Stop Logos from re-inserting itself in the Start menu every time it updates

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This post has 25 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 106
Bruce Fraser | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Feb 6 2012 12:06 PM

Each and every time Logos updates, it adds itself to the Windows Start menu. It's getting tiresome to keep on removing it. I already have it on my menu in the place I desire. (Do the Logos programmers really think we all start Logos by navigating to the Logos folder in Explorer and manually running the program, and thus they are doing us a huge favour by adding it to the Start menu?)

How do I stop this annoyance?

Posts 901
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 6 2012 12:10 PM

Interesting.  I've never had this happen to me on Win 7, Win Vista, or Win XP.  Sorry, all I can offer is negative confirmation...

 

"I read dead people..."

Posts 19139
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 6 2012 12:21 PM

Ditto, I've never experienced this. I have no idea what could be causing it. You might need to contact Logos tech support about it.

Posts 2273
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 6 2012 3:23 PM

I don't have a solution, but I can confirm that it happens to me as well in WinXP SP3. I just drag the shortcut to my preferred location and it replaces the outdated shortcut.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 106
Bruce Fraser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 8 2012 7:52 AM

David Thomas:
I just drag the shortcut to my preferred location and it replaces the outdated shortcut.

But the problem is that the original shortcut is not outdated. The locations of the Logos folder and executable have not changed. This extra Logos shortcut is a redundant and useless annoyance.

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 8 2012 8:12 AM

Bruce Fraser:
How do I stop this annoyance?

I don't need it there either but I do not see it as annoyance since most programs I install create whether a folder with icons or (as in Logos case) just one icon to start the program. Nothing special about Logos in this IMHO.

Bohuslav

Posts 106
Bruce Fraser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 8 2012 8:33 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
most programs I install

Yes, that is entirely true -- WHEN the program is first installed. Most programs stop there, though.

My point is that there is no need to keep adding these shortcuts every time Logos updates.

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 8 2012 8:43 AM

Bruce Fraser:
My point is that there is no need to keep adding these shortcuts every time Logos updates.

I understand and actually I agree. I noticed also that the desktop icon always moves to the different location each time Logos re-installs. It would be nice if it would respect the location for the icon on the desktop also.

Bohuslav

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 8 2012 11:10 AM

Wonder about a suggestion for Logos to add custom installation option for shortcut location ?

Note: personally use desktop icon (via desktop toolbar on my taskbar) with desktop view to not show any icons.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 19139
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 8 2012 12:24 PM

This undesirable behavior seems to be specific only to some users, thus I suspect it is a bug. Need someone from Logos to weigh in on it, diagnose what causes it, inform of workaround and/or fix it. I'll pass the word on to someone in Testing.

Posts 9015
LogosEmployee

Bruce Fraser:

Each and every time Logos updates, it adds itself to the Windows Start menu. It's getting tiresome to keep on removing it. I already have it on my menu in the place I desire. (Do the Logos programmers really think we all start Logos by navigating to the Logos folder in Explorer and manually running the program, and thus they are doing us a huge favour by adding it to the Start menu?)

How do I stop this annoyance?

The shortcut on the Start Menu is considered (by Windows Installer) to be a core part of the installation (just like the System files that are installed), and will be replaced whenever the current installation is repaired, or an upgraded MSI is installed. This is by design.

We add a shortcut to the Start Menu because that's part of the Windows User Interface guidelines for installers. From http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa511447.aspx:

  • During setup, don't provide an option to put the program shortcut in the Start menu. Do this automatically.
  • Use only a single shortcut per program on the Start menu.
  • Eliminate unnecessary folders by putting programs at the top level or in a single product folder. Generally, your program should have a single shortcut on the Start menu.
  • Locate program shortcuts in the top level of All Programs. The improved scalability of the Start menu in Windows 7 and Windows Vista makes programs easier to find at the top level.

 

Posts 19139
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 9 2012 4:48 AM

I'm seeing a disconnect between what Bruce is saying, what several others of us on this thread are saying, and what Bradley is saying. I'm thinking that I for one perhaps didn't understand Bruce's frustration properly. Let me ask for further clarification from both Bruce and Bradley:

Bruce Fraser:

Each and every time Logos updates, it adds itself to the Windows Start menu.  It's getting tiresome to keep on removing it.

I have never removed the Logos icon from my Start menu, so I can't really say "I've never experienced this" as I said before. However I am not sure why you need to keep removing it. What is wrong with leaving it there? I am assuming that you are referring to the icon that you navigate to by clicking the Start menu, then All Programs. Am I wrong? I have that icon there too, and I never use it. The one I use is the one I pinned to my start menu once by right-clicking on the other one and choosing "Pin to Start Menu" -- so it's easily accessible with one click of the Start button without having to navigate further. Actually I'm using Windows 7 so I also have pinned a Logos icon to my Task Bar and I pretty much use that one to start Logos exclusively. But I don't find having the other ones there as well an annoyance. Could you elaborate on why you need to keep removing the one that seems to be redundant for you?

Bruce Fraser:
I already have it on my menu in the place I desire.

Where do you have it if not in either of the two places I described? Once you put it there, does it not continue to function properly for you without you removing the one you consider to be redundant? A menu icon is simply a shortcut to run the program. Theoretically, nothing changes about it when you update the installation, as long as the installation goes in't the same folder. So your custom-placed icon should be fine and keep working no matter if Logos keeps putting it back in the other place you removed it from.

Bruce Fraser:

(Do the Logos programmers really think we all start Logos by navigating to the Logos folder in Explorer and manually running the program, and thus they are doing us a huge favour by adding it to the Start menu?)

This is the part of your post that really confused me the most. I'm genuinely curious: Could you explain to me how Logos installing an icon on your start menu implies expecting people to manually navigate to the Logos folder in Explorer and run the program from there? The whole point of an icon on the start menu is it's a shortcut so you don't have to manually navigate to the Logos folder to start the program. I must be missing something in your critique.

Bradley Grainger:

The shortcut on the Start Menu is considered (by Windows Installer) to be a core part of the installation (just like the System files that are installed), and will be replaced whenever the current installation is repaired, or an upgraded MSI is installed. This is by design.

Bradley, I'm still puzzled (as you can see above) by why Logos's default behavior bothers Bruce. But giving him the benefit of the doubt for now, many installers have an option, if you go through the "custom" track, of checking or unchecking a box that says something along the lines of "Put an icon on the Start menu" -- see for example:

Why couldn't Logos do this?

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Forum MVP
Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 9 2012 6:35 AM

Bruce Fraser:

Each and every time Logos updates, it adds itself to the Windows Start menu. It's getting tiresome to keep on removing it. I already have it on my menu in the place I desire. (Do the Logos programmers really think we all start Logos by navigating to the Logos folder in Explorer and manually running the program, and thus they are doing us a huge favour by adding it to the Start menu?)

How do I stop this annoyance?

If you rearrange the Windows Start menu location for Logos, the next time you install an update Logos, looks for the Start Menu item where it's "supposed to be," sees that it's not there and inserts it where it thinks it should be.

This is not new, nor is it unique to Logos.

On my last machine (also XP), this was a regular occurrence with Libronix as well. I have a few programs in Win7 that do the same. For example, I put all my Google apps under one folder. The next time they updated, they inserted shortcuts into to their original location (so I have some doubles there too).

A somewhat related issue is that Logos will put in a new desktop shortcut, if you rename the installed one. For example, if you wanted to rename the current L4 shortcut from Logos Bible Software 4 to Logos4, the next time Logos updates you will have a new shortcut on your desktop named Logos Bible Software 4, along side your Logos4 shortcut. Both will point to the same program, location, etc.

The only way I know of to stop the annoyance is to let Logos do what it does and stop being annoyed by it. I'm not trying to be glib, it's really the only thing I know to do. This is what I've been doing with Logos and other programs that do this.

Logos could deal with this, if they went outside the apparent installation protocols for a Windows program and looked to see if Logos was already installed, and if so, did not install any shortcuts to the desktop nor start menu. IMHO, there are bigger fish to fry in Bellingham than that.

It's possible that there is a registry item that tells the Logos installation how the start menu items for Logos is structured, but I wouldn't know how to look for it, nor how to edit it to get the results I wanted.

Bottom Line: custom installations and editing of standard installations will result in unwanted results by some programs sooner or later. Where I once tried to keep my start menu organized into more usable categories (e.g. Productivity, Utilities, Games, etc.), I've simply given up. It's not worth the time nor the effort, especially since I never know which programs will reinsert themselves into their default start menu locations every time I update them.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 19139
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 9 2012 6:48 AM

Richard DeRuiter:
Bottom Line: custom installations and editing of standard installations will result in unwanted results by some programs sooner or later. Where I once tried to keep my start menu organized into more usable categories (e.g. Productivity, Utilities, Games, etc.), I've simply given up. It's not worth the time nor the effort, especially since I never know which programs will reinsert themselves into their default start menu locations every time I update them.

Also, Bruce, I don't know if you're using Windows 7 yet or not, but as of Win 7, you can press the Windows key on your keyboard and type in the first few letters of the program you're trying to run and hit Enter, and not have to find it anywhere on your Start menu. For me, lo is sufficient to find Logos as the first  hit.

I pretty much ignore all the icons that are on the main part of the start menu (under All Programs) and only use the most commonly used ones in the Pin to Start Menu area. There you can rename them to your heart's content and no installation program will mess that up or put new icons in that area for you. For any other program not that commonly used, I use the method of typing the first few letters of its name.

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 9 2012 7:25 AM

Rosie Perera:
I pretty much ignore all the icons that are on the main part of the start menu (under All Programs) and only use the most commonly used ones in the Pin to Start Menu area. There you can rename them to your heart's content and no installation program will mess that up or put new icons in that area for you. For any other program not that commonly used, I use the method of typing the first few letters of its name.

Yes

Same here.

BTW Bruce, I was thinking that this is a suggestion for Logos, and should be in that forum.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 9015
LogosEmployee

Rosie Perera:

Why couldn't Logos do this?

This is code we'd have to write, test, localize, maintain, and document, solely for the purpose of violating the Microsoft Windows design guidelines I quoted above. Moreover, if a novice user mistakenly unchecked this setting, they might not be able to find out how to launch the app, resulting in a call to CS. (So we won't be adding such an option.)

(See also http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert/archive/2003/10/28/53298.aspx for a tongue-in-cheek look at "why" many things don't get implemented.)

Posts 19139
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 9 2012 8:06 AM

Bradley Grainger:

Rosie Perera:

Why couldn't Logos do this?

This is code we'd have to write, test, localize, maintain, and document, solely for the purpose of violating the Microsoft Windows design guidelines I quoted above. Moreover, if a novice user mistakenly unchecked this setting, they might not be able to find out how to launch the app, resulting in a call to CS. (So we won't be adding such an option.)

(See also http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert/archive/2003/10/28/53298.aspx for a tongue-in-cheek look at "why" many things don't get implemented.)

Great explanation. Thanks, Bradley! And thanks for that humorous and revealing link. Smile

 

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 9 2012 8:29 AM

Bradley Grainger:
(See also http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert/archive/2003/10/28/53298.aspx for a tongue-in-cheek look at "why" many things don't get implemented.)

Thanks for the entertaining read. I could not help but notice the first reader comment following the article:

           Robert Sayre   28 Oct 2003 6:05 PM   What a fantastic argument for Open Source!       Big Smile

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 1984
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 9 2012 9:54 AM

Rosie Perera:
Also, Bruce, I don't know if you're using Windows 7 yet or not, but as of Win 7, you can press the Windows key on your keyboard and type in the first few letters of the program you're trying to run and hit Enter, and not have to find it anywhere on your Start menu. For me, lo is sufficient to find Logos as the first  hit.

Another Windows 7 trick is that you can press the Windows key and then a number key (e.g. 1-9) that corresponds to your pinned program start icons relative to the Start button. For example, for me Outlook is the 4th pinned icon from the Start button. So "Windows key + 4" will start Outlook.

Donnie

 

Posts 19139
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 9 2012 9:59 AM

Donnie Hale:
Another Windows 7 trick is that you can press the Windows key and then a number key (e.g. 1-9) that corresponds to your pinned program start icons relative to the Start button. For example, for me Outlook is the 4th pinned icon from the Start button. So "Windows key + 4" will start Outlook.

Cool! I never knew that. Seems to be the Taskbar icons you are talking about. At first I thought you meant the ones pinned to the start menu.

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