David Thomas:imagine this scenario...
This is a very real possibility, especially since we are dealing with a living author from a school that has about 750 graduates a year.
Where whims and fancies sit in the seat of judgment, a man’s opinion is only so much wind, therefore take no more notice of it than of the wind whistling through a keyhole. ~ CHS
I think we have a choice in what we're going to choose to believe about our brothers & sisters on this forum...
And I think we'll be judged based on the way we judge... I'm going with grace. So as far as I'm concerned, I choose to believe it ain't rigged... and others are just as honest as I've chosen to be... and that some who otherwise don't care (& won't be buying no matter who wins) are trying their best to figure out how to help a majority achieve their goal.
So what if I'm wrong? The only difference it makes is which DISCOUNTS we get... not who lives or dies. Is there any truly bad outcome to this series?
/get off soapbox, now/
Blessings!
May the Grace & Peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you!Pastor Bill, Faith Presbyterian Church
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With my "100 votes" comment I was just making reference to the original post of this thread.
"As we speak, nearly every refresh brings Carson three extra votes, and his votes have made a staggering jump of 150 votes in just fifteen minutes, with an unprecedented 5% jump. Don't miss out on the amazing comeback."
How long will these sales last? With all the CP deals closing the budget somewhat shot.
NM. I found it 4/13
I do think it is interesting that last round, it was the NT Wright folks that were suggested might be 'cheating'.
I am not sure which is more troublesome, 1. people might be 'cheating' or 2. there is a real sense that some might actually do so. Could it be that the frequent harsh tone/attitudes of comments on the forum project such a nonChristian spirit, that the whole idea of 'cheating' becomes a real (or at least a really perceived) possibility? Sorry for the preaching.
I just bumped into the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy - they both said they voted for Carson
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Danny Parker: I do think it is interesting that last round, it was the NT Wright folks that were suggested might be 'cheating'.
I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean, unless it's an accusation.
I think I first suggested the possibility, and I'm no NT Wright "folk." I'm no big fan of either of these guys, and don't anticipate buying anything from either of them, no matter who wins.
It's the volume of one-sided increase that looks somewhat suspicious. This morning, Wright was ahead by 66% and now by only 54%. He gained around 100 votes to Carsons nearly 1000.
Danny Parker:I am not sure which is more troublesome, 1. people might be 'cheating' or 2. there is a real sense that some might actually do so. Could it be that the frequent harsh tone/attitudes of comments on the forum project such a nonChristian spirit, that the whole idea of 'cheating' becomes a real (or at least a really perceived) possibility? Sorry for the preaching.
I'm not sure which is more troubling either. But I doubt it has anything to do with harsh tones/attitudes, which have been significantly reduced in the last couple of months (at least on the threads I've read, YMMV). The tones/attitudes do demonstrate that not all who buy Logos' books are standards of moral excellence. My experience also tells me that this is indeed a possibility. And the evidence suggests that it might actually be going on. If you don't think 'cheating' in something like this is possible, then maybe you have lived a more sheltered life than I have.
BTW, I don't really know if anyone actually is cheating (how could I?). It's entirely possible that NT Wright has little appeal compared to DA Carson in North America, and the whole thing is just a time zone issue (as someone else suggested).
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"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley
Danny Parker: I do think it is interesting that last round, it was the NT Wright folks that were suggested might be 'cheating'. I am not sure which is more troublesome, 1. people might be 'cheating' or 2. there is a real sense that some might actually do so. Could it be that the frequent harsh tone/attitudes of comments on the forum project such a nonChristian spirit, that the whole idea of 'cheating' becomes a real (or at least a really perceived) possibility? Sorry for the preaching.
Okay everyone, let's take stock of the situation.
I don't think it helps by thinking the worst or scoring moral points at the expense of those raising this issue regarding a situation which statistically is clearly aberrant for reasons I could go into. I know I posted in the hope that that would stop it, and for no other reason. Probably this isn't Logos users - Wright has a lot of people on the blogosphere and elsewhere who like to detract from him anyway they can (I even remember a 'N T Wrong' blog). (and incidentally it was the LJ vote that first came under suspicion, as I understand it)
But let's take stock of this. It's just books. We're all falling out and attacking each other. I think it's sad that this contest has been marred, and I hope next year Logos learn from this and have one vote per computer (using IP addresses), which would reduce the problems. Now let's all put it behind us and move on. It'll still be a good deal no matter what happens. I confess as much as anyone I've allowed this to get out of perspective - no one likes to be defrauded. But it's time for us to move on. This is probably the only unmoderated forum out there - we are bigger than this.
Sorry if I added to the emotion. . I have no interest in the winner of this round as I have most of what I would be interested in already.
I get miffed at times with the conversations and attitudes on the forum. In all likelyhood most of this is merely the the nature of written media (hard to communicate effectively - I am as a guilty as anyone). My own attitude slips out as well, especially when I write in reactive mode. I apologize if I offended anyone in particular - I had no one in mind when I wrote. A sale of books where only benefit can occur should not evoke the negative emotions that it sometimes does(I included myself in this statement). Even the words 'cheat' is emotive and I should not have included it.
The issue of tightening the process does make sense for the future. It would have been better to have limited my comments to the process without coming across as judging people's actions and motives. Again I apologize.
I hope nobody's cheating but I'm rooting for Carson
Jacob HantlaPastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church gbcaz.org | hantla.com/blog
Jacob Hantla: I hope nobody's cheating but I'm rooting for Carson
The balance sems to be exactly the same this morning as it was when I voted last night: Carson 48%, Wright 52%.
Jacob Hantla:I hope nobody's cheating but I'm rooting for Carson
Ha! Ha!
I'd like to say that as someone speaking from the UK, I am a great fan of both these gentlemen, and greatly enjoyed attending a conference where Carson was the guest speaker. I've seen him a couple of times and I use his 'Love of God' devotions every day - but having said all that I'm rooting for Wright! . His contributions towards helping us understand the sweep of Scripture against it's Jewish setting has been absolutely immense. His writings have encouraged me tremendously.
My real concern is that someone might be rigging the game and I say that with as much grace as I can. I don't want to believe it but I'm sorry to say that I think the evidence stacks up that way. I have most of the books that Logos provides on both these gents, so the result won't really affect me, but as there is more material available through Logos from Wright compared to Carson (of which there should be more!) and hence more costly, I'm sorry that the opportunity to get his work at a greater discount looks as if it is slipping away.
If someone votes multiple times for the same guy is this cheating? I mean, does say anywhere that it is against the rules to vote more than once? The results matter little to me but maybe it really isn't cheating? And, no I have not voted multiple times but if I did I am not at all sure I would view it as cheating...that is, unless it is clearly stated you can only vote once.
Garrett Mercury: If someone votes multiple times for the same guy is this cheating? I mean, does say anywhere that it is against the rules to vote more than once? The results matter little to me but maybe it really isn't cheating? And, no I have not voted multiple times but if I did I am not at all sure I would view it as cheating...that is, unless it is clearly stated you can only vote once.
You must be from Chicago.
You're right that this is not explicitly stated. On the other hand, we're adults. I would hope we understand common conventions like voting.
Richard DeRuiter:You're right that this is not explicitly stated. On the other hand, we're adults. I would hope we understand common conventions like voting.
I tend to agree with you… but let me play devil's advocate. I was a youth pastor for 8 years, but returned to school 5 years ago. The students in my ministry all grew up with a cultural phenomenon called American Idol. That show, along with others like it, encourages people to vote often. You are supposed to. I don't think it is as clear cut as you might think. I would say that people my age and older are more likely to think like you, but those younger may have a completely different perspective. It is not a moral issue, it is a cultural one. If Logos had said one vote per person, I think you would have been clearly right.
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I would have to think Logos implied one vote, one person as they are using cookies to track the fact you voted. Sure you can remove the cookies and vote multiple times from the same computer or you can access it from different computers, but then I think you are gaming the system. Probably not what was intended. A more sure method would be for them to track voting by user id. But does a bible software company have to resort to that level?
Bruce Roth:I would have to think Logos implied one vote, one person as they are using cookies to track the fact you voted.
Some have suggested that whatever browser / system setup they were using provided opportunities for them to vote each time they visited the site. I agree, however, that there was likely some "gaming the system" going on.