DOC's Formatted for you for Personal Book Builder use in Logos.

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This post has 36 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 8
Justin Ashurst | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, May 3 2012 4:28 PM

Hey all,

If you have a pile of Doc's laying around that you've been meaning to format so you can import them into Logos, you can have them formatted for you here!

thanks!

Posts 10634
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 3 2012 4:38 PM

Afraid the free John Piper book you have on your webpage is under copyright. If you have permission to reproduce, that disclaimer must be included.

However, thank you for the formatting offer.

Posts 8
Justin Ashurst | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 3 2012 4:49 PM

Thanks for the heads up Jack...pursuing permission!

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 7:44 AM

Justin Ashurst:
If you have a pile of Doc's laying around that you've been meaning to format so you can import them into Logos, you can have them formatted for you here!

You're not a Logos or MP employee, are you? Have you asked their permission before you set up this site?

If not, it seems to me that -- no matter how good your intentions may have been -- you've set up a for-profit site in Logos' name, with embedded MP videos, and then used Logos' own forums to advertise it.

As for the latter, it's clearly covered by the Forum Guidelines:

Phil Gons:

Please do not use our forums to

  • (...)
  • advertise yourself, your business, your ministry, your website, etc. (a tasteful link in your forum signature is acceptable)

As for the former, not being American myself I have little insight into American law on matters like this -- but I know that I would check that law very carefully before I 'borrowed' other companies' names and videos without leave. It can get expensive.

Btw, I also find it somewhat deceptive of you to offer to format our files, yet leaving out the little caveat that it's going to cost. Other than the obvious spammers, I don't think I've ever seen anyone here offer their work other than for free.

 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 190
EmileB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 8:38 AM

After having reviewed the site, I have to agree that this is discourteous, inappropriate, unprofessional, and in clear violation of forum rules... at best, deceptive (as fgh noted), and  at worst, a violation of a number of copywrite and intellectual property rights as defined by both American and international law. This just isn't how to go about doing things, Justin, even if you have good intentions (which i will readily allow). Please show respect for Logos and their policies, and for your brothers in the Lord who lead Logos' business, by not embedding Logos' (or MP's) videos as if they were your own, stealing/altering the Logos logo, using their name, etc. I'd really like to suggest that you simply take down the site, but that is between you and the Lord. But i If you respect Logos, which I trust you do from the words on your site, please do try to show the company more professional courtesy.

Not trying to slam you, Justin, truly. Email/forums are always a difficult way to communicate something like this without coming across as unkind, rude or offensive, which isn't my intent.  But this just really doesn't seem right. I know we all have varying degrees of sensitivity on these issues (involving copywrite and intellectual property)... but if I was Logos, I wouldn't be very happy about this approach, nor would you be if someone capitalized off your business in this way and then advertised it on your website. Please try to be more sensitive to and think through the issues involved, which hopefully were just overlooked in your enthusiasm.

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 8:40 AM

Aaahhh, easy now. How is his any different than this? http://community.logos.com/forums/t/48938.aspx 

Are they both not 'promoting oneself' under the guise of the Logos Banner?

If one goes - then both go............

[edit: also please note:    advertise yourself, your business, your ministry, your website, etc. (a tasteful link in your forum signature is acceptable) - neither of which has been applied] but I think that Joe DID change his...

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 190
EmileB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 9:04 AM

Room4more, if you look at both sites, they are fundamentally different. In the first instance, one is for the purposes of generating a for-profit business, using Logos' forums as a means of advertising. The illustration you provide is a listing of YouTube videos created for educating users and is free. Very much in keeping with forum intentions.

Furthermore, the entire approach of Justin's site is problematic. Happily, he took down the "free" resources that he does not have a right to post (Piper's website even lists this as a violation, if memory serves)... but he has the same cavalier attitude throughout the site... which comes across, due to the manner of his use of Logos name, his taking of their logo and adapting it, embedding videos that are not his or providing any disclaimer, etc., as an official PBB site for Logos. The original post seemed deceptive from the perspective that it fails to mention that this is a fee-based service... perhaps an oversight, but it sits badly.

Take a look at the YouTube site, then take a look at Justin's. There is no comparison.

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 9:13 AM

Just a quick comparison:

-They both promote themselves w/Logos Software

-They both demonstrate ‘how’ w/Logos Software

-They both ‘advertise’ with Logos Software [per forum]

-They promote Logos Software 

The real difference: one ‘from their own website’ offers a “do it for you” service.

***Whilst it may be true that one does have the Logos signature, can u show that there is no viable gratuity[contractual agreement] between them? If Logos deems that the site is an infringement, then I think that they[Logs Bible Software] will contact him personally – don’t you think so as well?***

this is really nit-picking.......are there not other issues that we could squander about?

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 8
Justin Ashurst | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 9:45 AM

Well,

Thank you all for the feedback.  I've taken it down for now to seek counsel from Logos.  There wasn't any ill-intention.

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 10:17 AM

Justin Ashurst:

Well,

Thank you all for the feedback.  I've taken int down for now to seek counsel from Logos.  There wasn't any ill-intention.  

 

Dude, I wouldn't worry about. There is soooo much stone-throwing that you need to keep a generous about on hand and hide your heart in the process........besides, if any and all abided by the guidelines, everyone would be placated.

Hope this helps.

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 10:47 AM

Room4more:
Aaahhh, easy now. How is his any different than this?

  1. One is linking to his own videos, one is embedding someone else's.
  2. One is free, one is for profit.
  3. One posted in answer to multiple requests, one advertised.
  4. One is a former Logos employee, who presumably knows pretty well what he can and cannot do with Logos blessing, the other simply didn't think through the legal and other consequences of what he was doing.
  5. One is, at the very worst, a violation of a ridiculously strict reading of the Forum Guidelines, the other may very well be directly illegal, on multiple counts.

Room4more:
this is really nit-picking

Maybe you were nit-picking. I was warning a guy that he may be doing something that could have cost him a million dollar lawsuit if he'd done it to another company.

Justin Ashurst:
 I've taken int down for now to seek counsel from Logos.  There wasn't any ill-intention.

I didn't think there was. Which is why I never reported it as abuse, but waited for you to respond and take action yourself.

(Btw, I'm guessing your last post was an attempt at editing. You can edit by clicking More > Edit. You've got about 10 hours or so.)

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 10:56 AM

fgh, that was/is really funny! Personally, I think that the guy has suffered enough of a beating, let's not pour peroxide into already open wounds......hey I know, let's all go back and delete any and all things we posted that DID NOT apply to the guidelines -wha'cha say.. you gonna be the first and we follow u'r example...

leave it be. let HQ deal with it.....

time for a dance:  .

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 11:49 AM

I wouldn't have answered the question if you hadn't first asked it, and I wouldn't have defended Joe if you hadn't first attacked him. 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 12:25 PM

fgh:

I wouldn't have answered the question if you hadn't first asked it, and I wouldn't have defended Joe if you hadn't first attacked him. 

Not really, I only used that thread as an example of self promotion. I wasn’t ‘attacking’ anyone. As a matter of fac,t I did not bring to light that as a ‘former employee’ that he may be swinging against the company by doing a “free” video when MP does them for HQ revenue.

But the reality is you did not really answer my question that you admit you were aware of, just posted and avoided it, so that prompts me to ask You personally:

can u show that there is no viable gratuity[contractual agreement] between them?

Somehow I doubt that you can, other than presenting a conjecture, and a problematic one at best.

But thanks all the same for providing factual evidence that my post{ two past back from this one] was accurately correct.

 Thanks.

 

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 2:29 PM

Room4more:
Not really, I only used that thread as an example of self promotion. I wasn’t ‘attacking’ anyone. As a matter of fac,t I did not bring to light that as a ‘former employee’ that he may be swinging against the company by doing a “free” video when MP does them for HQ revenue.

You got a lot to learn about the Logos company, Morris Proctor, freebie support videos and the top brass at Logos.

Do you accuse Mark Barnes to be self-promoting with his Logos videos? Do you believe the many who write the Logos Wiki are self-promoting? I won't even ask you what your opinion is of the MVP crew.

The bottom line is: Never place a link in the forums that takes a reader off-site to a place that advertises products or services for monetary gain. It matters not if the product is Logos format or not. This would include John Fallahee, Morris Proctor, WordSearch, Christian Book Distributors, Accordance and Amazon. 

There is no need for stone casting. My posts (and most others) are reprimands or gentle correction. If people don't like being corrected, don't post erroneous information or dismiss the guidelines Logos has established for their own forums.   Romans 6:1-2

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 3:44 PM

Super Tramp:

Room4more:
Not really, I only used that thread as an example of self promotion. I wasn’t ‘attacking’ anyone. As a matter of fac,t I did not bring to light that as a ‘former employee’ that he may be swinging against the company by doing a “free” video when MP does them for HQ revenue.

You got a lot to learn about the Logos company, Morris Proctor, freebie support videos and the top brass at Logos.

Do you accuse Mark Barnes to be self-promoting with his Logos videos? Do you believe the many who write the Logos Wiki are self-promoting? I won't even ask you what your opinion is of the MVP crew.

The bottom line is: Never place a link in the forums that takes a reader off-site to a place that advertises products or services for monetary gain. It matters not if the product is Logos format or not. This would include John Fallahee, Morris Proctor, WordSearch, Christian Book Distributors, Accordance and Amazon. 

There is no need for stone casting. My posts (and most others) are reprimands or gentle correction. If people don't like being corrected, don't post erroneous information or dismiss the guidelines Logos has established for their own forums.   Romans 6:1-2

Ooooo, I like this one:

Yes, you are correct, WE all have much to learn concerning your statement. Evan in my many years as a LOGOS user, I Learn new things everyday.

Interesting how you say that I accuse another when using a thread as an example, yes very interesting indeed. Hey watch out for that beam…..

I think that you are missing the point….but I do find it interesting that you do not take the same actions towards those who post concerning the very same “off-site to a place that advertises products or services for monetary gain.” That you mention….yes, again very interesting indeed.

And the best yet:

Stone casting! Hahahahha pppllleeeaaassseee…Who gave you the right to reprimand? You , as well as those who wish to judge another are just like me – Please let me clarify so that there is NO misunderstanding – A USER! We neither have the right nor are given the right to reprimand anyone. Period. When you take that right, then you have placed yourself above the rest of us……yet, I am happy to read that you are above reproach…..may u be blessed.

Please do not insult my, or anothers, intellect by coming back and saying that this was a bad choice of word by you…..it won’t fly.

I neither condemn nor support Justin’s post, but you guy’s, wow! What a motley crew we are…..

But, again I thank you for your comment and adding again another factual statement for verification.

thanks.

 

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 932
David Carter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 4:10 PM

Room4more:

Who gave you the right to reprimand?

The little star under his name gives him that right.

Thanks

 

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 4:16 PM

David Carter:

Room4more:

Who gave you the right to reprimand?

The little star under his name gives him that right.

Thanks 

 

Yeah, right. care to count how many are actually post that pertain exactly within the parameters of the guidelines? I venture to say that this is one of many that do not apply.

And, I think that you are wrong, no one gave us the right to reprimand - ever.     .....Its not our software nor our forum - do you see any moderator's/ NO. c any Admin/ NO. we should judge ourselves first. would you not agree?

But thanks for the comment.....

 

 

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 889
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 4:19 PM

R4M,

My friend, please consider before responding in anger or with sarcasm.  It may only be my perception, but to me, your posts (especially for the last few weeks) come across as divisive, defensive, and pretty aggressive.

Your brother, --Mark

"I read dead people..."

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2012 4:25 PM

You all just need to get over it.****

No I am not angry, nor am I trying to be sarcastic, but really, reading the last few posts made by others really brings out the double-talk that shrouds this forum........everyone needs to step back and re-read what they have been posting.

The guy made a an honest post, you guy's literally torn him a new one........let it go.

**********

Anyone who has never made a mistake on this Forum, Please take a star!! You have earned the right to be a bully.

Thanks.

 

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

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