ISBE 1915 edition

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Posts 1032
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 4 2012 2:54 PM

Tony Kan:

Please bear with me but why buy ISBE 1915, when it won't have the benefit of the last 90-something years of theological development?

 

The development of theology over the past 90 years is seen by many as little short of apostacy

Posts 232
Genghis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 4 2012 3:38 PM

But surely

  1. technological benefits such as the internet, the pc which have led to useful tools such as Logos, and made so many writers and thinkers much more accessible to a wider audience; and
  2. archaeological discoveries such as the DSS and the insights that have arisen from an examination of such findings
  3. The continuing but gradual reapprochment between Jews and Christians

must have led to some progress?

Posts 1032
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 4 2012 4:02 PM

There is also the impact of relevatism, a denial of historic revelation and a desire not to offend those of other faiths at the expense of truth to balance against the issue that you correctly (in my view) identify as a plus points. It is important to recognise though that people are no smarter now then they used to be.  

At least historic thought can be seen in perspective, modern scholorship is hard to judge given the difficulty in seeing what our own blind spots are.  

Posts 2691
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 3:15 PM

Tony Kan:

Please bear with me but why buy ISBE 1915, when it won't have the benefit of the last 90-something years of theological development?

It's more for the conservative stance of the authors. There are other, better works, for newer findings.

FWIW, I bid on this one because I've found it more helpful at times. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 5 2012 3:41 PM

Tony Kan:

Please bear with me but why buy ISBE 1915, when it won't have the benefit of the last 90-something years of theological development?

I was thinking the same thing, and when I read Phil's statement:

Phil Gons:
He's referring to the revised edition (1979–1995). Some don't like it as well because it's not as theologically conservative as the original.

I almost spilled my drink because I am thinking that the 1995 version of ISBE is very very very conservative.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 10 2012 5:40 PM

tom collinge:
I almost spilled my drink because I am thinking that the 1995 version of ISBE is very very very conservative.

Coffee But Tom, the 1915 edition of the ISBE is very, very, very, very conservative. Wink 

                                                                          1       2       3       4

That makes the 1995 edition one "very" closer to the liberal column. Devil I find both editions worthy reference titles. They are both more conservative than the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary.

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David Carter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 10 2012 5:45 PM

Super Tramp:

That makes the 1995 edition one "very" closer to the liberal column. Devil I find both editions worthy reference titles. They are both more conservative than the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary.

Could you explain what makes the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary (which I own) less conservative or - to put it another way - more liberal than the ISBE? Maybe you could cite an example or two.

Thanks

 

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 10 2012 7:59 PM

You could start with source hypothesis for the Old Testament.   Anchor states....the long-established identification of J (the Yahwist), E (the Elohist), and P (the Priestly source) still provides the most plausible model for the composition of Genesis.  ISBE states....And when critics go so far as to divide J and E and P into many subparts, it becomes all the more impossible to make the names for God a basis for this division into sources.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 1517
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 10 2012 8:12 PM

Rosie Perera:

There are some books in history that have a classic year people continue to go back to as the best edition, even when later updates have come out. This was the case with the 11th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (1910-1911). People are still collecting it!

Yes, you are correct. The 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica and the 1828/1913 Webster's Dictionary are very popular among the evangelical homeschooling movement. Both are online free:

http://www.1828-dictionary.com

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org

 

 

Posts 570
Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 10 2012 8:33 PM

Tony Kan:

But surely

  1. technological benefits such as the internet, the pc which have led to useful tools such as Logos, and made so many writers and thinkers much more accessible to a wider audience; and
  2. archaeological discoveries such as the DSS and the insights that have arisen from an examination of such findings
  3. The continuing but gradual reapprochment between Jews and Christians

must have led to some progress?

CP's (IMO) are less about providing higher-quality resources and more about providing access to historic materials.  As has been stated, the revised ISBE is available on Logos, as is other recent dictionaries such as the AYBD.  Just expect to pay more for these, as they are still in copyright status.

Some, though, have maintained that older resources are at least equally, if not more, valuable than recent resources.  There's probably no end to that debate; but I believe it depends on a case-by-case basis.  Any good theology professor will tell you that you should familiarize yourself with the history of theological development - from the ancient church fathers to the beginnings of the Protestant movement to leaders in thought today.  Most Bible professors will tell you to do your exegetical research from commentaries that were produced within the last 10-15 years to make sure you are using the most recent research available.  As a pastor, I find the best response is somewhere in between.  My time is limited, so I cannot read every author on every subject.  So, I look at recent resources from publishers/authors I trust, church fathers (such as with the ACCS or Nicene & Anti-Nicene collections), early leaders within my denomination (i.e., John Wesley), and then scan other resources as I find time.  Of course, I only preach once every 4-6 weeks, so it makes it easier to do more study than someone who preaches every week.  If that were my situation, I'd probably rely on CP titles rarely or never simply due to a lack of time.

Just my two cents.

Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer.  Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App

Posts 30
Shawn Roper | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 7:58 AM

What about people who own the 1915 edition done by the Ehesians 4 group?  Will they also get the update automatically?

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 2 2013 11:28 AM

Shawn Roper:

What about people who own the 1915 edition done by the Ehesians 4 group?  Will they also get the update automatically?

No, they will not get an update. They will need to purchase the Logos edition. I do not think that the E4 edition was ever licensed by Logos, though E4 used Logos technology.

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 5 2013 7:58 AM

Shawn Roper:

What about people who own the 1915 edition done by the Ehesians 4 group?  Will they also get the update automatically?

Logos has given reduced upgrade prices in the past for resources published by AGES software. Those resources were licensed by Logos. The CDs published by E4 were frequently given away free and didn't include a license from Logos. Logos did not assume a contractual responsibility to service unlicensed resources. (Too bad because I've collected 32 E4 CDs. Sad )

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Posts 5127
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 5 2013 9:04 AM

Slightly off topic, but I tried installing my E4 disc the other day and my computer wouldn't even read it. I assume it is a Windows issue...it was compatible with 95 & 98 (and possibly XP, not sure) but nothing after, from what I can tell. I'm hoping I can get these resources unlocked--I still have the literature that came with it which has the list of what was included.

ASROCK x570 Creator, AMD R9 3950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, Asus Strix RTX 2080 ti, 2tb m.2 Seagate Firecuda SSD (x2) ...and other mechano-digital happiness.

"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not."

Posts 452
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 5 2013 9:11 AM

Super Tramp:

Rosie Perera:
There are some books in history that have a classic year people continue to go back to as the best edition, even when later updates have come out. This was the case with the 11th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (1910-1911). People are still collecting it!

There was a major editing and censoring of the content of Encyclopaedia Britannica after the 11th Edition. That is the real reason it has become so highly sought after. Comparing the 11th and 12th editions is an interesting study in historical revisionism.

While the 11th edition is great for comparative study, it had some serious problems of its own. Cf. the entries for Klu Klux Klan and Negro, and the missing entry for Marie Curie, who is only mentioned in passing under her husband's heading.

In the immortal words of the great American poet William Martin Joel:

You can get just so much
From a good thing
You can linger too long
In your dreams
Say goodbye to the
Oldies but goodies
'Cause the good ole days weren't always good
And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 5 2013 9:53 AM

Mitchell:
'Cause the good ole days weren't always good
And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems

As much as I like scenes from Italian restaurants,... the oldies but goodies contain much that has not changed. Sometimes their proximity to the past gives a clearer perspective than modern works by scholars who weren't even born when the transcribed events took place.

I agree with Billy the future looks great for packaging and delivery of Logos.  Drinks Bottle of red, bottle of white.....

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