GENERAL: Looking for a source

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Feb 1 2012 2:51 PM

Does anyone know of a source that identifies allusions to the Law in the OT outside the Torah? Or that matches the sins of the people in the OT to the laws that were broken? If you don't know a source, any ideas on how  one might go about building such lists?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Dennis Parish | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 7:21 PM

I really doubt I can help but I would like to better understand the request. 

A. allusions (located outside the Torah) referencing (the Law in the OT)?

  1. Is there any bounds on "outside the Torah" (e.g., but within OT & Deuterocanonical & NT)?
  2. Need specification of "Law in the OT"

B. allusions (located ?) referencing [Law in the (OT-Torah)]?

  1. Need bounds on location of allusions (include Talumd, Midrash, DSS, Patristics, ???)
  2. Need location of Law  in (OT-Torah)

C.??

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 8:37 PM

I was thinking of allusions in the LXX canon, although I'd be satisfied with the Masoretic canon, to the (613 mitzvot) laws as specified in the Torah. I'd wondered about this before but I was just reading Jeremiah and noted that the verse clearly alluded to the law specifying when you may justifiably kill a thief in your house. That got me thinking about the issue again ... it seems like something the  Bible list-makers should have done.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 8:49 PM

Well, here's a list of the 613 mitzvot, with Scripture references. I suppose you could go through each one of them and look for cross-references to find mentions of when those laws were broken or alluded to elsewhere in the OT.

EDIT: You could contact Tracey Rich, the creator of that site, who has put many years into creating it, and see if she's already done any work towards the kind of list you're looking for. I found her email address through her domain registration: jewfaq (at) aol (dot) com.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 9:04 PM

Rosie Perera:

I think I've actually got a PB of those, that I've forgotten about (though I believe I took mine from Wikipedia). If anyone wants it, I can post it tomorrow (just closing down now).

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 9:19 PM

This might be a useful resource in creating your list: The 613 Mitzvot: A Contemporary Guide to the Commandments of Judaism (by Ronald L. Eisenberg). Not available in Logos (yet), but it would be a good one for Logos to get. Eisenberg is also the author of The JPS Guide to Jewish Traditions, which is available in Logos.

But nothing would beat reading through the entire OT with a fine-toothed comb, looking at every turn for things that might be allusions to the 613 mitzvot. You'll probably catch some that others have missed if you do that.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 10:15 PM

Eisenberg is out of print and very expensive on alibris (better on Amazon), I may need to see if I can borrow it from my cousin's wife - she's on the board of her synagogue so there's a chance she has it.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 10:41 PM

It's available new from Blackwell's Bookshop (UK) for £13.20 about ($21 USD):

http://bookshop.blackwell.co.uk/jsp/welcome.jsp?action=search&type=isbn&term=0884003337&awaid=65769&awgid=0&awbid=0&awid=65769&awpid=0&awcr=&src=awin

EDIT: Oops, I just realized it's not actually available for online purchase there.

Also, the first 45 pages are previewable on Google Books.

EDIT 2: OK, I found it new for £ 22.50 (approx. $US 35.48) on http://www.bookbase.com/search?search=%2CbookId%3D58531&dealer_id=596

Even better, Amazon.fr has it in stock (one copy only) for EUR 20.82 (about $27.45): http://www.amazon.fr/dp/0884003337. I've ordered from international Amazons before, and they all use the same account as your US login. Shipping charges are more, though, and it takes longer to get, of course.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 11:15 PM

Thanks for the info. Now you need to say you're welcome for the 10,000 post! I used to order from Blackwells regularly  ... but I'd all but forgotten of it as a place to look.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 11:35 PM

MJ. Smith:

Thanks for the info. Now you need to say you're welcome for the 10,000 post! I used to order from Blackwells regularly  ... but I'd all but forgotten of it as a place to look.

I didn't look there. I looked in http://www.bookfinder.com which is a meta-book-search site. It searches them all - Amazon, Alibris, Powell's, ABE Books, eBay, Barnes & Noble, the Book Depository, Biblio.com, Overstock.com, eCampus.com, TomFolio.com, etc. Both listings services themselves as well as bookstores directly.

There, now there's my 10,000th post for everyone to jump all over. Smile

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 1 2012 11:36 PM

Rosie Perera:
There, now there's my 10,000th post for everyone to jump all over. Smile

Congratulations! Cake

 

Edit: to capture it:

 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 2 2012 2:17 PM

MJ. Smith:
my cousin's wife - she's on the board of her synagogue

Is there any religion or denomination you don't have close ties to? Big Smile

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 2 2012 5:23 PM

fgh:
Is there any religion or denomination you don't have close ties to? Big Smile

I'm short on Jains and Sikhs. Wink Unless you count the cab drivers when I fly into the Oakland, California airportWink

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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