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Posts 506
P A | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 6 2012 1:08 PM

Just had a thought...

Now that the Anglicised NIV 1984 is available on Biblia, Iphone, Android.

It not often my American friends look across the pond with envy.

 But I can read both NIV 2011 (USA) and NIV 1984 Anglicised on Biblia.com. Something Americans are denied.

I was blessed to purchase the NIV 1984 Anglicised CD-Rom (Libronix) when it was available (no longer).Big Smile

 

P A

 

Posts 18
Bruce Nelson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 1 2013 1:31 PM

Dan Francis:
Yes I am aware many organizations may update their versions to 2011 but I would suspect a lot of them will commingle them happily for a while anyway

There is a 3rd option to update or commingle.   I know of two good size churches who, on finding they could not replace some of their well worn pew bibles with identical copy (colour not important, just text & pagination), elected to discontinue use of the NIV, and went with a different translation.    IBS would have been further ahead to have continued the NIV84, and kept the customer base.  I suspect new Christians are more likely to purchase the same translation as they find in the pews, but would only go looking for NIV, not a particular edition.  Accordingly, not only did IBS lose the church sales, but also possibly the future private sales.

I guess that is not really relevant to NIV84 in Biblia/Logos/verso, but, it may be reflected in which versions do get purchased.  (Why has Crossways elected to give away electronic licenses for  ESV's?)

Posts 24
Mark Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 28 2013 7:17 AM

Perhaps this still contains the 1984 edition text?

Posts 58
Anthony Grubb | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 30 2013 5:13 PM

Mark Davis:

Perhaps this still contains the 1984 edition text?

{where above embedded link points to http://www.logos.com/product/4873/sermon-studies-on-the-old-testament-ilcw-series-b}

 

Mark, 

I appreciate your optimism, but even though this commentary uses the 1984 NIV in the inline text, it is not listed among the titles included.  If you wish to have a copy of the link for the 1984 NIV, here it is (and it now points to no other resources).

As for me, I'm just about ready... and in the process... even after stocking up last summer on several printed volumes of 1984 NIV Study Bibles for decades to come...  

I think I'm just going to take the hard pill after two years have now passed since this all came about and accept that a Logos licensed 1984 NIV will NOT be available anytime soon--at least not until it has become entirely irrelevant in modern Christianity.  As such, I'm in the process of what has been unthinkable for me--adopting a new translation for my own use.  I also regret that I defended the NIV for years against those who questioned its validity, and to see a move like this so early on the horizon in terms of the life of a translation (where 30-40 years is a mere single drop in the bucket), causes me to question the whole International Bible Soceity/Biblica--and yes, Zondervan enterprises.

In the past couple of years, I've had a lot of opportunity to dig around in the roots and development of the English bible, especially during the transformation of Middle English to Early Modern English under Tyndale and through the formation of the King James Version.  While the ESV seems to me a step backward in its use of archaic words and constructs, it is gaining much acceptance by highly respected leaders--and as a primarily English speaker, I can handle it just fine--although I long for a more "transparent" translation for purposes of evangelism, the ESV is about the best I can find.  

Just a note in passing, I liked Logo's Lexham translation, also, but it lacks widespread acceptance, hardcopy availability, and also uses... archaisms--of all things!  Nevertheless, it is telling that Logos no longer includes ANY form of the NIV in their packages--and who can blame them after all this headache and ultimate fiasco!  Zondervan and Biblica are making the whole NIV family the "persona non grata," and they are doing it all by themselves!  And further, Logos has developed their own Lexham High Definition New Testament for use with the ESV!

In any case, this helps me understand the reluctance and even harsh opposition coming from the KJV crowd--for invariably I've heard them make some appeal to their own feelings on the matter.  To me, the 1984 NIV is still the only version that feels or seems like God's Word--it has been my mainstay for over 30 years, throughout my most formative years in the faith, through Bible College, and beyond, and I still have the cassette tapes I play when I drive (and I really don't foresee my next car having a cassette deck, so this will all change, lol)--in every way the NIV had locked itself into my spiritual development, my religious community, my evangelism--in short, into my affections.  

Nevertheless, it won't be the first time in the history of the English bible that ugly abuses of power have chained vernacular expressions of God's Word, and it probably won't be the last, and of course, those in power have all sorts of rationalizations for their own actions, just as the apostle Paul had in his early days, just as translators of the KJV did in their persecutions, tortures, and executions of Puritists, and likewise, the petty actions of these publishers and translation holders are not enough to deter those who desire to make a difference in the few precious years we have here, we can whip right around the NIV altogether--and see if we don't!

It has been said that "survival goes not to the strongest, but to those who are the quickest to adapt to change."  Also, living a purposeful life requires enough serenity and wisdom--both gifts from God--to know when to hold out and when to move on.  These are summed up in the Serenity Prayer like this:

God, grant me Serenity to accept the things I cannot change
Courage to change the things I can, and
Wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time,
Enjoying one moment at a time,
Accepting hardship as a pathway to peace,
Taking, as Jesus did,
This sinful world as it is,
Not as I would have it,
Trusting that You will make all things right,
If I surrender to Your will,
So that I may be reasonably happy in this life,
And supremely happy with You forever in the next.

Amen.

Posts 24
Mark Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 15 2013 1:11 PM

Anthony,

depending on what you want to spend to get it, it is often (and currently as of this post) available here via an older Logos version purchase that includes it.  I actually have it as well as the new one because of how long I've had Logos Bible Software.  Personally I am a fan of the ESV though, and have been since its release.  Also, when I made my post, that link actually did specifically list the NIV 1984 version, but it has apparently been updated since then (probably because it no longer contains that version).

Posts 1240
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 15 2013 4:47 PM

Logos sells numerous resources that utilize the full text of the NIV84, but Logos can no long provide the NIV84 to use along side these same resources. Makes sense. Huh?

Logos is a big player. How a company could just let this happen seems irresponsible. I'm not convinced that Zondervan is holding all the best cards. There is something we are not being told.

Posts 222
Scott E. Mahle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 15 2013 5:00 PM

Josh:

Logos sells numerous resources that utilize the full text of the NIV84, but Logos can no long provide the NIV84 to use along side these same resources.

Anyone for The Holy Bible: New International Version—Anglicised 1984 Edition Wink

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Richard DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 15 2013 5:06 PM

Josh:

Logos sells numerous resources that utilize the full text of the NIV84, but Logos can no long provide the NIV84 to use along side these same resources. Makes sense. Huh?

Logos is a big player. How a company could just let this happen seems irresponsible. I'm not convinced that Zondervan is holding all the best cards. There is something we are not being told.

This is not a decision of either Logos nor Zondervan. It's a decision of Biblica (http://www.biblica.com/ formerly the Committee on Bible Translation) - not related to Biblia, BTW, note the spelling. Biblica is the legal copyright holder to the NIV. They contracted with Zondervan (in the U.S.) to print & distribute for them.

This has been discussed at length in these forums. If you want to do what I did, visit the Biblica web site and under "Contact us" (link at the top fo the page), express your opinion.

 Help links: WIKI;   Videos; Logos 5 FAQ (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 530
Tom Reynolds | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 15 2013 5:37 PM

Scott E. Mahle:

That looks like the proverbial bird killer! It solves two problems at once - provides Americans with a 1984 NIV and helps them learn to spell ;-)

Posts 1240
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 15 2013 7:32 PM

Richard DeRuiter:

Josh:

Logos sells numerous resources that utilize the full text of the NIV84, but Logos can no long provide the NIV84 to use along side these same resources. Makes sense. Huh?

Logos is a big player. How a company could just let this happen seems irresponsible. I'm not convinced that Zondervan is holding all the best cards. There is something we are not being told.

This is not a decision of either Logos nor Zondervan. It's a decision of Biblica (http://www.biblica.com/ formerly the Committee on Bible Translation) - not related to Biblia, BTW, note the spelling. Biblica is the legal copyright holder to the NIV. They contracted with Zondervan (in the U.S.) to print & distribute for them.

This has been discussed at length in these forums. If you want to do what I did, visit the Biblica web site and under "Contact us" (link at the top fo the page), express your opinion.

Oh, yes. I've heard this explanation before. I'm suggesting that there is something suspicious going on. The bizarre total expulsion of the NIV84 text is inexplicable. It was extremely popular and it was utilized in countless resources.

 

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Richard DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 16 2013 9:31 AM

Josh:
Oh, yes. I've heard this explanation before. I'm suggesting that there is something suspicious going on. The bizarre total expulsion of the NIV84 text is inexplicable. It was extremely popular and it was utilized in countless resources.

What sort of conspiracy did you have in mind?

I'm certain both Logos and Zondervan expect to lose a great deal of money because of Biblica's decision. There is little reason to assume that the response to the NIV11 will be any less than the rejection of the TNIV (which Biblica does not allow to be sold either). They are too similar not to make the comparison both by detractors, and in sales. Objections on these forums to the removal of the NIV83 seem to support that conclusion, uh, more or less, conclusively.

The foolishness of Biblica's decision seems apparent to everyone but them. Hoards of faithful NIV84 users, are actively seeking, or have already moved to other modern translations. This is too bad, since the NIV11 has a lot to commend in it, IMHO (the return to "flesh" as a translation of "sarx," vs. "sinful nature" for one). But the 'strong-arm' decision of Biblica has put a bad taste in our mouths, so to speak, about the NIV11, and even those who see the NIV11 as an overall improvement over the NIV84, are looking elsewhere. This is to say nothing of those who find some of the gender-inclusive language troublesome.

It has been often compared to the "New Coke" debacle in the 80's, though unlike the Coca-Cola corporation, Biblica shows no signs of backing down.

But we are getting off the topic of discussing Logos software, aren't we.

 Help links: WIKI;   Videos; Logos 5 FAQ (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 5
Stephen Douglas Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 28 2013 2:14 PM

I have ignored the problem for 2 years but today Bible Gateway denied me access to the NIV84 saying there is only one NIV and I should check out all the new features. What about 30 years of Bible memorization? What about over 5% of the text changed to become less literal? I got no response. We all rejoiced when NLT made the Living more scholarly, but why "dumb down the NIV?" MONEY. Why not allow us to continue to use the NIV84? I'm afraid it's the same answer. ESV and Holman are looking better and better, but what about the pew Bibles and all my memory verses? Does "Word perfect" count for anything anymore?

Bill Mullen:

BibleGateway.com includes the NIV 1984 version. Apparently LOGOS is afraid of the big 'Z'. Who needs Biblia? 

Posts 5
Stephen Douglas Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 28 2013 2:17 PM

Good points

Posts 5
Stephen Douglas Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 28 2013 2:27 PM

Thanks for your good comments, Mark. NIV84 is a part of my spiritual formation, Bible college experience, and evangelism strategy as well. I'm leaning toward ESV, but lately have considered Holman (HCSB) for balanced readability. Check it out and let me know what you think. Just wish I could get Bible Gateway to keep NIV84. 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 28 2013 3:15 PM

Stephen Douglas Scott:
Just wish I could get Bible Gateway to keep NIV84. 

Well, this probably is the wrong forum for this discussion - but you may read the NIV 84 in its anglizised spelling (link was given above) in Logos, on the web on biblia.com, and on mobile plattforms. Maybe that helps a bit.

running Logos 5.3 Beta 1 (Verbum Master+, Lutheran Silver) on Acer Extensa 5230E with 4GB RAM & 250GB SSD - Win7 Home 32bit & Android apps on Kindle Fire

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Halo Hound | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 28 2013 5:13 PM

Bill Mullen:

BibleGateway.com includes the NIV 1984 version. Apparently LOGOS is afraid of the big 'Z'. Who needs Biblia? 

i noticed a banner the other day on biblegateway.com that said niv84 would no longer be available after feb 28.

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 28 2013 5:20 PM

Halo Hound:

Bill Mullen:

BibleGateway.com includes the NIV 1984 version. Apparently LOGOS is afraid of the big 'Z'. Who needs Biblia? 

i noticed a banner the other day on biblegateway.com that said niv84 would no longer be available after feb 28.

https://support.biblegateway.com/entries/23178691-Why-did-you-remove-the-1984-NIV-and-TNIV-from-Bible-Gateway-

Biblegateway says that it's Biblica that asked them to remove the NIV84 text.  No mention of Zondervan.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Moving Logos between systems / Detailed Search Help - ThinkPad T520: 2.4GHz i5-2430M, 8GB, 7200RPM HD, integrated video

Posts 6385
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 28 2013 5:31 PM

Reading Todd's link, with NIV84 at 450 million purchases, and the new one at 10 million or so, 2 years for the latter, that'd be .... hmmm ... 45 more years to convert them all!

Oh wait, my calculator pushed its keys wrong. Old thing. Ok, 90 years.

Now, let's see. The average age of the NIV84 user was 46.3 years. Ok. 46.3 + 90 ... hmmm ... medical improvements in life support ARE a factor.

Well, ok, looks do-able.


Posts 58
Anthony Grubb | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 3 2013 9:13 PM

Stephen Douglas Scott:

have considered Holman (HCSB) for balanced readability. Check it out and let me know what you think.

  If you want a translation dominated by the translation "needs" of exactly one demonination, go for it.
Posts 152
David Salazar | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 4 2013 5:06 AM

Anthony Grubb:

Stephen Douglas Scott:

have considered Holman (HCSB) for balanced readability. Check it out and let me know what you think.

  If you want a translation dominated by the translation "needs" of exactly one demonination, go for it.

I'm only really starting to appreciate NIV more so now and before. While the English study version is NASB, my next preferred one is HCSB even though I'm not Baptist.

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