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This post has 13 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 24
Jose Martinez | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2012 3:58 PM

Hi, 

I am beginning to have second thoughts if buying the BDAG digital form in Logos was a good idea for my intended use. I am using it for a Greek course and here is what's troubling me. I am basically using the Search tool to be able to find the words in its Lexical form thus find the meaning and the other case forms. However, I do not  always remember the Lexical form but have a declined one to search for. However, if I search a declined form I do not get the results with the lexical form rather other words that may refer in the definition to this form of the word I am searching for.

1. Searching at the Search tool for the Lexical form: Search: "Lemma Text" in "BDAG" for: g:"kurios" (transliterate for "lord" in its lexical form).

2. Searching at the Search tool for the Lexical form, Formal Equivalent in "BDAG" for: g:"kurion" (declined Accusative: NO RESULTS.

I am just wondering if there is any search possibilities for a declined word and that it shows the Lexical form in the result. I just don't want to be submerged browsing through the index looking of the BDAG  for the different options if I do not know the Lexical form of the word but have a declined option to look for. 

Thanks.

Jose Martinez

Posts 39
Ryan Boyer | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 12 2012 4:08 PM

Jose,

I don't intend this to sound mean, but you really need to just learn the lexical forms - then keep BDAG. Knowin the language is about worthless without memorizing your roots. 

Ryan

Posts 10338
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 12 2012 4:12 PM

I solve that problem by prioritizing an analytical lexicon below my greek lexicons. It then catches the various case forms, showing the lexical.


Posts 24
Jose Martinez | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 12 2012 4:15 PM

You have a good point Ryan. Thanks for your input. 

Jose

Posts 24
Jose Martinez | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 12 2012 4:16 PM

Hi DMB, 

By this you mean to have another panel with another Lexicon and link the two panels when doing the search? What lexicon do use suggest?

Thanks a lot.

Jose

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 12 2012 4:40 PM

Is there a particular reason you're doing this from the Search panel, instead of from the text, where you can just double-click on the word?

 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 24
Jose Martinez | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 12 2012 4:45 PM

Hi fgh, 

Yes, I am specifically using it for some greek exercises which requires to translate some words (and sentences). We are allowed to use the lexicon for the translations. 

Thanks. 

Jose

Posts 667
Jonathan Pitts | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 13 2012 5:08 PM

Lexham Analytical Lexicon to the Greek New Testament would seem to be the resource that you need. It is in Scholars Silver and the Catholic collection, or it can be purchased for $29.95.

I have it prioritized just below my usual lexicons. It is particularly useful when searcing from a commentary, where the lemma is not embedded in the resource. The analytical lexicon will give you the lemma, and then you can search for that in BDAG and other lexicons.

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2012 2:55 AM

Jonathan Pitts:
The analytical lexicon will give you the lemma, and then you can search for that in BDAG and other lexicons.

Lexham Analytical Lexicon to the Greek New Testament also includes cognate words.  If resource has morphological tagging, right click on a word in Logos 4 has lemma, which can be clicked for a list of 5 lexicons with lemma entry:

Personally have different lexicon prioritization priorities, thread => searching strong's numbers has some screen shots.  Note: several discussion lexicons have Strong's numbering.  Thread => If you were stranded on a desert island what would you do about this?? has contrasting opinions about BDAG and Louw-Nida.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2012 5:12 AM

Jose,

As others suggested an analytical lexicon will lead you from a declined form to the correct lemma. HOWEVER, everyone I've ever know who knows Greek well would tell you that such a practice will diminish how well you learn Greek. AND, when I was in Greek class the use of an analytical lexicon was classified as cheating so before you start using an analytical lexicon ask your professor/teacher if that is ok.

Also, did you know that there is a Table of Contents pane? You can activate it in the tile menu. It will help you to browse for a lexical form even if you're not entirely certain on the spelling.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2012 6:44 AM

Kevin Becker:
when I was in Greek class the use of an analytical lexicon was classified as cheating

We weren't even told such creatures exist. Big Smile

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 23 2012 7:25 AM

Jose Martinez:

Hi DMB, 

By this you mean to have another panel with another Lexicon and link the two panels when doing the search? What lexicon do use suggest?

Thanks a lot.

Jose

Don't bother with an analytical unless you get it free.  It's about as useful as certain proverbial parts of anatomy on a boar.  If you really need help in finding the lexical form (lemma), you can simply hold your mousepointer over the word and it will appear along with all of the information you would have gotten from an analytical.  I would advise using this sparingly—force yourself to learn to recognize the forms and be able to know the lemma.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 340
Smithereens | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 30 2013 5:47 PM

Jose, I tried to message you through FaithLife but I don't know how widely that has been opted in to. It didn't appear to work. Anyway, I wonder if you would mind firing me an email at s [dot] a [dot] smith [at] live.com

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 30 2013 6:07 PM

Jose Martinez:

Hi, 

I am beginning to have second thoughts if buying the BDAG digital form in Logos was a good idea for my intended use. I am using it for a Greek course and here is what's troubling me. I am basically using the Search tool to be able to find the words in its Lexical form thus find the meaning and the other case forms. However, I do not  always remember the Lexical form but have a declined one to search for. However, if I search a declined form I do not get the results with the lexical form rather other words that may refer in the definition to this form of the word I am searching for.

1. Searching at the Search tool for the Lexical form: Search: "Lemma Text" in "BDAG" for: g:"kurios" (transliterate for "lord" in its lexical form).

2. Searching at the Search tool for the Lexical form, Formal Equivalent in "BDAG" for: g:"kurion" (declined Accusative: NO RESULTS.

I am just wondering if there is any search possibilities for a declined word and that it shows the Lexical form in the result. I just don't want to be submerged browsing through the index looking of the BDAG  for the different options if I do not know the Lexical form of the word but have a declined option to look for. 

Thanks.

Jose Martinez

Until you learn the lemma (your term, "lexical form") you could do a search of Greek resources for the particular form.  In Logos these are morpholoically tagged so that when you hover over them you will see the morphological information in the lower left corner.  There is a program (non-Logos) which will take a form and present the information you need, but since I have never really used it, I don't remember the name.  At one time it was free, but I think they have both a free version and a paid version now.  Sorry I can't supply the name of the program. 

By all means, do learn the lemma of the various words.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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