Timothy Brown:Edit: Now I see that a http://www.logos.com/product/17655/na27-with-critical-apparatus has just been split out of SESB (52 vols.). I'm not sure that it's the same as the resources in the screenshot above. What I have came from the 18 vol. version.
It is. I have the 52 vols. version.
NB.Mick -- running Logos 5.1 Beta 8 (Verbum Master, Minimal Crossgrade) on Win7 Home Premium 32bit & some Android apps on Kindle Fire
Si Cochran: Hopefully, this means that the German Bible Society will be unbundling their products in the future.
They did! At least in part.
The product pages for the 18-vol. SESB 3.0
http://www.logos.com/product/8484/stuttgart-electronic-study-bible
as well as the SESB 3.0 Upgrade,
1. Which I assume took 2.0 users/owners to the 18-vol. 3.0 version - correct?
http://www.logos.com/product/8735/stuttgart-electronic-study-bible-sesb-version-30-upgrade
say these packages are included in the 52-volume SESB 3.0 set,
2. Which to me implies that the resources in the 18-vol. edition are identical to their counterparts in the 52-vol. edition despite the differences in the titles listings - Correct?
I primarily want the 18-vol. set, but I'd use my Christmas Credits to get the 52-vol. set (for the additional resources other than the foreign language Bibles) if I was assured I didn't miss anything from the 18-vol. set.
3. AND ... IS BHQ incomplete as of this date?
Eric Weiss: When I compare the Logos description listings for the 18-volume edition to the 52-volume edition, I cannot match apples to apples to see if the 52-volume edition contains EVERYTHING from the 18-volume edition exactly as it is in the 18-volume edition, or if the 18-volume edition has different versions of some the same/similarly-named resources, since the same wording isn't used for both sets. Can anyone help clarify? The 52-volume set includes: Individual Titles Original Language Editions Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia with text critical apparatus and linguistic WIVU database Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia: Workgroep Informatica Constituency Tree Analysis Biblia Hebraica Quinta (BHQ) fascicles Deuteronomy, Megilloth, Esther, Ezra, Nehemiah, Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes, Lamentations Biblia Hebraica Quinta (BHQ) text critical apparatus Novum Testamentum Graece (Nestle-Aland, 27th edition) Novum Testamentum Graece (Nestle-Aland, 27th edition) with text critical apparatus and mophological Gramcord database The Greek New Testament (UBS edition) with text critical apparatus, cross reference apparatus and segmentation apparatus Septuagint/Greek Old Testament (eds. Rahlfs/Hanhart, editio altera) Septuagint/Greek Old Testament (eds. Rahlfs/Hanhart, editio altera) with text critical apparatus and morphological CATSS database Vulgate/Latin Bible, (5th edition, eds. Weber/Gryson) Vulgate/Latin Bible, (5th edition, eds. Weber/Gryson) text critical apparatus Biblia Sacra Vulgata: Psalmi iuxta Hebraicum et Varia Lectio Biblia Sacra Vulgata: Psalmi iuxta Hebraicum et Varia Lectio (Apparatus) The Gospel According to Thomas in Coptic The Gospel According to Thomas in Greek The Gospel According to Thomas in English The Gospel According to Thomas in German The Apostolic Fathers (ed. Lightfoot) in Greek and English Dictionaries and Reference Works A Hebrew/Aramaic-English and Hebrew/Aramaic-German Dictionary of the Old Testament (ed. WIVU), by Bosman, Oosting, Postma A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint, by Lust, Eynikel, and Hauspie A Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament, by B.M. Newman Kleines Wörterbuch zum Neuen Testament Griechisch-Deutsch, by R. Kassühlke A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, by B. Metzger A Textual Guide on the Greek New Testament, by R. Omanson The Gospel of Thomas: Original Text with Commentary (English and German), by U.-K. Plisch WiBiLex-Keyword-Index, by Koenen, Bauks The 18-volume set includes: Individual Titles Scholarly Bible and Critical Apparatuses Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia: SESB 2.0 Version BHS Apparatus Criticus Biblia Hebraica Quinta Biblia Hebraica Quinta: Apparatus Criticus Biblia Sacra Vulgata (Apparatus) Biblia Sacra Vulgata (SESB) Biblia Sacra Vulgata: Psalmi iuxta Hebraicum et Varia Lectio (Apparatus) Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum Graece Editio XXVII Nestle-Aland: NTG Apparatus Criticus Septuaginta: Apparatus Criticus Septuaginta: Apparatus Criticus (Alternate Texts) Septuaginta: SESB Edition Septuaginta: SESB Edition (Alternate Texts) The Greek New Testament, Fourth Revised Edition (with apparatus) Dictionaries and Lexicons The Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint, Revised Edition Wörterbuch zum Alten Testament: Hebräisch/Aramäisch-Deutsch und Hebräisch/Aramäisch-Englisch
When I compare the Logos description listings for the 18-volume edition to the 52-volume edition, I cannot match apples to apples to see if the 52-volume edition contains EVERYTHING from the 18-volume edition exactly as it is in the 18-volume edition, or if the 18-volume edition has different versions of some the same/similarly-named resources, since the same wording isn't used for both sets.
Can anyone help clarify?
The 52-volume set includes:
The 18-volume set includes:
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
Eric Weiss: 3. AND ... IS BHQ incomplete as of this date?
Yes, BHQ is incomplete. Here are the contents of BHQ:
It looks like only 2 resources of the broken-up SESB resources are available for iPhone/iPad.
Is that largely true of the 18-vol and 52-vol sets - I.e., no or very little iPhone/iPad availability?
Any answers to my questions 1. and 2.?
Eric Weiss: Any answers to my questions 1. and 2.?
As far as I know, the 18 vol "SESB for Logos users" is a subset of the 52 vol SESB 3.0 it contains critical editions, apparatuses etc. but not the European languages bibles. Thus for me it shows grey on the Logos page, as the page's logic determines I own all resources this set has to offer.
The SESB 2.0 to 3.0 upgrade referred to upgrading from the full-number SESB 2.0 to the 52 vol SESB 3.0. I bought the full-volume 2.0 plus the 3.0 upgrade last year and thus technically now own the 52 vol SESB 3.0 full package. Consequently, the SESB package (now since they repaired the page logic) shows grey.
Does this help?
Thanks! That seems to confirm that the 18 vol set is a true subset of the 52 vol set.
Eric Weiss: Thanks! That seems to confirm that the 18 vol set is a true subset of the 52 vol set.
yep. I have whipped up a small comparison sheet detailing the two editions and the available individual resources:
3312.Matching SESB editions.xlsx
hope this helps everybody to understand what is and what is not included.
If anyone is vacillating, the 18 volume edition is a bargain if you want more than one of the individual Apparatuses or something more than the BHQ.
I am wondering if Logos will continue to offer the 18 volume Logos upgrade version in the future? If not, it would be good to know so folks can plan what to do.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
Mark Smith:If anyone is vacillating, the 18 volume edition is a bargain
I keep wondering if there is anything in the 52 volume collection that I am missing out on. Does anyone have any recommendations for individual title add-ons I should consider? I do not read French, German, Dutch or even Hebrew (yet).
disclaimer: My post is only my unofficial, personal opinion. I have no "insider information" on the future availability of SESB. I do, however, own the Ultimate Archaeology Bundle, the 2010 Christmas Master Collection, and the Bill Bright Life Works Collection; all gone from the Logos catalog. I also missed out on many other super deals that are gone...gone...gone...
...
NB.Mick: Eric Weiss: Thanks! That seems to confirm that the 18 vol set is a true subset of the 52 vol set. yep. I have whipped up a small comparison sheet detailing the two editions and the available individual resources: 3312.Matching SESB editions.xlsx hope this helps everybody to understand what is and what is not included.
Some questions from your chart:
In other words, despite the different descriptions, are the contents and all apparatuses and texts, etc., IDENTICAL in 52 and 18 when it comes to:
BHSBHQRahlfs LXXThe VulgateNA-27UBS-4
ISTM that if 52 and 18 are identical for the above, it looks like I have little need to spend $145 more to get 52, because:
A. I don't know what use WiBiLex or the WIVU Constituency Tree Analysis would be, with the syntax search stuff I already have in Logos Platinum and Lexham.Am I correct that since I didn't download Constituency Tree Analysis in Libronix form by 3/31/2012, the version in SESB 3.0 is basically useless to me until SESB upgrades the Constituency Tree Analysis tool? I haven't reinstalled Libronix on my computer since my last reinstall last summer of Logos 4 on a brand new HDD. I guess I could install Libronix again (and then reinstall Logos 4?), but it seems that even if I did that, I wouldn't have the Libronix Constituency Tree Analysis file for it from Logos even if I bought the 52 vol. set, but would have to wait for SESB's promised upgrade/fix. IS THIS CORRECT?
B. I don't (yet?) read Coptic, so I'm not sure what use GThomas would be for me.
C. I have the Apostolic Fathers in Greek and English and Interlinear.
D. I don't read German, so a Greek-German version of Newman wouldn't help me.
E. I have Metzger with Platinum.
F. I don't really need Omanson (I have it in print form).G. I have no idea what I'd do with WiBiLex. From the online page http://www.academic-bible.com/en/home/ it looks like a collection of scholarly papers mostly in German (no use to me).
The extra $145 is not the deal; I could pay it and be fine. If you can convince me why I should get the full 52vol SESB instead of the 18vol edition, based on my comments and questions above, I'd do it, but I can't see good reason to at this point. THANKS!!
Super Tramp:I keep wondering if there is anything in the 52 volume collection that I am missing out on. Does anyone have any recommendations for individual title add-ons I should consider? I do not read French, German, Dutch or even Hebrew (yet).
I have updated the sheet a bit, thus you'll find now all the titles with their Logos.com links. If I were you, I'd mark all those (e.g. green) I own and all thos (e.g. red) that I definitely don't want and then decide on the unmarked ones based on resource descriptions etc.
4401.Matching SESB editions.xlsx
By the way: In doing this I found that SESB 52 vol currently seems to be the only way (save a SDA commentary set) to buy a NIV 84 from Logos. If you follow the link to this bible resource, they tell you:
:
Eric Weiss: Do both the 52vol and the 18vol editions have BHS SESB 2.0, or does 52vol have BHS SESB 3.0? Are the BHQ versions and contents and apparatuses, etc., identical in form and content in both 52 and 18? Does 52 have Rahlfs Septuaginta Altera (i.e., Rahlfs/Hanhart), but 18 has the old Rahlfs? Or do they both have Rahlfs/Hanhart (IIRC, in my Logos Platinum I only have the original Rahlfs) Are the Vulgate versions and contents and apparatuses, etc., identical in form and content in both 52 and 18? It appears to me that the NA-27 and UBS-4 editions are the same in 52 and 18, but I'm not totally certain. In other words, despite the different descriptions, are the contents and all apparatuses and texts, etc., IDENTICAL in 52 and 18 when it comes to: BHSBHQRahlfs LXXThe VulgateNA-27UBS-4
I can't answer all of your questions, since I only have the 18 vol. version. But the 18 vol. version does have Rahlfs Septuaginta Altera (i.e., Rahlfs/Hanhart). The Vulgate included is the Weber and Gryson 5th revised edition. The copyrights on the BHQ are 2004, 2006 and 2007. I would be really surprised if the 18 vol. verson is less up-to-date than the 52 version.
I just called my sales rep and went with the 18-vol set. I'll download it tonight and look at it and see what I think. I can't imagine needing to spend $145 more for the extra things the 52vol set has. And Rick Brannan will probably do a Coptic-Greek-English Interlinear of GThomas sometime in the future for Logos anyway (just speculating).
THANKS SO MUCH everyone for your responses to my questions.
Let me preface that I never owned the 18vol Logos user version, thus my answers are conclusions from titles, descriptions, the fact that 18vol is grey in my Logos.com, the individual resources Logos links to in the "SESB split"-posting etc. I answer to the best of my knowledge, but I may be wrong. Maybe some other users can chime in to confirm or to correct me. That said:
Eric Weiss: 1. Do both the 52vol and the 18vol editions have BHS SESB 2.0, or does 52vol have BHS SESB 3.0?
1. Do both the 52vol and the 18vol editions have BHS SESB 2.0, or does 52vol have BHS SESB 3.0?
Both have BHS SESB 2.0, there is no BHS 3.0 resource
Eric Weiss: 2. Are the BHQ versions and contents and apparatuses, etc., identical in form and content in both 52 and 18?
2. Are the BHQ versions and contents and apparatuses, etc., identical in form and content in both 52 and 18?
I believe so. There are no others.
Eric Weiss: 3. Does 52 have Rahlfs Septuaginta Altera (i.e., Rahlfs/Hanhart), but 18 has the old Rahlfs? Or do they both have Rahlfs/Hanhart (IIRC, in my Logos Platinum I only have the original Rahlfs)
3. Does 52 have Rahlfs Septuaginta Altera (i.e., Rahlfs/Hanhart), but 18 has the old Rahlfs? Or do they both have Rahlfs/Hanhart (IIRC, in my Logos Platinum I only have the original Rahlfs)
SESB 52 vol has Rahlfs/Hanhart, dated 2006. It is called "Septuagint: SESB-Edition" (or "LXX SESB" for short). Its Logos product page tells us it is contained in both 52vol and 18vol, thus I'm sure this is the one contained in 18vol as well.
Btw. I have two other LXX in my libray, both from Rahlfs: LXX dated 1996 and Logos LXX dated 1979; I assume their morphological tagging is different to SESB, but I don't know if there are textual differences as well
Eric Weiss: 4. Are the Vulgate versions and contents and apparatuses, etc., identical in form and content in both 52 and 18? 5. It appears to me that the NA-27 and UBS-4 editions are the same in 52 and 18, but I'm not totally certain.
4. Are the Vulgate versions and contents and apparatuses, etc., identical in form and content in both 52 and 18?
5. It appears to me that the NA-27 and UBS-4 editions are the same in 52 and 18, but I'm not totally certain.
I think they are identical - same reasoning as with LXX.
Regarding your comments:
Eric Weiss: A. I don't know what use (...) the WIVU Constituency Tree Analysis would be B. I don't (yet?) read Coptic, so I'm not sure what use GThomas would be for me. C. I have the Apostolic Fathers in Greek and English and Interlinear. D. I don't read German, so a Greek-German version of Newman wouldn't help me. E. I have Metzger with Platinum. F. I don't really need Omanson (I have it in print form).G. I have no idea what I'd do with WiBiLex.(..) it looks like a collection of scholarly papers mostly in German (no use to me).
A. I don't know what use (...) the WIVU Constituency Tree Analysis would be
F. I don't really need Omanson (I have it in print form).G. I have no idea what I'd do with WiBiLex.(..) it looks like a collection of scholarly papers mostly in German (no use to me).
re A: I have no idea what WIVU trees are (something like Cascadia?), how they work in Libronix and/or work/don't work in L4. I have never used this. Some people seem to be very keen on this feature.
re B: Maybe you misunderstood. You don't get Coptic Thomas alone, you get Thomas in a number of languages plus a commentary. But should you decide to study Thomas later, Logos sells the set for $50
re C/D/E/F: fair.
re G: yes. The SESB doesn't include the WiBiLex texts (which are unfortunately only in German, the German Bible Society begs their English readers for pardon and says they may someday offer it in English), but only the headwords. Thus this encyclopedia may come up if you search for e.g. "Akrostichon", but you'll be lead to the website for the entry. It's content is free and scholarly, but not really "in Logos".
Hope this helps,
Mick
This thread is a perfect example of how the forums were designed to work. I have been helped greatly by all the informative answers posted. I have also been helped by those wiser than myself who asked good questions I did not know enough to even ask. The comparison spreadsheets are always a help to me.
Many thanks to every poster in this thread. I am now very comfortable with my decision to go with the 18 volume resource and won't be second-guessing myself for the next several years.
Johann: Si Cochran: Hopefully, this means that the German Bible Society will be unbundling their products in the future. They did! At least in part.
I am glad for those who will benefit from this unbundling. Hopefully, everything in the SESB will be unbundled in the future. We may just be waiting on licensing issues and/or pricing to be worked out by Logos and the German Bible Society. I also hope both SESB packages will be retained by Logos. The packages are more cost effective for those wanting more than one apparatus. But as stated by others, if you are on the fence concerning the SESB, then it would be wise (if finances allow) to purchase an SESB package in the event that Logos might have to pull the product at the request of the publisher. I also concur that if would be helpful if Logos could way in on this matter. Although, I understand that Logos may have to remain silent because of a confidentiality agreement, or to retain good relations with the publisher.
Super Tramp: This thread is a perfect example of how the forums were designed to work. I have been helped greatly by all the informative answers posted. I have also been helped by those wiser than myself who asked good questions I did not know enough to even ask. The comparison spreadsheets are always a help to me. Many thanks to every poster in this thread. I am now very comfortable with my decision to go with the 18 volume resource and won't be second-guessing myself for the next several years.
I am glad to have started this thread, and it really is good to know that this thread has been helpful. I am also grateful that there has been so many helpful posts.
Eric Weiss:And Rick Brannan will probably do a Coptic-Greek-English Interlinear of GThomas sometime in the future for Logos anyway (just speculating).
Not likely; my Coptic isn't up to snuff for that. Besides, it's already been done (though not for Logos), right?
http://www.gospel-thomas.net/x_transl.htm
There isn't much Greek extant for the Gospel of Thomas. Now, the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, that's a different beast altogether.
Rick BrannanLogos Bible Software http://logos.comCore Texts Lead, Content Innovation