New Interpreter's Bible (12 Vols.) - Pre-Publication Examples

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This post has 271 Replies | 7 Followers

Posts 171
Adam Rao | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 2:28 PM

Any chance we're actually going to see the NIB finished for Logos? For that matter, the NIDB, too?

Posts 2946
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 3:26 PM

Adam Rao:

Any chance we're actually going to see the NIB finished for Logos? For that matter, the NIDB, too?

I am going to say yes.  The question is when.  I will even say that this will happen before Jesus comes back.  

Now, how much time between NIB in Logos and Jesus' second coming is any one guess.

Posts 254
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 10:58 PM

Dan Francis:

I apologize for not responding earlier. I feel it would be most valuable to have it in Logos.. you can purchase it on CDROM or via ministry matters subscription.

-Dan

Thanks, Dan. It's good to know that those are options if the NIB doesn't make it to Logos.

Posts 2507
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 25 2013 6:03 PM

Sogol:

Dan Francis:

I apologize for not responding earlier. I feel it would be most valuable to have it in Logos.. you can purchase it on CDROM or via ministry matters subscription.

-Dan

Thanks, Dan. It's good to know that those are options if the NIB doesn't make it to Logos.

I just learned a competitor is working on it now… no release date but it will be coming to a good platform in the near future. The platform is currently only Mac compatible but they have announced a windows version sometime this spring. Logos had their chance but if it makes it to a software many feel is equal to superior, I would doubt it will find enough pre pub orders to make it to Logos. Logos is nicer for copying citations i will say.

-Dan

Posts 254
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 25 2013 7:19 PM

Dan Francis:

I just learned a competitor is working on it now… no release date but it will be coming to a good platform in the near future. The platform is currently only Mac compatible but they have announced a windows version sometime this spring. Logos had their chance but if it makes it to a software many feel is equal to superior, I would doubt it will find enough pre pub orders to make it to Logos. Logos is nicer for copying citations i will say.

-Dan

It would be pretty sad if the other guys had this but Logos did not.

Posts 2507
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 25 2013 7:38 PM

Sogol:
It would be pretty sad if the other guys had this but Logos did not.

I agree with you but the other company desires to have it and is willing to invest in it, and I know they won't regret it. Logos has a business plan and if it was the only option I am sure  they would get it, but with a faster program getting it and it coming to windows platform, I can see little reason for someone not going there unless they refuse to use anything but Logos which is of course a valid option, but for me I will happily get it on either platform when it is available, and really I don't see it coming to Logos anytime soon. There is not enough desire for it from their user base and many people i have talked to said while they would like NIB in a good computer format but they have no interest in pre ordering it or even in investing in a Logos base package.

-Dan

Posts 254
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 26 2013 2:20 PM

Dan Francis:

I agree with you but the other company desires to have it and is willing to invest in it, and I know they won't regret it. Logos has a business plan and if it was the only option I am sure  they would get it, but with a faster program getting it and it coming to windows platform, I can see little reason for someone not going there unless they refuse to use anything but Logos which is of course a valid option, but for me I will happily get it on either platform when it is available, and really I don't see it coming to Logos anytime soon. There is not enough desire for it from their user base and many people i have talked to said while they would like NIB in a good computer format but they have no interest in pre ordering it or even in investing in a Logos base package.

-Dan

 

Does Logos ever put resources intro production without getting the full number of pre-orders they originally wanted? Or have they ever lowered the number of pre-orders that are needed?

If not, I'm just wondering if there's any hope that this will ever come to Logos. Like you said, some of the Logos pre-orders will likely be lost to whichever platform gets it first. And if Logos cannot even get enough orders for it now, then I don't know how they will ever get them once it's available elsewhere. 

Posts 2160
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 26 2013 2:42 PM

Dan Francis:

Sogol:
It would be pretty sad if the other guys had this but Logos did not.

I agree with you but the other company desires to have it and is willing to invest in it, and I know they won't regret it.

-Dan

I agree also.  I would much prefer Logos to have NIB and NIBD.  However, I understand Logos' position, too.  They have to consider it from a business prospective.

I have so much invested in Logos resources that I will always use and buy resources from Logos first.  However, I have come to realize that I cannot totally rely on Logos resources. I already have bought a number of books in other formats because they are not available in Logos. 

Many books are just as useful in other formats, but not commentaries.  Reference works, such and NIB or NIBD would be much more helpful tagged and integrated into my Logos library.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 2946
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 26 2013 4:36 PM

Sogol:

Dan Francis:

I agree with you but the other company desires to have it and is willing to invest in it, and I know they won't regret it. Logos has a business plan and if it was the only option I am sure  they would get it, but with a faster program getting it and it coming to windows platform, I can see little reason for someone not going there unless they refuse to use anything but Logos which is of course a valid option, but for me I will happily get it on either platform when it is available, and really I don't see it coming to Logos anytime soon. There is not enough desire for it from their user base and many people i have talked to said while they would like NIB in a good computer format but they have no interest in pre ordering it or even in investing in a Logos base package.

-Dan

 

Does Logos ever put resources intro production without getting the full number of pre-orders they originally wanted? Or have they ever lowered the number of pre-orders that are needed?

If not, I'm just wondering if there's any hope that this will ever come to Logos. Like you said, some of the Logos pre-orders will likely be lost to whichever platform gets it first. And if Logos cannot even get enough orders for it now, then I don't know how they will ever get them once it's available elsewhere. 

I can say that I am now considering the other platform once it comes to Windows.  I will always use Logos, but I have almost stopped all of my purchases from Logos.

Posts 254
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 27 2013 5:14 PM

tom:
I can say that I am now considering the other platform once it comes to Windows.  I will always use Logos, but I have almost stopped all of my purchases from Logos.

Tom - can I ask more specifically why you have stopped all Logos purchases? Is it that you prefer the other platform, or is it the NIB/NIDB issue? (or both) 

Posts 1529
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 27 2013 7:18 PM

Sogol:

Does Logos ever put resources intro production without getting the full number of pre-orders they originally wanted? Or have they ever lowered the number of pre-orders that are needed?

As most items are fully paid for Logos MIGHT consider allowing SOME SPECIAL items slide.  There are some items that are a MUST HAVE and, over time, they will sell.  

As in if Logos sells XXX then sales of base packages will go up [maybe].  They most likely will not do it too often [at least not any time soon] 

Maybe some day they will have made enough extra money to even fund the Coptic Dictionary [not sure of my spelling] and still let us have it at a cheep price.  

Posts 2507
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 27 2013 10:48 PM

I would also guess if Logos had any intention on putting it into production before their preorder quota, they would not have revised the orders needed to such a level as to make it appear we are not close to it being under contract. I don't fault Logos for not knowing the final costs, but I still use the analogy of a Vegan restaurant trying to introduce meat. If it's available you might find many people who want it and gladly eat there, if you have to preorder a steak that might never show up, you are just as likely to go elsewhere to find yourself a juicy steak. A large portion of Logos users I am sure have decided it is far to–liberal or too catholic or simply not right for them for one reason or another. It does amaze me that Interpretation is in Logos and not the NIB. Many of the same authors and Interpretation is no less liberal, indeed I would say there are more evangelical scholars in NIB than it. Although personally to me using both sets regularly I will say for the most part NIB is far more in-depth and more helpful. I will miss not having full integration into Logos, but I will be very happy to have it available not only on my iPad/iPhone and Macbook, but also on my old iMac G5, so all in all it's not a horrible thing to me. It is so odd that a Large company like Logos cannot afford to produce it while a much smaller company can undertake it. Perhaps more mac users want it or they see it as too key a resource not to have.

-Dan

Posts 1529
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 28 2013 4:52 AM

XXXXXXXX:

There have to be, some more people who can help in getting this series to the go phase, COME onLightningSmile. Lets say you order it and after lets say TWENTY days of comparison in the privacy of your home you can simple call and have it voided out. So for the REST  of the logos family who REALLLLY want this...... you know what to do  IdeaLeft Hug

After the sixth, maybe the fourth, time that 86% of the 'buyers" back out on day 21 the new rule for CP and Pre-pub will be NO RETURNS and Credit Card charged when you sign up for the item.  [Other NEW RULES might be: Losing Bids will be refunded and the difference between your higher bid and the final price will be returned but once placed you may NOT reduce or cancel your bid.  OR MAYBE half your bid as a SERVICE CHARGE if you back out]

[[Don't bite the hand that feeds you]]  

Posts 2507
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 28 2013 10:31 AM

David Ames:

After the sixth, maybe the fourth, time that 86% of the 'buyers" back out on day 21 the new rule for CP and Pre-pub will be NO RETURNS and Credit Card charged when you sign up for the item.  [Other NEW RULES might be: Losing Bids will be refunded and the difference between your higher bid and the final price will be returned but once placed you may NOT reduce or cancel your bid.  OR MAYBE half your bid as a SERVICE CHARGE if you back out]

[[Don't bite the hand that feeds you]]  

Well I disagree with you strongly there… If these rules ever went into effect I would rarely do this. I have had to back out because of low funds at times and twice I have got the product only to discover they were completely wrong for me. I personally did not like the ECC it sounded good but after I got the first volume I released this was most certainly not something I wanted to own. I can tell you had I been forced to keep it I would almost assuredly never bought anything from Logos again. I do not bid on or pre-purchase anything I do not actually want. But release dates are always unknown and when too many come up at once or come up at the wrong time, I have had to cancel.

-dan

Posts 3540
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 28 2013 12:15 PM

Dan Francis:

 I do not bid on or pre-purchase anything I do not actually want. But release dates are always unknown and when too many come up at once or come up at the wrong time, I have had to cancel.

This is inevitable, especially considering the unknown-until-the-last-minute process and the propensity for items to go live in clumps. Logos must live with its own awkward circumstances, just like we must.

Posts 171
Adam Rao | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 28 2013 3:03 PM

Dan Francis:

It does amaze me that Interpretation is in Logos and not the NIB. Many of the same authors and Interpretation is no less liberal, indeed I would say there are more evangelical scholars in NIB than it. Although personally to me using both sets regularly I will say for the most part NIB is far more in-depth and more helpful. I will miss not having full integration into Logos, but I will be very happy to have it available not only on my iPad/iPhone and Macbook, but also on my old iMac G5, so all in all it's not a horrible thing to me. It is so odd that a Large company like Logos cannot afford to produce it while a much smaller company can undertake it. Perhaps more mac users want it or they see it as too key a resource not to have.

-Dan

If "the other company" does, in fact, get NIB, that'd be great, but I don't plan on rushing back. After all, Interpretation isn't available for Accordance, and it's one of the main reasons I switched to Logos! The same goes for Anchor Yale Bible, which is an outstanding resource to have digitally.

Logos needs to "catch up" when it comes to scholarly, mainstream resources for sure – Along with NIDB and NIB, where's NETS, for example? OTL/NTL? But, overall, I haven't regretted moving to Logos. Having Interpretation and AYB available digitally has made a world of difference for me.

I'm still hopeful we'll see NIDB and NIB for Logos, though. We'll see...

Posts 1529
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 28 2013 3:55 PM

Dan Francis:

David Ames:

After the sixth, maybe the fourth, time that 86% of the 'buyers" back out on day 21 the new rule for CP and Pre-pub will be NO RETURNS 

Well I disagree with you strongly there… 

I agree that rule changes would upset things. I try to only bid on item that I intend to buy.  and Yes, funds run out - or too many in one month and no payment plan.

But I also asked that if that happens many times [I used as an example 86% of buyers backing out] how do we expect the company, that only puts books into production after getting enough buyers lined up to cover the cost, to react - after only getting 10% of the cost in hard cash over and over again - with maybe the same set of customers doing it over and over again?

I am OK with backing out - no funds, poor explication of the resource, needs change over time, etc but what I objected to was soliciting bids that were never intended to be executed.  And asked how would Logos react if that was done a few times?  [maybe with the same customers returning the resources over and over again - or maybe those customers would be locked out - No, better idea, just don't count their bids! [and no one knows that there is a Hidden BAD customer list]  ]

Peace - This set is out of my range.  Hope you get it in a reasonable time.  

Posts 2507
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 28 2013 6:01 PM

David Ames:
I am OK with backing out - no funds, poor explication of the resource, needs change over time, etc but what I objected to was soliciting bids that were never intended to be executed.

Very understandable… But what i meant to encourage was people buying it and examine it for a month (only cancelling before it shipped ONLY if it was not affordable at publication date), I honestly feel that if people examine and use it they would find it as invaluable enough to want to keep it. 

-dan

PS: I am in no way trying to say that I will leave Logos nor am I trying to encourage people to either. I have an extensive Logos Library and unless there was some miracle to move them over to one platform I will not consider leaving Logos, word search, or Olive tree, to be an Accordance only user. My Accordance and Logos programs are my primary ones supplemented by the other 2. I love the speed and responsiveness of Accordance, i enjoy the innovative guides you find in Logos, I have been using OT in mobile worlds since Palm and find their mobile Bible to be second to none for speed and features on a mobile device. WS just has a few items not available elsewhere, and did a lovely job with the expanded Feating on the Word (I had the original terrible WJKP CDROM which was basically a PDF viewer, and was given a free update to the WS version which includes the bonus volumes not offered in the Logos pre pub.) I have only a few other items in WS and their iPad software is virtually useless navigation of the library is nearly impossible at times as is navigation in many books. While I may not like everything about Logos' iOS app, it is usable and the majority of my books are available for download to the device. I would still like a simple PG for offline use, but realize the reasons for having it off device.

Posts 2946
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 1 2013 4:53 PM

Sogol:

tom:
I can say that I am now considering the other platform once it comes to Windows.  I will always use Logos, but I have almost stopped all of my purchases from Logos.

Tom - can I ask more specifically why you have stopped all Logos purchases? Is it that you prefer the other platform, or is it the NIB/NIDB issue? (or both) 

Hi Sogol,

I have not stopped; I have almost stopped, and there are several reasons for this.  The main one is my role as changed.  I am now a chaplain for a local heath care provider and I am also a chaplain for a local hospice organization.  I currently do not write sermons or a Bible study every week.

Thus, most of what Logos offers does not fit my need.  And what Logos has as it relates to spiritual care is simply garbage (IMHO).  The only package that I know of that I would purchase (if I didn't have all the books in hard cover to begin with) is the Fortress Press Creative Pastoral Care and Counseling Series (http://www.logos.com/product/4739/fortress-press-creative-pastoral-care-and-counseling-series).

This being said, I still do not trust Logos.  This has its roots from the L3 to L4 upgrade.  I lost a lot of personal data in this 'upgrade.'

This lack of trust continues because it doesn't look like Logos does much research with their products.   They get an idea, and go for it with little research. How much of the original logic has had to be rewritten for bugs/performance issues?  I will say a lot of it.  If the research was before hand, a lot of the issues would not have happened, and the team would not be going back again to look for ways to improve the performance of L5.

Another area (IMHO) where they did not do their research is with faithlife (with all of its flavors).  Why did Logos attempt to create a social media website when there are other much cheaper alternatives? Do the alternatives do everything that faithlife.com does?  No.  Still, the question IMHO is how much value does faithlife.com add to the Logos product line.  For me, that answer is zero.    I realize others will answer that question differently.  And for Logos, the question IMHO that needed to be asked when this product was still in the research stage was, 'Will the cost of creating and maintaining the software and hardware be less than the value it adds to its product line?'  Obviously that thought the answer was yes or else they wouldn't have done it.  Now, if you ask me, if Logos did some good research, they would have a good idea that another social media site for people to visit is not high on people's to-do list.

Logos is not also giving away their Faithlife study Bible.  I like the idea of using this app to bring more people to Logos.  Still, I believe, if they would have done their research, they would not have had the flair-up when they were trying to convince people that they should purchase this app on a subscription base.

Now, Logos is also a travel agent (faithlife tours).  IMHO, booking a trip through a software company is like asking Walmart to build your next home.

Anyway, at one time, I was a Logos only person.  I even moved everything that I had in other software programs into Logos.  This is no longer the case.  I now am willing to use other software programs.  And I will say that is my major change in how I decide to purchase items.

Posts 2507
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 11:35 AM

tom:
Anyway, at one time, I was a Logos only person.  I even moved everything that I had in other software programs into Logos.  This is no longer the case.  I now am willing to use other software programs.  And I will say that is my major change in how I decide to purchase items.

Good Plan. In the same way it might be nice if everything we wanted were in one Bible, it is not a bad thing to use different Bibles with different translations and notes to help further our faith.

-Dan

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