Mormon Studies Collection

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This post has 223 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 245
BriM | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 3:48 AM

Joshua G:
I think it is clear that Logos intends these resources to be used for apologetic reasons - much like with the Islamic collection. I would have an issue with Logos marketing and labeling the Book of Mormon as a "Christian" resource. However, they have not - so I am fine with this collection. 

Yes, I think it's OK on this basis. A concern I have though with this and the Islam and eastern resources is that a general search through one's library may give hits in these resources. If the resource title isn't a give away and the topic that is pulled up isn't way off, some people might end up absorbing non-mainstream-Christian teaching unintentionally.

It would be nice if resources like this could be compartmentalised so that they would only be searched if explicitly selected. I realise I could create a collection of "Mainstream Christian Resources" or similar and search that, but I tend to search my whole library and I guess many people do the same. I'm thinking that a checkbox option like full or restricted search, together with the ability to over-ride what resources go in these would satisfy people of theological persuasions.

Posts 2402
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 4:24 AM

Question for thought:  The date was sometime before 70 AD in a small store in Jerusalem.  And a loyal long time customer noted that this new scroll called ‘The Good News’ by someone called Mark was for sale.  It is not Jewish! At least the Karaites and the ones from Qumran pretended to be Jewish.

Posts 999
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 6:05 AM

Dan DeVilder:

Mike Pettit:

Dan DeVilder:

I am just amazed that people feel the need to defend and refute on this site.  I understand that the content of our software leads us to think about religion, to include, to exclude.  But this site is not about that.  Most of us don't go through our day, checking who is Catholic/Protestant/Pentecostal/Mormon/Atheist/Hindu as we accept hamburgers and fries, buy a bus ticket, open the door for a person, yield for a merging car on the interstate, etc.  In many cases, we can be thankful, grateful, and show love to all of them.  Let's try a little more of that on this website, without worrying about if being nice and civil will compromise our own values and truth and staking out our plot of land--it doesn't seem to in those other instances I mentioned.  Peace.

 

I am all for being nice to everyone and not seeking to cause offence when it can be avoided but the idea that you can discuss LDS resources neutraly is just plain wrong. When we are considering the value of a Mormon collection the view of a Mormon should (in my humble opinion) be of little weight to both Logos and the customer base for a whole host of reasons. Coversely the view of a Mormon on Hambergers and fries is as likely to be as valid as anyone here, but the two situations are not analogous. 

 

Mike, while I still stand by what I said, I was my own victim of skimming the thread and conflating my perception with other threads when I replied.  Most of the conversation here was fairly sane.  I was thinking of other threads that went over the top.  whether or not the "two situations are analogous" or not, i suppose I can leave that to you, but my point is, this is a software company that helps with Bible and theology study.  I have thousands of works in this, with which i agree and disagree.  I get what will be helpful to me in my studies.  I don't feel the need to rant against X, Y, or Z.  I am trying to point out that what Logos offers does not change my viewpoint or theology, just by offering it.  This website and forum IS kind of like the hamburger check-out line.  It's about how to use the software and about the resources the software company is selling.  it's not the Harvard Yard or Areopagus or Mel's Diner.  

Overall we find ourselves pretty much in happy agreement.

Posts 451
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 6:26 AM

BriM:

It would be nice if resources like this could be compartmentalised so that they would only be searched if explicitly selected. I realise I could create a collection of "Mainstream Christian Resources" or similar and search that, but I tend to search my whole library and I guess many people do the same. I'm thinking that a checkbox option like full or restricted search, together with the ability to over-ride what resources go in these would satisfy people of theological persuasions.

Doing a search that's restricted to a collection is almost exactly what you just described there. I would just stick with that, personally I think having another function that's accomplishes the same thing in a slightly different way would only be confusing, besides cluttering the interface. To make it even easier, start the collection name with an asterisk (e.g. "*Resources I Agree With") so it comes up first in the list.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 7:30 AM

BriM:
A concern I have though with this and the Islam and eastern resources is that a general search through one's library may give hits in these resources. If the resource title isn't a give away and the topic that is pulled up isn't way off, some people might end up absorbing non-mainstream-Christian teaching unintentionally.

Then they would become victims of their own sloppy study habits. They also cannot have a firm grasp of their own beliefs if they are that easily swayed.

Posts 8967
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 7:56 AM

Jack Caviness:
Then they would become victims of their own sloppy study habits. They also cannot have a firm grasp of their own beliefs if they are that easily swayed.

Very well stated Jack.   If I trusted every thing my resources said when I run a Logos search, I would be a very messed up and doctrinally confused individual.  If I removed all resources from my Logos library that have some error in doctrine, I would have a one Book library left. 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 2736
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 8:00 AM

Super Tramp:
I would have a one Book library left.

What translation? Stick out tongue

Bohuslav

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 9:22 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
What translation? Stick out tongue

Great Humour!                    Indeed!                           Thank you!

                                                             2 Thessalonians 3:16

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 8967
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 9:37 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:

Super Tramp:
I would have a one Book library left.

What translation? Stick out tongue

HaHa!      I won't say which. Big Smile  But I will say it wouldn't be NIV 2011. Wink

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 130
Willard Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 9:50 AM

Joshua G:

I think it is clear that Logos intends these resources to be used for apologetic reasons - much like with the Islamic collection. I would have an issue with Logos marketing and labeling the Book of Mormon as a "Christian" resource. However, they have not - so I am fine with this collection. 

 

The same with the Catholic Collection?

 

Posts 451
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 10:38 AM

Hey, Martin Luther was a Catholic!

I'm using "was" in a very strict sense here...

Posts 130
Willard Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 10:51 AM

mitchellisdumb:

Hey, Martin Luther was a Catholic!

I'm using "was" in a very strict sense here...

Luther was the Father of the Reformation. EDIT: > Luther has been referred to as the Father of the Reformation. Have you studied why The roman church needed Reformation?

Reform:

 1a : to put or change into an improved form or condition.

b : to amend or improve by change of form or removal of faults or abuses.

2: to put an end to (an evil) by enforcing or introducing a better method or course of action.

3: to induce or cause to abandon evil ways <reform a drunkard>

 (Per Webster)



Martin Luther  
"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist."  (Aug. 18, 1520) Taken from The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Vol. 2., pg. 121 by Froom.  (In response to a papal bull [official decree]): "I despise and attack it, as impious, false... It is Christ Himself who is condemned therein... I rejoice in having to bear such ills for the best of causes. Already I feel greater liberty in my heart; for at last I know that the pope is antichrist, and that his throne is that of Satan himself." --D'Aubigné, b.6, ch. 9. 
Posts 451
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 12:44 PM

I realize who Luther was, I was just having a bit of fun with words. I stand by my statement that Luther was Catholic. He just didn't stay Catholic. 

Posts 1145
William | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 1:45 PM

I would say a very large percentage of us are catholic along with Luther.

 

cath•o•lic \ˈkath-lik, ˈka-thə-\ noun  15th century

: a person who belongs to the universal Christian church

Posts 130
Willard Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 2:01 PM

William Bingham:

I would say a very large percentage of us are catholic along with Luther.

 

cath•o•lic \ˈkath-lik, ˈka-thə-\ noun  15th century

: a person who belongs to the universal Christian church

I invite you to read it again.

Martin Luther  
"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist."  (Aug. 18, 1520) Taken from The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Vol. 2., pg. 121 by Froom.  (In response to a papal bull [official decree]): "I despise and attack it, as impious, false... It is Christ Himself who is condemned therein... I rejoice in having to bear such ills for the best of causes. Already I feel greater liberty in my heart; for at last I know that the pope is antichrist, and that his throne is that of Satan himself." --D'Aubigné, b.6, ch. 9. 

Luther was not speaking of the "small c" catholics. He specifically wrote of the papacy of the "large C" Roman Catholic organization.

Anyone acquainted with WELS should know this...and should not be muddying the waters with such rhetoric !

Read what true Lutherans have to say about the papacy here:

  http://www.wels.net/about-wels/doctrinal-statements/antichrist

Posts 117
Dennis Parish | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 2:03 PM

Do not feed the troll!

Posts 26512
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 2:13 PM

Mike Pettit:
to do so you have to be scrupulously fair but fairness is very different to neutrality. 

I think of it a little differently. When I read a novel, I suspend my disbelief - that is I get into the story as if it were real world while knowing I'm reading a book of fiction. I do something similar when reading theological books - I read it as if it were true. I observe places where the logic is bad or has holes in it from the perspective of the author. It i after I put the book down, that I evaluate it in terms of what I believe to be true. That's what I mean by neutrality.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 2:14 PM

MJ. Smith:

Has it occurred to you that there are Mormon users of Logos? Just saying - don't assume that it's only of use for apologetics.

Yes

 

Posts 26512
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 2:19 PM

BriM:
but I tend to search my whole library and I guess many people do the same. I'm thinking that a checkbox option like full or restricted search, together with the ability to over-ride what resources go in these would satisfy people of theological persuasions.

Now that we have the ability to search "My Content" I doubt I will ever search my whole library again. I suspect there is enough difference in what resources one considers reliable that the current method of the user defining the collection that is "all my library worth searching" themselves is better than Logos trying to define it for us.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 26512
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 28 2012 2:25 PM

deleted - a fun fact that might be misconstrued as troll food - see H. H. Pope Shenouda III to guess what I might have been thinking ... always ready to broaden your horizons.Big Smile

From 1999 http://www.lutheranworld.org/Special_Events/OfficialDocuments/jd97.EN.html re: Lutherans and Catholics.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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