Personal Books and bible reference in other languages

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Posts 6
Miguel Morin | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Apr 10 2012 7:05 PM

Hi,

My native language is French and I like to create personnal book with the Logos builder. The problem I face a lot is with the biblical reference that are different in french vs english

ex: the English reference John 3:16 is John 3, 16 in French

As you see, after the builder compile my french book, only the chapter of the book works, then the verse link to another chapter of the book instead of the verse...

Do someone else have that problem. Is that a way to prevent this. At first I was expecting that if I choose the French language in the book setting this problem will go away, but it dosen't.

Miguel

Posts 18634
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 10 2012 7:33 PM

This might be an aspect of localization that Logos hasn't done properly. If they don't offer you a way to specify what the punctuation looks like in your native language for Bible verse references, they should! For now, the only workaround would be to use the English style of verse references. But you ought to request from Logos that they address this problem in a future version: post a message on the Suggestions forum, email to suggest@logos.com, and/or add this request to the Logos forum on UserVoice, where other users can vote on it too.

One way they could make this work without adding a lot of UI complexity (which they like to avoid) would be to use comma for the chapter/verse separator if you set the UI language to some language where the known standard Bible verse reference is as you describe it. The only UI languages Logos currently supports besides English are Spanish and Swedish, though French has been requested. I'm not sure whether language always determines the format of Bible verse references. For example, I wonder whether French Canadians use the North American Bible reference style even though they speak French? 

One question I have for you is, could you describe this Bible verse reference format more completely for those of us who don't know it? How do you write the verse reference for several non-adjacent verses in the same chapter? In English, we would put John 3:16,18. How would you write that in French in a way that would be non-ambiguous? How do you write a series of verses which in English would be separated by semi-colons, e.g., John 3:16; 4:26; 5:19-20, 30.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 10 2012 10:50 PM

Miguel Morin:
ex: the English reference John 3:16 is John 3, 16 in French

You can work around this by using a label e.g.

[[John 3, 16 >> John 3:16]]   or  [[John 3, 16 >> Jn 3:16]] 

This has to be done even in English usage e.g.

[[Galatians 1 verses 8 and 9 >> Gal 1:8-9]]

Dave
===

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 11 2012 12:45 AM

Miguel Morin:

My native language is French and I like to create personnal book with the Logos builder. The problem I face a lot is with the biblical reference that are different in french vs english

ex: the English reference John 3:16 is John 3, 16 in French

As you see, after the builder compile my french book, only the chapter of the book works, then the verse link to another chapter of the book instead of the verse...

Do someone else have that problem. Is that a way to prevent this. At first I was expecting that if I choose the French language in the book setting this problem will go away, but it dosen't. 

Miguel,

yes, this is a common problem for those outside of the English language. Actually, for some it's two problems: different names of bible books and different notation (so John 3:16 would look Johannes 3, 16 in German). Logos works internally on the names of books issue (they support Czech names, e.g.) - for the notation issue they haven't told us. So right now, there are only workarounds. A user from the Netherlands has built a script for Word that detects bible references and replaces them with the tagging you have been told about. It is helpful and may be usable for French notation as well - you may check it out here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/28341/349750.aspx#349750 

Hope this helps a bit,

Mick

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 2733
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 11 2012 1:05 AM

Miguel, I am not sure if that would work for French but in Czech here is what I do. When I change (not UI, since there is no such thing in Logos as yet) but the PB language to Czech and than I use Czech book names or abbreviations and the form of the reference is the same as in French (for instance Jan 3,16-17) it works. You may notice the only difference is there is no space after the chapter number, but I am not sure if that is the problem. You may try. See the example:

Bohuslav

Posts 18634
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 11 2012 1:20 AM

Bohuslav and others, just curious: how *in Czech or German or French) do you Europeans differentiate between these two references:

 

  • Romans chapter 6 verses 1 through 4 and verse 8
  • Romans chapter 6 verses 1 through 4 and chapter 8

 

In English the first would be Rom 6:1-4, 8  (space optional). The second would be Rom 6:1-4; 8 (space optional). Do you use semicolons in Europe for separating multiple references? E.g., Jan 16,12;14 for multiple verses within the same chapter? Then how do you do multiple chapter/verse pairings within a book? Just curious as I'm trying to test this now with French to see if it works with the method you described.

EDIT: I just tried a test with 1 Corinthiens 3,4 in a PB where I set the language to French and it didn't work. At least it did recognize the book name and turned it into a link, but it was two links: one to 1 Cor chapter 3 and one to 1 Cor chapter 4. I also tried it for Spanish (same problem) and German (didn't even recognize the book name; tried both Jesaja 53,3 and Johannes 3,16 -- got the book names from here). It seems Logos has some work to do in localization.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 11 2012 1:30 AM

Rosie Perera:

Bohuslav and others, just curious: how *in Czech or German or French) do you Europeans differentiate between these two references:

 

  • Romans chapter 6 verses 1 through 4 and verse 8
  • Romans chapter 6 verses 1 through 4 and chapter 8

 

In English the first would be Rom 6:1-4, 8  (space optional). The second would be Rom 6:1-4; 8 (space optional). Do you use semicolons in Europe for separating multiple references? E.g., Jan 16,12;14 for multiple verses within the same chapter? Then how do you do multiple chapter/verse pairings within a book? Just curious as I'm trying to test this now with French to see if it works with the method you described.

In German the first would be Römer 6,1-4.8 (period separates verses in the same chapter)

The second would be Römer 6,1-4; 8 (semicolon separates chapters)

If you follow the link above to the Dutch bible discussion, the developer of the tool asked about these things and my answer there is more exhaustive. 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 18634
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 11 2012 1:36 AM

Oops, my EDIT of my last post came too late, after you'd posted a reply. But thanks for your answer to the first part of my post.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 11 2012 1:56 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
in Czech here is what I do. When I change (not UI, since there is no such thing in Logos as yet) but the PB language to Czech and than I use Czech book names or abbreviations and the form of the reference is the same as in French (for instance Jan 3,16-17) it works. You may notice the only difference is there is no space after the chapter number, but I am not sure if that is the problem

Bohuslav,

You Czech people are lucky guys. Not only that you get a study bible for free, but Logos has localized the PB compiler for you (not the UI as you rightfully point out).

I just ran a quick file through it - if the file language is set to Czech, it will detect Czech book names in the Czech notation - this should make it easy for Logos to localize the compiler for French and German as well, if the notation is really similar.

Unfortunately, the compiler will treat file language German as if it was English, as there is no compiler localization for this.

At least in my test, compiling a book as French will only accept French book names, but will use the English notation (Jean 3:16 will work, Jean 3,16 not - regardless of space) - this needs improvement for Miguel and his Co-French speakers.

Note that the PB compiler will ignore Word's internal language settings, so in a Czech- or French-compiled file, the English language reference to John 3:16 formatted as English (USA) will no longer be detected. 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 18634
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 11 2012 2:08 AM

Since I don't have the ability to move threads to other forums, and this needs to get to the attention of someone at Logos, and I think they don't normally look through the General forum for bugs, I've posted a bug report on the PC Beta forum with a link back to this thread.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 11 2012 2:14 AM

Rosie Perera:

Since I don't have the ability to move threads to other forums, and this needs to get to the attention of someone at Logos, and I think they don't normally look through the General forum for bugs, I've posted a bug report on the PC Beta forum with a link back to this thread.

That's good. I am sure Logos knows about this - the discussion has come up earlier, IIRC Toughski started on thread under his old nick, where Jana or someone else from Logos replied. But maybe it helps to remind them that a number of international users are waiting for this. 

 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 2733
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 11 2012 8:16 AM

NB.Mick:

Bohuslav Wojnar:
in Czech here is what I do. When I change (not UI, since there is no such thing in Logos as yet) but the PB language to Czech and than I use Czech book names or abbreviations and the form of the reference is the same as in French (for instance Jan 3,16-17) it works. You may notice the only difference is there is no space after the chapter number, but I am not sure if that is the problem

Bohuslav,

You Czech people are lucky guys. Not only that you get a study bible for free, but Logos has localized the PB compiler for you (not the UI as you rightfully point out).

I just ran a quick file through it - if the file language is set to Czech, it will detect Czech book names in the Czech notation - this should make it easy for Logos to localize the compiler for French and German as well, if the notation is really similar.

Unfortunately, the compiler will treat file language German as if it was English, as there is no compiler localization for this.

At least in my test, compiling a book as French will only accept French book names, but will use the English notation (Jean 3:16 will work, Jean 3,16 not - regardless of space) - this needs improvement for Miguel and his Co-French speakers.

Note that the PB compiler will ignore Word's internal language settings, so in a Czech- or French-compiled file, the English language reference to John 3:16 formatted as English (USA) will no longer be detected. 

Yes, I realize we are really lucky with that. Thank you Logos Yes.

Just to add: in Czech I can use whether a regular Czech (European) notation or, I can use the English one also. (like Matouš 1:10-12). The name of the Bible book have to be in the language set in the PB compiler for that resource.

P.S. And yes, it is not working the same way in my Polish and Slovak PB resources. Sad

Bohuslav

Posts 2733
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 11 2012 8:20 AM

Rosie Perera:

Bohuslav and others, just curious: how *in Czech or German or French) do you Europeans differentiate between these two references:

 

  • Romans chapter 6 verses 1 through 4 and verse 8
  • Romans chapter 6 verses 1 through 4 and chapter 8

In Czech it is the same as in German (see NB.Mick post.)

Bohuslav

Posts 6
Miguel Morin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 11 2012 9:08 AM

The German reference is the same as the French one. At least here in Quebec Canada

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NB.Mick:

I am sure Logos knows about this

The Bible data type supports English, French, Czech, Spanish, Portuguese, and Swedish.

However, it appears that the preferred chapter/verse delimiter for French is still ":", so "Jean 3:16" and "Jean 3.16" will parse properly, but "Jean 3, 16" will not. I'll file a case for this to be investigated.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 3 2012 9:34 AM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):

NB.Mick:

I am sure Logos knows about this

The Bible data type supports English, French, Czech, Spanish, Portuguese, and Swedish.

However, it appears that the preferred chapter/verse delimiter for French is still ":", so "Jean 3:16" and "Jean 3.16" will parse properly, but "Jean 3, 16" will not. I'll file a case for this to be investigated.

Bradley, is there anything you need and we users could contribute to help Logos support German as well? Since it seems you can parse the continental Europe syntax for verse/chapter recognition - a list of bible book names and common abbreviations in German should be available from Libronix days, or can we help?   

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 3 2012 9:56 AM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
The Bible data type supports English, French, Czech, Spanish, Portuguese, and Swedish.

Bradley and Bob Pritchett,

I would like to humbly request support for Russian, fifth most spoken language in the world by total speakers. I have been trying to expose many Russian pastors to Logos, but without a simple data-type support (which was available in Libronix, by the way), we cannot even use Personal Book feature.

Moreover, L4 is useless for Russian speakers, since even using the Russian Bible in Logos4 requires input of English (or Brazilian???) references!!!

I believe your strategy of only supporting languages, in which you have resources, is contrary to your overall philosophy of "release early, release often and listen to feedback". Please reconsider your position and restore Russian data type.

Posts 236
Mikko Paavola | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 13 2012 7:59 AM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):

The Bible data type supports English, French, Czech, Spanish, Portuguese, and Swedish.

However, it appears that the preferred chapter/verse delimiter for French is still ":", so "Jean 3:16" and "Jean 3.16" will parse properly, but "Jean 3, 16" will not. I'll file a case for this to be investigated.

 

Hi!

Is it easy to add support to other languages for the Bible data type? It would help much to have support for more languages when making PBs. For example I have to code every Bible reference link manually in my Finnish PBs and there's too much to do for that.

I think users could send the Bible abbreviations etc. to Logos to have the support. I've sent the Finnish Bible abbreviations to Logos long time ago and would like to have a support for them. I'll gladly resend them if you can't find them anymore.

 

Faithlife Connect + several Base Packages + Luther's Works, etc.
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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 22 2012 6:29 AM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):

The Bible data type supports English, French, Czech, Spanish, Portuguese, and Swedish.

However, it appears that the preferred chapter/verse delimiter for French is still ":", so "Jean 3:16" and "Jean 3.16" will parse properly, but "Jean 3, 16" will not. I'll file a case for this to be investigated.

From what I've seen, in German, French, Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese the typical citation format is Acts 1,1 with a comma, not a colon. Unfortunately I've also personally run into writings in English from the European mainland which use the same type of citation format, probably due to the influence of the majority of European languages using that format (cf. http://community.logos.com/forums/t/51122.aspx for another thread on this).

Apart from a petition to add these mainland European languages, another request - Logos does not read this format correctly in Spanish either! "Hechos 1,1" is not interpreted correctly. Almost all writings in Spanish use this format, not Hechos 1:1 (which is beginning to be found now, due to influence from the USA).

I've added a Feature Request for this here: http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/2947047-support-scripture-reference-formats-from-personal- Feel free to vote for it! Wink

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