I have lost resources because of switching to L4

Page 4 of 4 (78 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4
This post has 77 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 6:04 AM

DanPritchett:

MarkSwaim:
It has taken many by surprise which is strange when considering that all L3 users were mass emailed,

Mark, I need your help! Please forward me a copy of the email you are referring to so I can stop the madness before it spreads. Thanks!

I have been, for the most part, quietly stalking the forums and reading almost all the posts. I am continually amazed at the abuse the "marketing" department is taking. We are criticized for a lot of things like "lies, deceit, misinformation, stealing, mass emails, deception..." and I am seeing all the people who claim to know better than everyone here at Logos, and have more experience and brilliance in marketing and business than apparently everyone at Logos has, and quite frankly I am trying hard not to take it personally as the VP of Marketing.

It is very clear that some people are frustrated and confused, and it is very clear that there is no single page on the website that has 100% of all of the answers to 100% of all of the questions that 100% of all of the world may ever have related to Logos, Logos 3, Logos 4, upgrades, Mac, new product, differences, and 1,000 other things. Obviously a website has more than one page, and there are more ways to communicate to people than having one web page that is so massively long that it would take you a month to read it all and wouldn't really be what anyone but a very small handful of people would actually want. Truth be told the majority of our customers trust us to take care of them and they buy without any documentation at all and are very happy. You may have even seen the comments from one customer on the blog who wrote:

"I'm somewhat surprised by the criticism here. The first thing I did when I heard the news was click the upgrade button - a no-brainer for me. The vast majority of other companies charge huge amounts of money for upgrades. A few dollars for totally new software is terrific value, particularly when you also get long-awaited resources (such as the reverse-interlinears in most major versions).

The upgrade does look fantastic, I'm sure there'll be teething problems, but after using Logos for more than 10 years I trust that the company will put any problems which may exist right.

While I'm waiting for the download, I'm going to order an iPhone so I can have my library in my pocket...

PS for Bob/Dale - I do have some sympathy with the nay-sayers, however. This upgrade came as a surprise - even to your sales team I rang first thing this morning! And there isn't much info available, and of course no public betas. Just as one example of the lack of info, I've just spend several hundred dollars on the Portfolio edition, but I don't actually know what I've bought because it's not in the product comparisons. I've paid the money because I trust you - but users with less 'history' with Logos will have less trust, and be more suspicious of the lack of detailed information.

I don't have time to address all the criticisms and accusations (I am busy trying to get ready for the big email/launch) but I did want to point out one simple thing that should help everyone understand what is going on: We haven't launched the product in mass email—as is being claimed. If we did, I need to find the person that did it and fire them... 'cause it sure wasn't ready to be emailed.  Big Smile

I personally send 100% of all the mass email "Logos NewsWires", and I have actually not mass-emailed NewsWire with any information related to Logos 4 at all.  If you can show me the mass email to all Logos 3 users that you are referring to, that would help me track down the culprit here that snuck into my office and figured out how to create and send a NewsWire so I can take appropriate measures. If not, please help us by encouraging others to not throw around accusations of fraud, deceit, stupidity, and actions that have not taken place or even been attempted. That would help us be in a better mood as we try to serve the very people who are sapping some of our joy. 

The fact that we have not mass emailed NewsWire should be a clue as to the state of preparedness we are in. For good or bad, the awareness that Logos 4 has already gained, is due in large part to social media and early adopter excitement, yes, and our blog, homepage... But we can't pretend we aren't shipping when we are, just because all the upgrade info is not 100% clear. The way social media works today, and the way everyone is connected more instantly than ever before is largely responsible for the amazing response we have already seen to this new product.

The fact that Logos 4 is a new platform and that "upgrade" and "crossgrade" are very small words that need to convey a wealth of information and can't easily do it, and a host of other confusing issues that you can't even begin to imagine, all contribute to the reasoning behind why we have not emailed everyone yet. We are not ready to.

I know that not having all the facts can be frustrating, and I encourage everyone to have patience. Remember, this is all 100% optional. There seems to be a lot of frustration about a completely optional purchase. There is nothing wrong with not buying. There is nothing wrong with waiting. There is nothing wrong with Logos 3. We are offering a new product with new collections and some amazing deals on new books. If you want them, please feel free to get them. If not, don't. Why would anyone spend so much time being upset about something they don't want? If someone is confused they should ask a question or wait for more information. Jumping to conclusions and assuming they were stabbed in the back last week and they just forgot to die until now, doesn't make sense.

It is also important to remember that the main frustration is from existing users, and that the new Logos 4 users (for PC... because the Mac Alpha is "yikes!") Big Smile ...) are deliriously happy. They are new, and the vast majority are already off and running and have no questions (other than the random why it takes so long to index). We love our existing users and always take care of them. Here's the challenge though. We can't release Logos 4 and not expect the existing users to be curious/want to upgrade/want questions answered.

The new Logos 4 is the flagship product of our company. We stay in business partly by selling new packages. So as I am sure all the business experts will understand that it is a simple matter of "Logos 4 is our new product, welcome to our website, would you like to purchase Logos 4? YES! That looks AWESOME!"

In order to continue staying in business, we need to sell base packages to new customers. We also need to make sure our existing customers are well taken care of. We wouldn't want to say "Here is Logos 4 for all the new customers, but you old customers who have been with us for 15 years just have to wait for an upgrade until we imagine what 100% of all your issues, questions, complaints, frustrations... will be before we even let the first one of you get into the new product" That would be cruel and unusual punishment, and a horrible way to treat our faithful customers of so many years. We hoped by allowing our faithful customers the same opportunity to check out this brand new product at the same time and trust us, as they have in the past, that we always have and always will take care of them, we would be in a good position. If there were customers that did not trust us, or needed to read a manual or rulebook before parting with their hard-earned money on one of the best deals they may ever see on our most incredible product ever, that's fine too. They could wait a few weeks more and sit on the sidelines until they were given enough information to make an informed decision.

Sorry for the rambling message, and I am sure it still doesn't answer all your questions, but I have been working almost 18 hours a day to serve our customers, and it is Saturday after all... so I need to get out of here and get some dinner...

The short version is this: Please have patience with us, we are not perfect, we cannot possibly address every individual's personal preferences and styles for information and communication, but we are trying very hard to prepare for the big launch where we begin to communicate with our customers through mass email, direct mail, print ads in other publications, and more. We have done nothing like that yet, and hope by the time we do we will be well prepared to answer all the upgrade questions.

 

Dan!          *smile*                Peace and Joy in the Lord to you!  And!  Your Logos Compatriots!

                I have often prayed for Logos Bible Software to succeed.  I have - and will again - even now(!) - now, because I feel your hurt.  You folks made a decision to "GO"!           Some said L4 was not ready for "GO" - but you felt it was necessary and that it was "time."

We - customers and friends of Logos - need to respect that!  There were many reasons, I'm sure, for that decision.  Personally, I think it was a good decision.  For current Logos users.  And!  For new customers.

            We current users also urgently need new customers of Logos, not just to ensure our future libraries - but also to maximise Logos' and our benefits from the Logos Bible Software that is a great force for God's Good in this troubled and festering world.

            I, too, do not understand the 'carping' and the griping.  First, because what some are saying is not true.  But, especially, where is the Christian compassion and non-judgementalism?            

                  I've been your customer since the early 90's - 3.5 floppy disk time!          *smile*                So glad to move up now to "Portfolio"!        Thank you, muchly!

Dan, take courage and comfort.  I know some of these hasty and intemperate and thoughtless words have hurt you and your team and that you feel the pain and might tend toward bitterness.                        But, indeed, take courage and comfort.                    There is a vast Logos Community throughout the world that is truly appreciative and thanks God for you all!

         Yours in Christ,              .........   Mel

P.S.       Also, thank you for the Lectionaries!           Am heading for Worship with my own Christian Community within the next hour, and have already read the Lectionary readings for the day several times.                         That really enhances my Worship Time in Divine Service!              Thanx!   *smile*

                                 

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 6:12 AM

MarkSwaim:
I will not hide any annoyance that my computer was destroyed because with the download of L4 I was not given enough instruction to understand what was about to happen. 

 

Did a fire start and melt it?

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 8:49 AM

Robert Pavich:
Did a fire start and melt it?

Smile

! think I ran out of space and that caused my notebooks to go into a strange hibernation mode to which it does not come out.  That is the simple way of putting it.  I will be able to reformat once I clean up my stuff on it...but it sometimes takes time because of this hibernation thing.

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 8:55 AM

Ah....got it...

thanks for explaining...

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 8
Brian Blanchard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 9:51 AM

"Sorry for the rambling message, and I am sure it still doesn't answer all your questions, but I have been working almost 18 hours a day to serve our customers..."

Dan, thanks for sharing your heart...I liked the part about quietly stalking the blogs. All of us involved in leadership understand how difficult it is to take people to the next level not only in organizations, but personal growth and expansion. It is a good work that you and Bob have undertaken. In faith I declare that the timing was perfect, the product is perfect, the Logos team is perfect.

I believe you heard from God, and are walking out the vision, having made it plain- and are running with it...The details are details. The scheduled add-ons, upgrades, improvements, adjustments, and patches will take care of the details.

Blog Arrogance is an amazing phenomenon. It is an enigma of the unredeemed parts of our Christian hearts. Trust is the main thing. The great majority of current users trust Logos to be an organization of mature Believers with great integrity, skill, passion, and commitment. They are true believers and raving fans.

When we are face-to-face with people who are militant in their own agenda of self-interest we handle it with poise and dignity, keeping private what needs to be so. But in this digital format, the lack of discretion and restraint can wound, sometimes unintentionally. Where we have authority we can dismiss issues or people, and choose to not to engage...but the phenomenon of all things published--whether good and pure and lovely-or not,  is not always helpful to all, and damaging to some.  We all understand the feelings when our ministries are attacked, and the tendency to personalize it... It comes with the territory. We pray that in the fatigue of this season you keep your focus on the vision and are blessed in the progressive joy of doing great exploits.

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 10:22 AM

BrianBlanchard:
When we are face-to-face with people who are militant in their own agenda of self-interest we handle it with poise and dignity, keeping private what needs to be so. But in this digital format, the lack of discretion and restraint can wound, sometimes unintentionally. Where we have authority we can dismiss issues or people, and choose to not to engage...but the phenomenon of all things published--whether good and pure and lovely-or not,  is not always helpful to all, and damaging to some.  We all understand the feelings when our ministries are attacked, and the tendency to personalize it... It comes with the territory.

Brian,

Well said...

I, for one am guilty of this more than a few times on these forums and other "digital places"....It's a tough thing to deal with; and I'm in need of God's grace on this every day.

 

bob

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 2:23 PM

Thanks Chris for answering Marks question about my source.  I might have added a few other quotes, - including a few from the beta group which I don't feel like hunting down right now.

It's Sunday afternoon, and I've already preached three times and have a fourth tonight. 

Day of rest?   Nah.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 2:31 PM

RossStrader:

Dan, well done. That was very good. 

I think I'm making a "Dan Pritchett is my homeboy" t-shirt... anyone want to order one? 

I'll buy.

DanPritchett:
as we try to serve the very people who are sapping some of our joy

I'm praying for everyone at Logos today to remember Christ, and find joy in the journey.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 8017
LogosEmployee

Philip Spitzer:

KevinJones:
Bradley's quote seems to indicate that I would need to purchase the Logos LE upgrade to have the harmonies. I am having a hard time swallowing this since I purchased the crossgrade, I previously had the harmonies, and they are not listed as new resources on the product comparison page (implying they are already baked into the system or provided as resources).

The Harmony's should absolutely be included in the minimal CrossGrade. If they are not, then the website needs to be changed immediately and those who purchased the crossgrade so far should be given a free license to these things. This is from http://www.logos.com/minimalcrossgrade

The "Minimal Crossgrade" web page has been significantly extended since the last time I saw it (when it did not mention Harmonies at all). I don't believe that the harmonies it mentions are actually included in the set of resources unlocked by the Minimal Crossgrade. I don't know if this is an error in the webpage, or an error in the internal definition of what the minimal crossgrade collection actually contains.

Nevertheless, since they are explicitly listed as part of the collection on logos.com, it seems fair that you should have them; I have unlocked the six Parallel Passages & Harmonies on your account. The next time you start Logos 4 (or if you type "update now" into the command bar), it should start downloading these missing books.

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 3:30 PM

Bradley Grainger:
I have unlocked the six Parallel Passages & Harmonies on your account. The next time you start Logos 4 (or if you type "update now" into the command bar), it should start downloading these missing books.

 

Once again showing the class that Logos and it's employees possess.

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 3809
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 3:31 PM

Bradley Grainger:
Nevertheless, since they are explicitly listed as part of the collection on logos.com, it seems fair that you should have them; I have unlocked the six Parallel Passages & Harmonies on your account. The next time you start Logos 4 (or if you type "update now" into the command bar), it should start downloading these missing books.

Sorry if my post came across too direct. This seems very fair of you. You have been doing a stellar job and I have always appreciated your attitude and assistance. Thanks!

Posts 143
iamk | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 6:40 PM

Thanks Bradley. I appreciate your help and the help of everyone else.

Posts 1
JohnFanous | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 25 2009 8:44 PM

Bradley, I'm in the exact same situation as KevinJones -- I purchased the Crossgrade and didn't get the parallel resources / harmonies, even though it's listed on the webpage as part of the crossgrade.  Is there something you can do about this?

Thanks,

John

Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 25 2009 9:15 PM

JohnFanous:
the parallel resources / harmonies

I have Platinum.  Where should this resource be located in L4?  I cannot find it.

Posts 744
Armin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 1:47 AM

Dan Pritchett:

Sorry for the rambling message, and I am sure it still doesn't answer all your questions, but I have been working almost 18 hours a day to serve our customers, and it is Saturday after all... so I need to get out of here and get some dinner...

I am appalled by the messages posted on this forum. Even though I have only exchanged a few e-mails with Dan and Logos, I learned one thing about him and this company: You are AWESOME! I have rarely come across a company with such excellent customer support. I have never been in a situation where Logos did not understand my situation and try to help as much as they could. In the end, every single issue that I had got resolved. And I am sorry that I am pretty impatient with people who are so impatient that they cannot wait a few days to get things resolved or a few weeks to get additional features added. The guys at Logos must be swamped with e-mails, phone calls, ....  Just give them a break and wait for a few days.

Dan, you are a great team! Press on! Don't get frustrated by a few inappropriate messages on this forum. You have a large and faithful customer base.

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 6:32 AM

ArminEberlein:
I am appalled by the messages posted on this forum. Even though I have only exchanged a few e-mails with Dan and Logos, I learned one thing about him and this company: You are AWESOME! I have rarely come across a company with such excellent customer support.

I like you Armin!  You said what I keep thinking, but which some weird sense of propriety prevents me from saying with both barrels so to speak. 

ArminEberlein:
Dan, you are a great team! Press on! Don't get frustrated by a few inappropriate messages on this forum. You have a large and faithful customer base.
Me too!

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 131
Joel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 7:04 AM

Just on the topic of the original topic, and having gotten a bit lost in this thread- I seem to be lacking the harmonies mentioned in the training videos as well. I did a minimal upgrade from Scholars, and from what I read I'm supposed to have them.

I fired off an email to support with the details of my confusion, but... I can wait ;) Was there a conclusion to this issue in this thread somewhere?

Posts 26531
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2009 12:31 PM

KevinJones:
This is probably the worst software transition I've ever been involved in. 

Give thanks to God; I've been in several that were worse. Including one in which management demanded that we implement when we were about 6 months from ready. We spent the next six months proving that we were right. Sad

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Page 4 of 4 (78 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 | RSS