missing resources... AGAIN.

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Brent Hoefling | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 13 2009 6:34 AM

I posted something about this on the Blog site a week or so ago, and assume it was deleted, since other comments were put up after mine.  I don't have a copy of it, since I didn't think to save, and since then I have made another discovery.

I have been a long time customer of LOGOS/Libronix.  Since version 1.3, If I recall correctly, and used to have a stack of 3.5" diskettes to load, and only a handful of resources.  I remember when I got my first CD - woohoo!  What a boon to the company for thinking forward.  I stayed with this tool since there was a commitment to our library's being our libraries.  I liked that attitude and commitment.  I added resources slowly in the first years, as I was a poor college student.  When version 2 was released, it was a huge success, and I upgraded right away.

The challenge was that I seemed to lose some resources.  I had so many that I just had a number to go by, and the new number was less than the old number (at the time, I had to do an open search and see the number of resources searched).  I had lost a dozen or so resources, but had no idea what they were.  I continued to stay with LOGOS.  I had contacted tech support, but there was nothing they said they could do, unless I know what resources were missing to verify.  I continued with what I had, after all in the scheme of things, I had nearly a thousand resources then and a dozen or so was not much.

Libronix3 was released, and once again, I was awed.  It was a different tool, and was more than I had expected.  I participated in the open betas and knew about the resource change issues and the single file resource changes and indexing for L3.  It was tremendously faster, and I knew about the initial shortcomings.  I made an informed decision.

However, once again, I lost resources.  This time it was a significant number to me.  And when calling tech support, I was again told that I need to provide the names, of which I could not do.  Over 60 resources missing that time.  I let it go again, since at that time, I had over 2500 resources and I would just deal with my library being short a few, though I knew that my third-party LOGOS purchases were few, and the L3 could read those dual-file resources as well.

L4 was released.  I had not participated in the news groups for some time and so this was a complete surprise to me.  I called to talk to tech support about the new version and asked if it would read all my resources, and I was assured it would have all my resources available.

I bought the portfolio this time.  The discount was steep, and ~ $1500 (payments) were affordable for me at this time in my life.  I later discovered that none of my video resources were available, and the power points that were part of my Standard Publishing sets were also not showing up.  Not to mention that at the time of loading L4, I had over 3600 or so resources.  After the load, I had 3999, according to the blank search box (no other way to see a bibliography that I found yet).

I was sadly disappointed again.  I had again lost resources, though an increase in number, I believe that number should have been far greater.  But I left it off to my not actually comparing the portfolio with what I had, and besides, there was just no way to make that comparison manually, there were just too many resources.

I had it loaded on my desktop and my laptop and they synchronized it was awesome (though “only” 3999 resources, I had not been able to match the resources on them before because of different install times, reinstalls etc, they had always been 2 or 3 resources off of each other.)

My laptop had failed in the last few days and so I reloaded it with Win7-64, and decided to make the jump.  Installed everything from scratch.  When it came to LOGOS, I decided to install from the Internet, as this is part of the selling point of the new L4!  And it worked great!  This was awesome.  Except one thing.  I lost resources.

Remember the 3999?  Well, now my laptop has 3965.  And my desktop still has 3999. Disappointing.  Sadly disappointing.

I really love my LOGOS software and I do not believe that the over $13,000 that I have spent (what is tracked in my account, there are thousands more in third party purchases) is wasted.  But I do wish there was a better way to track the resources.  OCD?  Maybe I am, but this is my library and I treat it as such and have it in my will to transfer to one of my children when I pass away.  It is that important to me.

The new interface is something I am getting used to and have even created a shortcut.  There are some missing features that I used a lot, but many of those are scheduled (though I thought, initially that they were available, and only found out afterwards that they were not).  Logos, you have me.  I am not going anywhere.  I just wish that there was MORE COMMUNICATION up front about what this L4 actually was, and what was available in it; and how it might affect someone’s library and the way they use the tool.

 

Posts 5613
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 6:41 AM

BrentHoefling:
Remember the 3999?  Well, now my laptop has 3965.  And my desktop still has 3999. Disappointing.  Sadly disappointing.

Are you counting Logos 3 help resources in the 3999 number?  I don't think those will download.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 556
Brent Hoefling | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 6:55 AM

35 of them?  i don't think so.

Doing a library search, typed in help on the laptop - 437; desktop 440.  that apparently accounts for 3. (assuming the help files are in that list and it isn't 3 books with the word "help" in their title that are missing)

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 7:23 AM

BrentHoefling:
I posted something about this on the Blog site a week or so ago, and assume it was deleted, since other comments were put up after mine. 
Not deleted, nothing is deleted here but spam.  Click the number under your name and your prior posts should be there.

As for your missing resources, license syncing would cure this IF you're licenses had carried all the way through.  It sounds like you're licenses haven't been cleanly transfering from 1.3>3>4.  You have two options as I see it.

The "easy" one is to type update resources in the commandbar.  That will cause the system to check every book on your hard drive and on their servers against your license file.  (Before doing this, please make sure you're running the latest version which is SR6 (Help>About).  If you're not up to date update now will do the trick.

SR6 is supposed to be much better at fixing resource issues like this. 

The really hard method is dependent on your packrat ability.  I still have WIN 3.0 install disk, i'm a horrible packrat.  As a result I still have every program I've ever installed everywhere.  Your ultimate solution would be to start with L1.5 and start installing and upgrading till you go from 1.5>3>4.  That's a long climb.

Alternatively, if you know what packages you have had in the past, look up (google) what was on those packages, make a list, compare what you have against your current library  - yes its a tedious and very long process - especially with that many resources.

You may not be able to do it all in one day, but open a blank spread sheet and start looking.

 

 

Be mindful that Yes it is possible to have 35 helpfiles.  That's the way that L3 was fragmented.

Some resources have been combined.  Others have been replaced. 

Now then, I wonder if Logos has a master chart somewhere about what was in which collection when?

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Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 7:36 AM

Thomas Black:
Others have been replaced. 
Merged would be a better word than replaced.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

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Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 556
Brent Hoefling | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 8:18 AM

TB - several points:

1.  I posted it as a comment on teh BLOG site, as mentioned, not inthe forums.  my comment about the comment was that it was deleted from there,may not be accuurate, but it has not been displayed unter the comments of the logos 4 BLOG announcement, yet others after mine have been allowed to be posted.

2.  I have been through all major version number upgrades, 1.x>2x>3x>4.  and at each step, I found that I was missing resources.  that was the point.  I called tech support each time and had no actual help, since I couldn't show/prove what was missing, I only had number of resources to go by.

3.  I am running 4.0.3.2984 SR-6  tried the update resources command.  It says checking for updates, and has been for several minutes.  I will wait for a while to see what happens next.

4.  help files.  I understand there may be a significant number, but that doesn't explainte difference in my library of th enumber of resources.  the "help" example, especially.  one system has 3 less than the other.  I scrolled through the lists on both systems and sisn't see any logos help files on either list.

I do have most of the install resources, butonly as far back as 2.x when CD's were more popular.  I do not have any of the 1.x installs any more.  in fact, that is how i loaded my desktop initially whenI got a new one, was to install fromthe lowest version, and restore the license information (from floppy) and then install each new resouce, and download them from the my account site-history. and installe the new CD's and DVD's (nad of course from l3 on, I syncronized my licenses online).  it still has the 3999 (i still think this is a low number, since I bought the portfolio) resources, since I "upgraded" to 4.  the laptop has less from a fresh clean, online install.  to me, this shows that the online install is falling short womewhere.  especially when there is no report listing what is changed, a chart showing the differences in resources, etc.  and my lack of ability to spreadsheet the lists so that I can do an automated compare (that should be part of the tool, or maybe an upgrade tool), without having to manually compare a list of nearly 4000 items.

Posts 556
Brent Hoefling | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 8:19 AM

the resource update finished, apparently (the updating resources message went away), but still short on resources.

Posts 687
Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 8:37 AM

I suggest installing something like WinMerge, a free and open source file comparing program. Then either 1) copy your Logos 4 resources directory on one of the computers to eg a usb key, or 2) if they're networked; share the resource directory on the network.

Run WinMerge -> Open -> Enter the paths to the two resource directories and run a compare. (It will be faster if you go into Options -> Compare and change the file compare setting to Date modified and Size rather than full file compare.)

This will take probably about 5-10 minutes all up, but it will tell you exactly what files are in the one with 3999 that aren't in the one with 3965 without having to go through them manually; post up what you discover here and maybe it will be come clear what's going on... Smile

Posts 556
Brent Hoefling | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 8:41 AM

i know where the L3 resources are.  where are the L4 resources?

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 8:43 AM

BrentHoefling:
1.  I posted it as a comment on teh BLOG site, as mentioned, not inthe forums. 
Ah, Mea-culpa.  That's twice in one hour that I fumbled the blog/forum thing.  Sorry.

BrentHoefling:
I am running 4.0.3.2984 SR-6  tried the update resources command.  It says checking for updates, and has been for several minutes.  I will wait for a while to see what happens next.
I sincerely hope this helps.  But it sounds like information is missing from your license file.  If not, this should catch it. (again, I hope.)

BrentHoefling:
and my lack of ability to spreadsheet the lists so that I can do an automated compare (that should be part of the tool, or maybe an upgrade tool), without having to manually compare a list of nearly 4000 items.
That's why I wondered if Logos has such a spreadsheet somewhere.

Brent,

I hope this gets cleared up for you, I would be distressed in your situation.  Please post here if the command does anything good or bad.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

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Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 8:44 AM

BrentHoefling:

i know where the L3 resources are.  where are the L4 resources?

(from memory)

C:\users\<username>appdata\Logos4\

Look for the resources subdirectory.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

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Posts 556
Brent Hoefling | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 8:51 AM

still looking for the L4 resource location?  any assistance.  I have win7-64bit

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 9:09 AM

Sorry Brent (note to self, don't work from memory)

C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Logos4\Data\<randomstring>\ResourceManager\Resources

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 556
Brent Hoefling | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 9:11 AM

thanks.  winmerge running now.... :)

Running the Winmerge on the desktop comparing L3 and L4. first.

Posts 5613
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 9:23 AM

BrentHoefling:

thanks.  winmerge running now.... :)

Running the Winmerge on the desktop comparing L3 and L4. first.

Comparing the L3 and L4 dirs might be less than helpful unless you can get it to ignore file endings.  A lot of the .lbxlls files have been replaced with .logos4 files in the v4 install.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 9:27 AM

Todd Phillips:
Comparing the L3 and L4 dirs might be less than helpful unless you can get it to ignore file endings.  A lot of the .lbxlls files have been replaced with .logos4 files in the v4 install.
I think that can be manually filtered out of the results.  I've not used winmerge for a very long time.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 184
LogosEmployee
Dan Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 9:29 AM

BrentHoefling:
The challenge was that I seemed to lose some resources

Brent, I have great news for you! You aren't losing any resources at all!  Big Smile

The short answer is, over time as the technology changes we change how "resources" are grouped, counted, displayed, considered...

One of the biggest changes in Logos 4 is the counting of some large collections of multi-volume print titles as single resources. Take something like the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary (6 Vols.), in Logos 3/Libronix it may have been counted as 6 resources, but now in Logos 4 it is counted as one resource. Logos 4 is starting to count multi-volume titles as single resources. To a computer with unlimited space for digital resources it is thinking of this as "one book" or "one resource" but in print it was actually 6 very large volumes, so when we make a count of "resources" for the web page and marketing materials it is just like it was in print, like people are familiar with—six actual, physical, print resources. When it goes into the software it is counted as one resource. 

The count of resources also changes when we take something that used to be a database/resource and now is integrated into the core of the software itself.

Don't worry, there are plenty of users who have felt the same way. They see that resource count change on them, sometimes up, sometimes down, sometimes it appears to change in different places and at different times, but I can assure you that we have a complete sync of your licenses and you are not losing resources.

The good news is we have records going all the way back to the very first purchase in our Libronix database. We also have purchasing records for customers that purchased from us. I am sure that the change in the way we count resources in each new version of the software is the issue you are experiencing now, but even so, feel free to contact customer service if you are missing a particular resource you have a record of purchasing.

Posts 556
Brent Hoefling | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 9:44 AM

running winmerge compare:

laptop L4 (new install) resources to desktop L3 resource folder (shared it on my home lan temproarily). Winmerge Total Items 9576 (still running)

Desktop L4 ("upgrade") resources to local L3 resources folder.  Winmerge total items 8319 (also still running).

and thanks Dan.  I understand, but the differences are still frustrating without seeing what is different specifically.  I am an old DOS guy, I like to know what is going on, on my computer, and after spending so much, I would like to know that my resources are there.

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 9:50 AM

Dan,

I've put this on the FAQ under Resources.

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Posts 24
Larry Schmid | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 9:52 AM

DanPritchett:

Brent, I have great news for you! You aren't losing any resources at all!  Big Smile

The short answer is, over time as the technology changes we change how "resources" are grouped, counted, displayed, considered...

Dan, I can fully appreciate the strategy change that causes a change in the reported number of resources.  The new license and resource tracking will eliminate the missing resource issue if it is running bug-free.  Smile  However, with a large number of resources, one or several could easily not be missed for some time.  We have all experienced this on V3 and earlier.

V4 is early enough in the release cycle that it's not unreasonable to raise the question of missing resources, and not only because of the differences in file count.  In the last release, a couple of different license and resource reports at gave us the ability to inspect in detail.  I believe it was the license report that would list "unknown resource" with an LLS: number.  It wasn't perfect but it at least indicated a discrepency that we could then attempt to reconcile.  I think some similar tool would be helpful here.

Thx,

Larry

AKA WillyBurger

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