermons. Then, at the end of the resource, Logos would then add those indexes that we've spoken of.

That's what I envisioned as well.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 30 2011 1:18 AM

MJ. Smith:

Jonathan:
When in seminary the librarian often told us that we should occasionally browse the stacks rather than merely running a search on the library database.

Yes Especially important since specialties may use different terminology.

Logos metadata tagging can help virtualize resource stacks, especially subject + series tagging along with resource description.  Wish for more metadata consistency; wiki => http://wiki.logos.com/Canonical_Commentary_Collections has several collection rules that illustrate variance in metadata tagging.  

Thankful for FSD command (Facilitate Serendipitous Discovery) that opens a random resource in my Logos library; wish for FSD option to specify which "stack" to browse via library filtering.  Wonder about expanding fsd command to add a library filter ? For example, fsd sermon could open a random resource that has sermon somewhere in the metadata.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 30 2011 1:36 AM

MJ. Smith:

Mark Barnes:
I imagined a lightly modified PBB interface, that allowed you to add multiple .docx files, and for each file asked for Scripture Reference(s), Topic(s), and Date/Occasion (possibly 'preacher' might be useful too, for churches that wanted to create Logos documents of all their sermons. Then, at the end of the resource, Logos would then add those indexes that we've spoken of.

That's what I envisioned as well.

Wonder about capabilities similar to Morph Search Analysis for Logos Library and Sermons ?

Being able to choose columns for grouping and sorting would be awesome along with filtering.  Can readily envision looking at illustrations used across sermons along with topics.  For those who travel a lot, suspect location would be appreciated.

Likewise wonder about notes for various sermons, items to ponder and improve, possibly prayer items from after sermon discussions.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 8639
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 31 2011 6:55 AM

 

toughski:
SFA in Libronix also allowed a batch conversion of files (or am I thinking of Thomas' addon). This is not available in PB
 SFA in L3 permitted import of WORD Doc files.  My addin would take OpenOffice ODT files and convert them to source for the compiler to compile.  :-)

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 8639
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 31 2011 7:22 AM

MJ. Smith:
is the sharing of sermons on the web a primary or secondary function? I would argue secondary.
Totally secondary. I already post my sermons (that I care to) on my blog - for the most part though, I just want the records of Topic/Location/date/Main passage(s)/reference passages. I'm neither using SFA>L3 or PB for my sermons at the moment, though I did go through the extra expense and learning curve of switching to MS Word so I could stop fighting against Logos' desire to use MS source documents.
Bob Pritchett:
4) We need to know if this plan won't meet your needs, or if there's still affection for the existing system. Now that the Personal Books tool is done, we could conceivably continue to support exactly what the old Sermon File did; it would be some work, but we could support the wiki syntax and use it to create the highly structured document and then run it through Personal Books.
I do not like leaving the date index behind. It is imperative for sermons to know when they were preached (probably also for illustrations.) I DO NOT want wiki syntax if I can help it. I like being able to import my (new) docx files into the PB tool and you could readily solve a good portion of the dilema by adding

  • Type: Sermon
  • Location:Church_Name
  • Date(s) preached
  • keywords/topic tags

I would then be content myself to compile them into books titled "Sermons 1997-2000" or whatever. Please, don't make me learn the wiki syntax again. I'm a tech guy and I still hate learning specific syntax for something.

 

Oh, and the Bible File mock-ups look quite interesting - just don't make me post my sermons there to use them in Logos.  

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 8639
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 31 2011 7:31 AM

Bob Pritchett:

toughski:
Indexes are SUPER helpful!

The the search engine is an index. It's just not a visual, browsable one. Is this essential?

Rich, you don't have to have "providence" in your full text -- all the Sermon File addin was doing was adding your tags as words in a particular field. This is something you can still do with Personal Books. It just doesn't generate a visually readable "back of the book" index -- but it's still searchable by that index.

Or am I wrong, and that's important? Because I suppose we can go back to that...

Yes, you're wrong.  [:-)]  The date indices, the topic indices, these are essential.  Nobody likes to brag about it, but as pastors we sometimes repeat a sermon.  It's saturday night, the morning message is done, but I've had a funeral and a wedding this week - I need a Sunday evening message and just haven't had the time to build one properly.  I can stay up all night and be groggy in the pulpit (bad Idea) Or I can prayerfully search for older sermons and believe that if God blessed it once, he'll bless it again.  So I pull up an old sermon, go over it again, check my conclusions/applications and then preach it only to have sister Agatha remind me that I preached that one last quarter.  

Ok, Sister Agatha probably won't mind it so much, but still a time record is vital to me.  As it is now, I'm forced to rely upon file timestamps which change whenever a file is copied or moved (or when I fix an old typo and resave it.)  I've taken to typing the Sunday date in the header but...well the date index is vital.

 

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 8639
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 31 2011 7:39 AM

Mark Barnes:
I imagined a lightly modified PBB interface, that allowed you to add multiple .docx files, and for each file asked for Scripture Reference(s), Topic(s), and Date/Occasion (possibly 'preacher' might be useful too, for churches that wanted to create Logos documents of all their sermons. Then, at the end of the resource, Logos would then add those indexes that we've spoken of.

 

The icing on the cake would be being able to add an mp3 file to each .docx file.

 YES.  (adding a powerpoint wouldn't hurt my feelings but that is not a requirement at all).
Rick:
I may be completely wrong (if I am, please correct me) but I am thinking that back when Logos 4 was first released, the missing features page clearly showed that the sermon file add-on would be included. I am thinking that the web site has been changed this year to say that it will be redesigned and partially replaced. If I remember correctly, then some people may have bought Logos 4 with the understanding that this feature would be included. If my memory is correct, then yes, I do think that it is that important. If my memory fails me, I apologize in advance.
 You are correct, but the reasoning is due to the evolving nature of technology, and the observed data (whether correctly or incorrectly is not my point).  The changes reflect the new design of PB and the hopes that it would have met most of the SFA void - it doesn't, not entirely.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 8639
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 31 2011 7:42 AM

A final note (for now) on indexes.

In particular the topic indexes and the scripture index.  They both enable me to see "at a glance" if I've got a subconscious hobby horse.  The latter is vital because it enables me to see at a glance if I am preaching the whole council of God. 

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 217
Danny Baskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 31 2011 7:44 AM

Thomas Black:
The date indices, the topic indices, these are essential.  Nobody likes to brag about it, but as pastors we sometimes repeat a sermon.  It's saturday night, the morning message is done, but I've had a funeral and a wedding this week - I need a Sunday evening message and just haven't had the time to build one properly.  I can stay up all night and be groggy in the pulpit (bad Idea) Or I can prayerfully search for older sermons and believe that if God blessed it once, he'll bless it again.  So I pull up an old sermon, go over it again, check my conclusions/applications and then preach it only to have sister Agatha remind me that I preached that one last quarter.  

Thanks, Thomas for expressing this need. You're probably speaking for many of us. I continue to use the L3 addin so that I'll have the vital and oft-used sermon index.

db

Posts 61
Leigh Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 31 2011 8:44 AM

Having the separate topic and tag indexes in SFA is also very helpful.  I used the tags to indicate special days - Christmas Eve, Thanksgiving, Easter, Maundy Thursday, etc.  Being able to look at the index gave a a quick overview of the sermons I'd preached on those occasions.  Sure, I could do a search, but takes extra time and steps when I could just 'look at the back of the book'.  Also, as others have pointed out, being able to see all the topics and tags used is a useful reminder.  I also miss the reference box that is in the L3 version of the Sermon resource but get dropped when moved into L4.

Posts 149
Bob Schaefer | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 3 2012 10:33 AM

I share in the frustration I'm hearing from so many in this thread.

I purchased the original SFA after I had already upgraded to L4. This was largely based on the promise that an L4 version was on the way. I figured it wouldn't be too bad to manage the sermons with L3 for a little while until Logos was able to get the an L4 version out to us.

It was more of a pain than I anticipated. I stopped bothering after several months passed, and committed to waiting for the L4 version. It floors me that it's 2012, and not only is there no code released, but the posts from Logos suggest a profound ambivalence about the entire concept of the SFA as it previously existed.

I know that software features come and go. But when the feature is an expensive add-on, it's not cool to just abandon your users like that.

So what sort of tool am I looking for from Logos? Well, for one thing it wouldn't be massively different from the SFA - I was willing to pay for the features that tool offered, after all.

Specifically, here's what I'd need:

  • Forms, please - no markup should be necessary (although it could maybe be provided as an optional way for power users to prepare their documents).
  • Fields must include the following: Author; Title; Primary Scripture Reference(s); Date/Location preached (must allow for multiple entries); Topic(s); User-defined.
  • Must support lectionary preaching. Good: provide an "Occasion" field. Better: use dropdowns to choose lectionary days, so there is no discrepancy between users - i.e., "Lent 1," "1 Lent," "Lent 1B," "First Sunday in Lent, Year B" etc. Best: Incorporate lectionary support throughout Logos, so that sermons and other resources can be keyed to particular lectionary days.
  • Sermons must be treated as sections of resources, and not as resources themselves.
  • Versioning would be a big plus. If a sermon has been reused in a modified form, it should not be entered as a new sermon. Neither should the modifications to the original be lost. Tying the new and the original together as versions is the way to go.
  • Supporting attachments (mp3, ppt, etc.) would be nice, but not essential.
  • Online sharing is fine, as long as there is granular control over it.
  • Must accept input from standard formats - TXT, RTF, DOC, DOCX, Open Office. If only one format can be easily supported, I vote for RTF, which any user should be able to save to.

Really, this amounts to a somewhat upgraded version of the original, which was an incredibly useful concept itself.

Logos, please reconsider the path you're taking on the SFA. If it's done right, this is one of the single most powerful uses of Logos possible. If it's done poorly, well... don't bother, then.

Thanks for listening.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 3 2012 11:47 AM

Thanks to all for the clearly description of the needs. I've learned alot ...and Logos received the information they need to do it right - including allowing for lectionary preaching.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 3 2012 7:12 PM

MJ. Smith:
including allowing for lectionary preaching.
Yes

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 3 2012 7:13 PM

MJ. Smith:
including allowing for lectionary preaching.
Yes

Posts 217
Danny Baskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 4 2012 7:44 AM

MJ. Smith:
including allowing for lectionary preaching.

Smile

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