Listing Bibles in order of translation philosophy

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Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 21 2012 6:31 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Keep Smiling

The passage in Daniel is in Aramaic.  What you are saying is true, however Jesus is making IMO a clear reference of His identity to this passage. Why would you obscure that, by giving it a different translation into English when the essence of both the words in Aramaic and in Greek are essentially equal?

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 21 2012 7:25 PM

Kenneth McGuire:
There are significant issues with regards to how they treat the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible.  All of them view it as the Old Testament with regards to book order,


I'm glad to see this issue raised as my go-to Bibles each uses a different order: NRSV, NAB, Community Bible, JPS. As wouls be expected, I have a little problem with some observations based on the order of the entir Bible.

Kenneth McGuire:
many translations make great pains to try to translate the books without regard to how the text is referenced in the New.


Another good point ... one also behind some of the Masorectic/LXX debates. I've been delighted with some of the newer scholarship on the issue that takes the issue out of Reformation rhetoric and into serious discussion - there are legitimate points for each choice.

I actually make an odd distinction: Old Testament meaning the books when read and interpreted through the Christian lens; Tanakh or Hebrew Scripture when interpreted through the Jewish lens.I know no commonly accepted terminology for this distinction.

Kenneth McGuire:
that try to retain the ambiguity.  On the other hand, I fully understand that for worship use


This is an important consideration I hear more rarely than I'd expect.

Kenneth McGuire:
Personally I would not mind if a family tree of the Tyndale/King James tradition was available for showing dependencies.


or from a source that clearly states their biasStick out tongue



But you were thinking of something a little safer like: Wink

 

 

Michael Childs:
Theology will impact translation.  Every time.  Of course, unless I am doing  the translation.  Then it is exact science.  Wink


I'm more familiar with translating Buddhist, Hindu and Parsi scriptures where one rarely sees an English translation showing sectarian bias except in the notes. But I do rknow a few verses and pericope divisions that will normally tell me if I am reading a Jewish or Christian translation. But for Christian translations I more often notice the use of the same word to mean different things in different theologies rather than differences in the translation itself. And I see differences in theory of language leading to very different theories of interpretation. I'll need to go back through a variety of translations to see if I've just not seen it because I wasn't looking for it.

Rosie Perera:
certain decisions about what to do with certain texts (such as the "virgin" vs. "young woman" in Isa 7:14) are based on "liberal" or "conservative" presuppositions


Okay, I see the point. I'd just never think of this as liberal/conservative. I see it more as translator integrity - being able to defend your choice on denotation/connotation mapping between the languages. to greatly simply here the Hebrew has a cultural young woman=virgin or dead (honor killing, adultery stoning etc.) which is rather hard to retain the connotations in English.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Already appreciate Hebrew word formation being Greek to me


As an historical linguist would tell you, if you know Sanskrit, Greek is easy by comparison. If you    know Greek, Latin is easy by comparison. If you know English, you're up the proverbial tree.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 21 2012 7:35 PM

Jerry M:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Keep Smiling

The passage in Daniel is in Aramaic.  What you are saying is true, however Jesus is making IMO a clear reference of His identity to this passage. Why would you obscure that, by giving it a different translation into English when the essence of both the words in Aramaic and in Greek are essentially equal?

Mea culpa Stick out tongue Both Hebrew and Aramaic word formation are Greek to me; have much to learn about Old Testament original languages (e.g. Aramaic occurs in 200 Old Testament verses).

Likewise concur about Daniel 7:9-10 image about the Holy One, who is worthy to be worshiped:

In commenting about Daniel 7:9, UBS Handbook has several verses to compare where “snow” is used as a figure to describe whiteness: Exo 4:6; Num 12:10; 2 Kgs 5:27; Psa 51:7; Isa 1:18. In the New Testament compare Matt 28:3 and Rev 1:14.  Thankful for Logos Bible Software so can hover for verse pop-up, and click to read context.

Note: English Bible is a Personal Book, thread has docx files => American Standard Version 1901 - Personal Bible without Chapter and Verse #'s 

Wiki has => UBS Old Testament Handbook Series

Keep Smiling Smile

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Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 21 2012 7:45 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
have much to learn about Old Testament original languages

So do I!  I am but a beginner. I always appreciate your helpful comments.  Sorry if I sounded harsh or know it all.

Here is yet another persons views on the various translations.

Bible Translation Guide

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 21 2012 8:06 PM

I can't help but note that the chart that puts the NIV right in the middle is from Zondervan, the publisher. We all have an opinion, I suppose, but I wonder what the NASB and ESV folks chart would look like?

Then there's the NET Bible which claims to have finally solved the problems others have not been able to avoid:

"[T]he translators and editors used the notes to give a translation that was formally equivalent, while placing a somewhat more functionally equivalent translation in the text itself to promote better readability and understandability. The longstanding tension between these two different approaches to Bible translation has thus been fundamentally solved. "

(Biblical Studies Press, The NET Bible First Edition; Bible. English. NET Bible.; The NET Bible (Biblical Studies Press, 2006; 2006).)

Ah, well. All would agree that the Message and the NASB95 have fundamentally different translation approaches.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Simon Pleasants | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 21 2012 9:15 PM

I'm enjoying the debate about the various philosphosies and biases behind different translations. It's a good reminder that no translation will ever be perfect and in the end there's no substitute for studying the Bible in its original languages.

However, it is a real blessing to have an overabundance of translation available to us in English, especially to those like me who don't know Hebrew or Greek. It's great to use a wide range of translations when studying the Bible as that will counteract the shortcomings of a particular translation. Even paraphrases can be helpful in this respect. I personally use the ESV as my translation of choice because it adopts a more literal approach than many other translations. But it's good to compare what it says with other translations.

"Upon a life I did not live, Upon a death I did not die, Another's life, another's death, I stake my whole eternity"

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 22 2012 12:06 AM

Mark Smith:
Then there's the NET Bible which claims to have finally solved the problems others have not been able to avoid:

Re: the position of the NET

From www.gcfweb.org/institute/biblestudymethods/transmission.php

from http://www.enjoymore.net/2010/10/translation-continuum/

from http://www.tillhecomes.org/best-bible-translation/

All of which shows that some sites use blurry graphics - and my personal favorite:

from ntresources.com/documents/transl.ppt

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 22 2012 4:56 AM

In years to come when, inevitably, many of us teach/preach on the topic of Bible translations, or how to study the Bible, etc.; I'll be grateful for this forum thread Smile.  I mean the accessibility of the charts alone (Yes, even in all their glorious disagreement) is worth the price of admission.

 

"I read dead people..."

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Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 22 2012 6:41 AM

David Ames:

[ As George has not yet found this thread I remind us of his words - Learn Greek and Hebrew and do your own translation

And George is a wise man.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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