Mormon Studies Collection

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This post has 223 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 93
Michael Gaskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 24 2012 10:18 PM

25 here....

Posts 2843
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2012 7:25 AM

J Hale:

I’m impressed that Logos would be willing to put up the Book of Mormon for sale. I hope that with this set of reference books that people will read the whole verse from the Book of Mormon, or sermon, from the Journal of Discourses, and not the little blurb that they might read from a book that is against the LDS church.

Well, I hope they will read "The Pearl of Great Price" and the many other extreme teachings of Joseph Smith and B. Young which contain their teachings that are far outside orthodox Christian boundaries. 

Not intended as an attack, but this is a chance to see for oneself what the Mormon faith teaches, and its most unusual teachings are not in the Book of Mormon.

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 8967
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2012 8:05 AM

David Ames:
 This is a large church, 14.1 million members – They have a large library that could use the technology of Logos 4.   [they also already have their 'Scriptures' in E-book formats]  

The first LDS Scriptures library used the old Infobase search system. It was difficult to use and buggy on most systems. It was revamped later and is actually usable now. But if the resources were available in Logos it would be another great improvement. 

I believe the Mormon church would not be very objectionable to publishing in Logos 4 format. They seem more willing to get their message out than other groups.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 217
Danny Baskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 25 2012 8:12 AM

Philana Crouch:

I see this as very useful, for apologetics.

 

Yes

Posts 74
Ralph Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 26 2012 8:57 PM

J. Morris:

one of America's largest and somewhat controversial churches, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

"...and somewhat controversial..." Indifferent

Only somewhat...?  Overall description and book descriptions are too modest IMO and may cause some to think Logos is legitimizing Mormonism.

You are surprised? They offer the even more controversial Catholic collection.

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 1:54 AM

Has it occurred to you that there are Mormon users of Logos? Just saying - don't assume that it's only of use for apologetics. We don't want to make Mormons stay in the "closet".

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 8:51 AM

I am just amazed that people feel the need to defend and refute on this site.  I understand that the content of our software leads us to think about religion, to include, to exclude.  But this site is not about that.  Most of us don't go through our day, checking who is Catholic/Protestant/Pentecostal/Mormon/Atheist/Hindu as we accept hamburgers and fries, buy a bus ticket, open the door for a person, yield for a merging car on the interstate, etc.  In many cases, we can be thankful, grateful, and show love to all of them.  Let's try a little more of that on this website, without worrying about if being nice and civil will compromise our own values and truth and staking out our plot of land--it doesn't seem to in those other instances I mentioned.  Peace.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 1011
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 9:45 AM

Dan DeVilder:

I am just amazed that people feel the need to defend and refute on this site.  I understand that the content of our software leads us to think about religion, to include, to exclude.  But this site is not about that.  Most of us don't go through our day, checking who is Catholic/Protestant/Pentecostal/Mormon/Atheist/Hindu as we accept hamburgers and fries, buy a bus ticket, open the door for a person, yield for a merging car on the interstate, etc.  In many cases, we can be thankful, grateful, and show love to all of them.  Let's try a little more of that on this website, without worrying about if being nice and civil will compromise our own values and truth and staking out our plot of land--it doesn't seem to in those other instances I mentioned.  Peace.

I am all for being nice to everyone and not seeking to cause offence when it can be avoided but the idea that you can discuss LDS resources neutraly is just plain wrong. When we are considering the value of a Mormon collection the view of a Mormon should (in my humble opinion) be of little weight to both Logos and the customer base for a whole host of reasons. Coversely the view of a Mormon on Hambergers and fries is as likely to be as valid as anyone here, but the two situations are not analogous. 

 

Posts 1475
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 10:09 AM

" the value of a Mormon collection the view of a Mormon should (in my humble opinion) be of little weight to both Logos and the customer base for a whole host of reasons."

Indeed. Equally, WRT the value of a Catholic collection,  the view of a Catholic should (in my humble opinion) be of little weight. And it goes without saying that  the view of a Jew should be of little weight in evaluating the value of a Jewish Collection. With a Muslim collection, we can't trust them at all, can we? And when we get to Reformed collections, we should not consult anyone but non-reformed! Devil

Right?

 

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 1011
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 10:22 AM

Ben:

" the value of a Mormon collection the view of a Mormon should (in my humble opinion) be of little weight to both Logos and the customer base for a whole host of reasons."

Indeed. Equally, WRT the value of a Catholic collection,  the view of a Catholic should (in my humble opinion) be of little weight. And it goes without saying that  the view of a Jew should be of little weight in evaluating the value of a Jewish Collection. With a Muslim collection, we can't trust them at all, can we? And when we get to Reformed collections, we should not consult anyone but non-reformed! Devil

Right?

 

Wrong, but you knew that anyway, trust is not a concept I even thought of, it is all about being able to discuss the matter sensibly and I do not mean that in a nasty way, I mean that within the context being able to understand the issues.

 

Posts 130
Willard Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 11:42 AM

Dan DeVilder:
I am just amazed that people feel the need to defend and refute on this site.  I understand that the content of our software leads us to think about religion, to include, to exclude.  But this site is not about that. 
Logos has morphed into something far removed from Bible Software. Offering resources that discuss varied interpretations, and the theologies that spring from them, is the work of a Bible Software Company.

However, Offering resources that claim to be an alternative to/replacement of the Bible steps over the line. The firm is now a Bible Alternative Software Company.

From the LDS website:

 "The Book of Mormon is the word of God, like the Bible. It is Holy Scripture, with form and content similar to that of the Bible."

The Book of Mormon is but one such "Alternative Bible" offered by Logos.


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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 12:26 PM

Mike Pettit:
but the idea that you can discuss LDS resources neutraly is just plain wrong

This is not my experience. I find that I have to read and listen neutrally in order to understand another position and make a judgment on it. Otherwise I act out of prejudice (pre-judgment) not knowledge. Prejudice is rarely effective communication.

About a week ago, I found a statement that was flagrantly, factually wrong - it claimed that there were no cases of X in the New Testament. The next book I looked in had a 14 page list of X's in the New Testament. Should I blame Logos for spreading false information? No, I simply recognize that author Y and perhaps publisher Z need to be double checked on their "facts".

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1011
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 12:41 PM

MJ. Smith:

Mike Pettit:
but the idea that you can discuss LDS resources neutraly is just plain wrong

This is not my experience. I find that I have to read and listen neutrally in order to understand another position and make a judgment on it. Otherwise I act out of prejudice (pre-judgment) not knowledge. Prejudice is rarely effective communication.

I agree whole heartedly that you have to understand the other sides position and to do so you have to be scrupulously fair but fairness is very different to neutrality.  Whether you agree with him or not Van Til does offer some fascinating insights into what I am seeking to express and I am certainly not advocating prejudice and in everything we should be civil.

If the book of Mormon is or indeed may be inspired then Christian revelation is false, in that way I cannot see neutrality when discussing the value of the document. 

Saying that you will notice that I verge on being giddy with delight at the prospect of this package and if Mormoms get exposed to biblical truth through this publication all the better, if not I still think it is a good idea as knowledge is a noble end in itself within appropriate confines which depends on the attitude of the student, not the subject itself.  

    

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 12:54 PM

Willard Scott:
Offering resources that claim to be an alternative to/replacement of the Bible steps over the line. The company is now a Bible Alternative Software firm.

Well, so does the Quran, and all the dozens (or more likely hundreds) of Hindu, Buddhist, Assyrian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Canaanite, you name it, texts that Logos has offered for years -- and I've yet to see anyone rage against Canaanite Myths and Legends. Even Jewish texts are 'alternative' in that they reject the New Testament. So I guess according to your definition Logos has been a "Bible Alternative Software firm" for a very long time, and I don't expect it will change anytime soon. 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 1:03 PM

Thankful for the immense variety of digital resources available for use in Logos Bible Software: much to research, study, ponder, and pray.

Thankful Logos has resources that are available in many seminary libraries; looking forward to adding more digital resources to my Logos library.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 1:14 PM

Mike Pettit:
When we are considering the value of a Mormon collection the view of a Mormon should (in my humble opinion) be of little weight to both Logos and the customer base

You are half right, at best. 

Yes   What a Mormon thinks of this collection is really not all that big a deal to you (assuming you are not Mormon.) 

No   Logos should only be concerned with the opinions of users that will actually buy the resource. That group could include Mormons, non-Mormons, and possibly Orthodox Jewsish non-Mormons.  The Mormon Studies Collection is a primary sources collection. It can have great value as an apologetics resource but it is not an apologetics collection. If a Logos user can not read the content and think for themselves, I suggest they go for some of the apologetics material and just trust their evaluations to be correct.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 2592
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 27 2012 2:18 PM

What is lots of fun is following the footnotes in some ‘apologetics material’.  Have found that some use secondary sources instead of the original.  And some of those secondary sources are not too careful about what they quote.

What is also interesting is when ellipsis are used. With the form ‘xxx (…) yyy’.  When used correctly the author is saying that even though ‘xxx’ and ‘yyy’ are separated they form one continuous thought as if the text between did not exist.  That there is nothing in the span covered by (…) that changes the meaning.  Many times I suspect that the author does not expect us to have a copy of the work quoted.

Always follow all of the footnotes to the originals (not just what the author added) or read the originals yourself.  They hide many of their sins there in.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 2:05 AM

David Ames:

What is lots of fun is following the footnotes in some ‘apologetics material’.  Have found that some use secondary sources instead of the original.  And some of those secondary sources are not too careful about what they quote.

What is also interesting is when ellipsis are used. With the form ‘xxx (…) yyy’.  When used correctly the author is saying that even though ‘xxx’ and ‘yyy’ are separated they form one continuous thought as if the text between did not exist.  That there is nothing in the span covered by (…) that changes the meaning.  Many times I suspect that the author does not expect us to have a copy of the work quoted.

Always follow all of the footnotes to the originals (not just what the author added) or read the originals yourself.  They hide many of their sins there in.

you are spot on.  that's something I have noticed several times.  I also note that I get a better feel for what a position is when I read the primary vs. the secondary.  reading Bultmann was like that for me.  

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 2:19 AM

Mike Pettit:

Dan DeVilder:

I am just amazed that people feel the need to defend and refute on this site.  I understand that the content of our software leads us to think about religion, to include, to exclude.  But this site is not about that.  Most of us don't go through our day, checking who is Catholic/Protestant/Pentecostal/Mormon/Atheist/Hindu as we accept hamburgers and fries, buy a bus ticket, open the door for a person, yield for a merging car on the interstate, etc.  In many cases, we can be thankful, grateful, and show love to all of them.  Let's try a little more of that on this website, without worrying about if being nice and civil will compromise our own values and truth and staking out our plot of land--it doesn't seem to in those other instances I mentioned.  Peace.

 

I am all for being nice to everyone and not seeking to cause offence when it can be avoided but the idea that you can discuss LDS resources neutraly is just plain wrong. When we are considering the value of a Mormon collection the view of a Mormon should (in my humble opinion) be of little weight to both Logos and the customer base for a whole host of reasons. Coversely the view of a Mormon on Hambergers and fries is as likely to be as valid as anyone here, but the two situations are not analogous. 

 

Mike, while I still stand by what I said, I was my own victim of skimming the thread and conflating my perception with other threads when I replied.  Most of the conversation here was fairly sane.  I was thinking of other threads that went over the top.  whether or not the "two situations are analogous" or not, i suppose I can leave that to you, but my point is, this is a software company that helps with Bible and theology study.  I have thousands of works in this, with which i agree and disagree.  I get what will be helpful to me in my studies.  I don't feel the need to rant against X, Y, or Z.  I am trying to point out that what Logos offers does not change my viewpoint or theology, just by offering it.  This website and forum IS kind of like the hamburger check-out line.  It's about how to use the software and about the resources the software company is selling.  it's not the Harvard Yard or Areopagus or Mel's Diner.  

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 1513
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 3:02 AM

I think it is clear that Logos intends these resources to be used for apologetic reasons - much like with the Islamic collection. I would have an issue with Logos marketing and labeling the Book of Mormon as a "Christian" resource. However, they have not - so I am fine with this collection. 

 

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