I've been contemplating the purchase of Logos 4 but I'm concerned that, for me, it might be like drinking water from a fire hose. I'm not a scholar...not a college student...not a pastor. I have no interest in word studies or Greek or Hebrew. I'm a 60 year-old lay person who teaches an adult Sunday School class. I enjoy using commentaries, illustrations, and using discussion questions when pulling together a lesson. As I perused the Logos forum I found many of the topics way over my head. The Bible Study Library appears to be the best fit for me; I think the more advanced packages have resources that I would never, ever use.
I guess my question is this...are there many Logos 4 users out there like me? And, if you happen to be one, how about a few words that might push me to click the "Add to Cart" button.
Ralph,
Welcome to the forums.
Have you considered other Bible study software packages? If so how do you view Logos in comparison with them?
In our church I have an adult Sunday School teacher who uses Logos. He has the Bible Study Library but had added some inexpensive Nelson offerings and The Tyndale Commentaries (the Bible Study Library doesn't have much in the way of commentaries and the Tyndale is a good set for a lay person).
While you may not want to get directly involved in Greek and Hebrew you may find the ability to study the original languages in English a plus with Logos. The Bible Study Library has a number of Reverse Interlinear Bibles and tools to help you gain some benefit from the original languages.
Be prepared to spend time learning how to use Logos. It takes awhile. There are some good video tutorials available, and many word and graphical instructions on the Logos wiki (the link is at the top of this page).
Please ask specific questions. Remember, with Logos you have a 30 day full refund option if you just want to try Logos 4 out.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
Ralph - I would add something to what Mark wrote. I think the Bible Study package would be great for you. An added bonus of having Logos, is that you can incorporate Vyrso books into your Logos library. Vyrso is the new "trade" eBook store from Logos. These are the kinds of books you would find at your local "Christian" book store. In my opinion, it is very helpful to have all of your resources in a single, unified program. Logos helps you to do this.
OSX & iOS | Logs | Install
Ralph
I'm not a scholar but I have upgraded over the years to Scholar's Silver. I think Bible Study is a good starting point but its bible commentaries are lacking - I only rate 3 of them better than "Bible Notes" and only 2 cover the whole bible (I don't rate Matthew Henry). So I'd recommend a commentary like Expositor's Bible Commentary at $130, but you might find the Abridged version would equally suit your needs at $56.
Dave===
Windows 10 & Android 8
Also you can read Logos books on Vyrso, which is more comfortable if you have an iPad.
Another consideration to add to your collection of commentaries in the Bible Study Library would be Logos' community pricing. There are one or two sets going through at the moment that may be suitable for you. Do bear in mind (1) that these tend to be older out-of-copyright books, and (2) it can take many months for these resources to make it into production. That said, there are some great resources in there and they tend to go for an absolute bargain!
Ralph Wood: I guess my question is this...are there many Logos 4 users out there like me? And, if you happen to be one, how about a few words that might push me to click the "Add to Cart" button.
Well, I am a 60-some year old lay person who teaches Sunday school. I find the "Opening up" commentary series is great for class work. On the other hand, to get some other commentaries I have since upgraded from Scholar's silver to Scholars platinum and several other individual commentaries. When I study the NT I like to have the Septuagint available and it is not in the Bible Study version. As others have noted, the reverse interlinears are extremely useful. LOGOS is great for sermon prep (I am also a lay speaker).
The program is easy to start but will take a lot of work to learn to use all of its functionality. Also plan on upgrading, you probably will want to. There are a few owners who have put in thousands of dollars in upgrades. I have not yet heard of one who did not.
Bob - 17" MBP quad 2.3GHz 4GB and iMAC
Ralph, I am not a pastor, preacher, I don't teach a class, don't read Greek or Hebrew, am not a college student, and am not a scholar either.I simply enjoy bible study. I would say it all depends on your budget. I became a Logos user in March 1999 and since have accumulated about 1200 books. Today, after having married and having 3 children, I wish I had the money now that I have spent on Logos the last 13 years. Sure , it's a fantastic bible study software but there are free programs that are great for people like you and I. If you've got the extra money then go for it, but if you're on a budget think twice.
Ralph Wood: it might be like drinking water from a fire hose. Try real hard to find someone in your church or local group of churches that uses Logos to show it to you and discuss one on one what to get.Logos is the 2020 Cadillac of Bible software [as in it is ahead of its time]. and some drivers only need a 1969 Pinto [not sure they made Pintos in 1969 but hope you get the idea] [[re the get your money back in 30 days - it takes more then 30 days to learn how to use the POWER - ""I have no interest in word studies or Greek or Hebrew"" Not now but what if they are only a few clicks away?]] Have you ever wondered why God "hardened" Pharaoh’s heart? He DID NOT – He encouraged Pharaoh's heart just as He later did to David – the Hebrew uses the same word “chazaq”. But Pharaoh used his free will to void the will of God. – but to figure that out we need to research the Hebrew and how the Jews understood the actions of God.
Ralph Wood: it might be like drinking water from a fire hose.
Robert Phillips: Ralph Wood: I guess my question is this...are there many Logos 4 users out there like me? And, if you happen to be one, how about a few words that might push me to click the "Add to Cart" button. Well, I am a 60-some year old lay person who teaches Sunday school. I find the "Opening up" commentary series is great for class work. On the other hand, to get some other commentaries I have since upgraded from Scholar's silver to Scholars platinum and several other individual commentaries. When I study the NT I like to have the Septuagint available and it is not in the Bible Study version. As others have noted, the reverse interlinears are extremely useful. LOGOS is great for sermon prep (I am also a lay speaker). The program is easy to start but will take a lot of work to learn to use all of its functionality. Also plan on upgrading, you probably will want to. There are a few owners who have put in thousands of dollars in upgrades. I have not yet heard of one who did not.
I am a 60+ Sunday School teacher. I bought the Bible Study Library 4 1/2 yrs ago. About 6 months later I attended Camp Logos and upgraded to Scholar's Gold. I upgraded to Platinum after Logos 4 came out. I now have over 2100 volumes in my Logos library (plus hundreds in my print library).
Logos was a paradigm shift for me. As Morris Proctor (Camp Logos) says, "You have a research assistant that can find every reference to a word or scripture in your library quickly." I have been able to do all kinds of things in teaching my SS class since adding Logos that would have been impossible otherwise.
When you look at the resources and see those that you don't think you would ever use. Look at all the resources that you will use. You'll also be surprised by how many of the others may have value to you on down the road.
Watch for the sales and Community Pricing titles from Logos. You can even create your own "wish list" as you look at the over 10,000 titles available. There are a number of titles that I would like to own "when the price is right." I have picked up some great bargains over the years.
Watch the free videos from Mark Barnes. Browse the forums. Ask questions when you have a problem. Someone will quickly respond.
Enjoy.
Thanks to all that provided input...I greatly appreciate it. Let me respond to some of the questions and comments...
I haven't spent any time looking into the details of other Bible software. I've heard about Logos for sometime and research using my friend, Google pointed to Logos 4 as the cream of the crop.
Maybe I overstated it when I said I have no interest in the original languages or word studies. I'm always ready to extend my skills and knowledge.
It's the wine more than the wine skin that gives me pause. I'm definitely not in fear of the software itself. I'm a capable learner and my livelihood over the past 30 years has centered around configuring and programming at the enterprise software level. I've viewed a number of the video tutorials already during my "contemplating" phase...and I'm not afraid to ask questions on the message board. Don't get me wrong...I recognize that it will take some time to go deep into the functionality but it appears to be like Microsoft Excel in that there is no end to learning it but you can do a lot with just a small amount of knowledge. It's the breadth and depth of the content that is a little overwhelming.
As pointed out, having all of "your resources in a single, unified program" is my biggest attraction to Bible software like Logos. I've collected a number of books and commentaries over the years but if I had a nickel for every hour I've spent browsing the indexes and table of contents looking for content that relates to the upcoming Sunday School topic, I could have retired years ago. One of my primary considerations for buying a book has become whether the book has a scripture cross reference in it. I really see Logos (and other Bible software) being a tremendous time saver in that regard.
Although my wife would beg to differ, I don't consider the expense an overwhelming issue...but there is a big difference between $264 and $999 (and higher) when it comes to what I'm willing to part with initially. It fascinates me to see all the posts on these message boards how you guys not only buy the expensive packages but are constantly on the lookout for other Logos-compatible books to buy. I mean how much can one absorb? The cost topic does lead to another question...
How much extra money is involved in purchasing a package and later upgrading vs buying the higher package to begin with?
I need to look into Vyrso a little more...it sounds interesting. I've been a Kindle owner since they first came out. I don't have an iPad, but I do have an Android phone and tablet (Motorola Xoom). In fact, I seldom read a book on my Kindle anymore...usually on the Xoom (unless reading outside).
Thanks for the input...greatly appreciated. I'll probably mull this over for another 24 hours or so....so feel free to keep it coming.
Ralph Wood:How much extra money is involved in purchasing a package and later upgrading vs buying the higher package to begin with?
It is generally believed that it is cheaper to start with the larger package, but a discount is given to those when upgrading base packages. If a new user knows they want to be at silver, for example, it would be cheaper to purchase silver from the get go. However, if that user will take a year to acquire the funds, it might be good to purchase the smaller base package and upgrade at years end. This would provide the user the opportunity to have access to some of the resources in their desired package (the packages "build" upon one another). Another thing to consider is that Logos has installment plans. Technically there is no "interest," but I believe that you pay $5 for each installment. This makes sense in some cases
Ralph Wood: I need to look into Vyrso a little more...it sounds interesting. I've been a Kindle owner since they first came out. I don't have an iPad, but I do have an Android phone and tablet (Motorola Xoom). In fact, I seldom read a book on my Kindle anymore...usually on the Xoom (unless reading outside).
The mobile apps for android are behind in development than those for iOS. Recently, the Vyrso & Logos apps for iOS received a major upgrade and are VERY nice. Logos intends to have parity for Andriod, but iOS has a good head start.
Ralph Wood: It fascinates me to see all the posts on these message boards how you guys not only buy the expensive packages but are constantly on the lookout for other Logos-compatible books to buy. I mean how much can one absorb?
I am not a scholar, or a college student, or a pastor. I bought Logos and the Bible Study Library almost a year ago. I am a layperson who helps teach a H.S. bible study. If you allow it, it may be like drinking water from a fire hose. I chose instead to "drink from the puddles" around the fire hose. :) I am by no means a power user of Logos, but over time, I've begun to drink from the puddles a little closer to the fire hose. I still need to go back and watch Mark's videos as I try new things with the program, but it is time well spent. if you go into it with the expectation that you will not be an expert in a week, or a month, or like me, a year, then the program is well worth it. The biggest drawback that I've seen on the forums is that many get very frustrated witht he software package after a relatively short time.
As for the forums, most of the topics discussed here are over my head, but that doesn't prevent me from reading the forums daily. until I started reading the forums, I didn't know what dispensationalism was, I've had a desire to study baptism in more depth, and I've increased my overall knowledge of the Bible and theology. I owe a thanks to the many forum posters who have piqued my curiosity on various subjects and caused me to increase my knowledge and expand my thoughts.
As for the money you may spend in the future.............Logos can be addicting. I've purchased many commentaries and works of authors I've never heard of figuring I may "need" them in the future, almost exclusively through the community pricing program.. Many I've ended up refering to later and have found then to be well worth the investment. There is nothing you'll have to buy, but many things that you'll want to buy.
After almost a year, I would say that I am very happy I purchased the Bibly Study Library package, even as I have not yet unlocked most of what the program can do.
hope that helps,
Mike
Buying books can be addicting.
Let me defend the practice a little, however. The issue isn't always that I am going to read every book I purchase cover to cover. Rather, the issue is that I need the information when I am looking for it. Having more books allows the user to find what he/she is looking for on any given subject.
Thanks, Mike...definitely helps (and encourages) me!
Would someone with more tenure explain to Ralph the periodic sales? (12 Days of Christmas is basically the only one I have experienced)
Ralph, IMO, if in Logos you acquire one strong (a) Bible commentary set, (b) Bible dictionary/encyclopedia, and (c) Hebrew and Greek dictionary/lexicons, you can spend the rest of your days in deep Bible study.
Dennis Parish:Would someone with more tenure explain to Ralph the periodic sales? (12 Days of Christmas is basically the only one I have experienced)
Logos has periodic sales. Dennis already mentioned the 12 Days of Christmas one. March Madness is another regular one which is coming up soon. These are sales that offer users a way to pick up some more books at a discount.
You can also usually (throughout the year) get a discount if you contact Sales directly and give them a list of books you are planning to buy all at once. They'll create a package deal specially for you. The amount of the discount will depend on how much you're planning to spend.
I can say with some authority (having spent tens of thousands over the years I've had Logos) that buying Logos books can be addictive. I get in on most of the pre-pub offers, as that's one of the cheapest ways to buy new books. Community Pricing is even cheaper but those are often books that are of less value/interest to me, but I usually get them anyway just in case.
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Dennis Parish: Would someone with more tenure explain to Ralph the periodic sales? (12 Days of Christmas is basically the only one I have experienced)
The 12 Days of Christmas has been the biggest annual sales event. A wide range of deals are offered.
Black Friday has become another annual tradition.
March Madness is just around the corner. It puts 64 Logos titles in a bracket (like the NCAA basketball tournament). Users get to vote weekly on which ones advance. The further a title advances, the larger the discount that it receives. I have picked up some nice bargains over the years.
Here's a link for finding Logos bargains:
http://blog.logos.com/2011/07/how-to-find-a-bargain-on-logos-com/
Titles (usually sets) are offered at special prices at least weekly on the home page and website. There are also daily Twitter specials (usually 50% off).
Hundreds of public domain titles are constantly available for bidding in the Community Pricing Program. These often go for $1-2 per volume. Buying at the CP level is usually the lowest price a title will ever be offered. http://blog.logos.com/2010/02/how_community_pricing_works/
I do not have an ebook reader, but the Vyrso titles are available for viewing along with the rest of the Logos library as one uses Logos.
http://blog.logos.com/2011/05/new-christian-ebook-store-to-launch-up-to-25000-books-in-2011/
Logos has a 30 day moneyback guarantee. If you are not satisfied with any purchase, you have 30 days to get full credit for it. That eliminates any risk.
The BIble Study Library is a great place to start. Base pkgs offer the best value for resources. Others prefer to add particular titles/sets of interest instead of upgrading base packages. Some of the major reference sets are not found in any base package.
Here's a link to a related discussion: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/42199/314380.aspx#314380
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/42199.aspx?PageIndex=2
I would recommend that you call a Logos sales rep and they will be happy to answer any questions for you. They can become invaluable down the road as you inevitably see other things that you want to add or if you want to upgrade.
My rep is Dave Kaplan. He's an 18 yr Logos veteran.
Dave Kaplan
Logos Research Systems Inc.
1313 Commercial St, Bellingham, WA 98225
800-875-6467 ext. 2304
Direct Line - 360-685-2304
http://blog.logos.com/archives/2007/12/meet_dave_kaplan.html