English translation of the LXX

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nikk | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Nov 15 2009 4:40 PM

I'm interested in an English translation of the Septuagint, but I don't think Logos sells any. The only thing I could find is the Lexham Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint, on the product page they say it contains an "English literal translation". Do you guys think I can use that as a translation if I don't know Greek?

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 5:03 PM

Logos has The Septuagint Version of the Old Testament by Sir Lancelot Charles Lee Brenton. It is an English translation of the LXX.

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Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 35
nikk | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 5:48 PM

Mark A. Smith:

Logos has The Septuagint Version of the Old Testament by Sir Lancelot Charles Lee Brenton. It is an English translation of the LXX.

I just noticed it on the comparison chart as "Brenton Septuagint", but it's only available from scholars up.

How can I get it without upgrading? I can't find a product page for it.

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 7:36 PM

some books are only sold as a package

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

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nikk | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 8:09 PM

Joe Miller:

some books are only sold as a package

That's most unfortunate.

I'm still interested in an an answer to my original question, can I use the LGEIS as a translation if I don't know Greek?

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 9:24 PM

nic.scarlat:

Joe Miller:

some books are only sold as a package

That's most unfortunate.

I'm still interested in an an answer to my original question, can I use the LGEIS as a translation if I don't know Greek?

I really don't think so.  It's too disjointed.  Not really a translation!

Here's a sample.............    Peace & Joy in the Lord to you ............   ..... Mel

 

Book 1 (Psalm 1)
    1   Μακάριος   ἀνήρ ὃς   οὐκ   ἐπορεύθη   ἐν  
μακάριος ἀνήρ ὅς οὐ πορεύομαι ἐν
JNSM NNSM RR-NSM B VAPI3S P
blessed, happy man, husband who, which, that not to make, to go in, into
Blessed is the man who not2 does go11 in
βουλῇ   ἀσεβῶν   καὶ   ἐν   ὁδῷ   ἁμαρτωλῶν   οὐκ  
βουλή ἀσεβής καί ἐν ὁδός ἁμαρτωλός οὐ
NDSF JGPM C P NDSF JGPM B
counsel, advice ungodly, unholy, profane and in, into way sinful not
the counsel of the ungodly2 and in 3 the way 4 of sinners5 not2
ἔστη   καὶ   ἐπὶ   καθέδραν   λοιμῶν   οὐκ   ἐκάθισεν 2   ἀλλʼ    
ἵστημι καί ἐπί καθέδρα λοιμός οὐ καθίζω ἀλλά
VAAI3S C P NASF NGPM B VAAI3S C C
to stand, make stand and on, in a seat pernicious; evil not to sit but rather
does stand1 and in3 the seat4 of evil persons.5 not2 does sit1 But rather
ἐν   τῷ   νόμῳ   κυρίου   τὸ   θέλημα   αὐτοῦ καὶ   ἐν   τῷ   νόμῳ  
ἐν νόμος κύριος θέλημα αὐτός καί ἐν νόμος
P DDSM NDSM NGSM DNSN NNSN RP-GSM C P DDSM NDSM
in the law Lord the will he, she, it and in the law
on3 the4 law5 of the Lord6 will (is focused)23 his1 and in law2
αὐτοῦ   μελετήσει   ἡμέρας   καὶ   νυκτός 3   καὶ   ἔσται   ὡς   τὸ  
αὐτός μελετάω ἡμέρα καί νύξ καί εἰμί ὡς
RP-GSM VFAI3S NGSF C NGSF C VFMI3S C DNSN
he, she, it to meditate, study day and night and to be, exist, happen like the
his1 he will meditate4 day and night. He will be like the
ξύλον   τὸ   πεφυτευμένον   παρὰ   τὰς   διεξόδους   τῶν   ὑδάτων  
ξύλον φυτεύω παρά διέξοδος ὕδωρ ὅς
NNSN DNSN VRUP-SNN P DAPF NAPF DGPN NGPN RR-ASN
tree the to plant along the stream the river which
tree which has been planted5 along the streams of the rivers which
τὸν   καρπὸν   αὐτοῦ   δώσει   ἐν   καιρῷ   αὐτοῦ   καὶ   τὸ   φύλλον   αὐτοῦ  
καρπός αὐτός δίδωμι ἐν καιρός αὐτός καί φύλλον αὐτός
DASM NASM RP-GSN VFAI3S P NDSM RP-GSN C DNSN NNSN RP-GSN
the fruit he, she, it to give in season he, she, it and the a leaf he, she, it
fruit3 its2 will give1 in4 season.6 its5 And leaf2 its1
οὐκ   ἀπορρυήσεται καὶ   πάντα ὅσα   ἂν   ποιῇ
οὐ ἀπορρέω καί πᾶς ὅσος ἄν ποιέω
B VFMI3S C JNPN RK-NPN T VPAS3S
not to fall off and all how much ever to make, do
not4 will fall off;3 In all things how much1 -ever2 he does

Tan, R., deSilva, D. A., & Logos Research Systems, I. (2009; 2009). The Lexham Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint. Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 490
R. Mansfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 15 2009 9:58 PM

 

Mark A. Smith:

Logos has The Septuagint Version of the Old Testament by Sir Lancelot Charles Lee Brenton. It is an English translation of the LXX.

Unfortunately, Brenton is extremely outdated both in scholarship and in style. I looked and was surprised not to see a Logos module of the recently released New English Translation of the Septuagint (NETS). The NETS is now the standard English translation of the LXX.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2009 1:28 AM

I believe that the Orthodox Study Bible is also a translations from the LXX ... better than Brenton (which I had as a PBB in L3) but not as good as NETS.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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R. Mansfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2009 5:54 AM

MJ. Smith:

I believe that the Orthodox Study Bible is also a translations from the LXX ... better than Brenton (which I had as a PBB in L3) but not as good as NETS.

Yes, the Orthodox Study Bible OT was adapted from the NKJV OT to fit the LXX because the NKJV NT was already based on the Byzantine text which is recognized by the Orthodox church. I don't have a copy, but I've read that a handful of places have been found in which a reading in the OT resembles the Masoretic text more than the LXX because of oversights in the translation/adaptation process. A second edition is supposed to fix these.

The NETS was adapted from the NRSV OT in a very similar way, but much more extensively. Many places in the NETS have very little resemblance to the NRSV because of the thoroughness of matching the LXX. 

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2009 6:07 AM

Milford Charles Murray:
I really don't think so.  It's too disjointed.  Not really a translation!

Actually, if you re-assemble the "English Literal Value" line in the specified word order, you'll get very close to a readable translation. Here's your Psalm 1:

1 Blessed is the man who does not go in the counsel of the ungodly and does not stand in the way of sinners and does not sit in the seat of evil persons.

2 But rather his will (is focused) on the law of the Lord and in his law he will meditate day and night.

3 He will be like the tree which has been planted along the streams of the rivers which will give its fruit in its season. And its leaf will not fall off. In all things however much he does he will be given prosperity.

4 Not so the ungodly, not so. But rather (they are) like the chaff which the wind spreads abroad, away fro the face of the land.

5 On account of this the ungodly will not stand up in judgent nor the sinful (will stand) in the council of the righteous.

6 because the Lord knows the way of the righteous; but the way of the ungodly will perish.

This is why we have (painstakingly, I might add) tried to ensure that the English Literal Translation line has word order numbers, so that the line can be reassembled in an English reading order. It may be stilted in some points, but this largely because it seeks to work each word into the translation to make the Greek order/syntax transparent in the English, yet still be somewhat readable.

So I'd say that yes, you can get a readable, modern English translation of the Greek of the LXX from the Logos interlinear. If that is your primary interest, I'd recommend turning off all interlinear lines except the 'Manuscript' and 'English Literal Translation' line. It will remove the other stuff (still available on right-click) and make it easier to read/assemble in your head.

Hope it helps.

 

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2009 6:25 AM

Rick Brannan:

Milford Charles Murray:
I really don't think so.  It's too disjointed.  Not really a translation!

Actually, if you re-assemble the "English Literal Value" line in the specified word order, you'll get very close to a readable translation. Here's your Psalm 1:

1 Blessed is the man who does not go in the counsel of the ungodly and does not stand in the way of sinners and does not sit in the seat of evil persons.

2 But rather his will (is focused) on the law of the Lord and in his law he will meditate day and night.

3 He will be like the tree which has been planted along the streams of the rivers which will give its fruit in its season. And its leaf will not fall off. In all things however much he does he will be given prosperity.

4 Not so the ungodly, not so. But rather (they are) like the chaff which the wind spreads abroad, away fro the face of the land.

5 On account of this the ungodly will not stand up in judgent nor the sinful (will stand) in the council of the righteous.

6 because the Lord knows the way of the righteous; but the way of the ungodly will perish.

This is why we have (painstakingly, I might add) tried to ensure that the English Literal Translation line has word order numbers, so that the line can be reassembled in an English reading order. It may be stilted in some points, but this largely because it seeks to work each word into the translation to make the Greek order/syntax transparent in the English, yet still be somewhat readable.

So I'd say that yes, you can get a readable, modern English translation of the Greek of the LXX from the Logos interlinear. If that is your primary interest, I'd recommend turning off all interlinear lines except the 'Manuscript' and 'English Literal Translation' line. It will remove the other stuff (still available on right-click) and make it easier to read/assemble in your head.

Hope it helps.

 

Well Done, Rick!

                   It was 3:00 in the morning your time when you posted, but - obviously - your mind was still clear and sharp!         *smile*           Wow!

                  AND!

You are absolutely correct.  I should have spent just a bit more time pondering before I posted.  Thank you!  One more example of the fantastic concern Logos has for its patrons (customers? clients? users?)               

           Also, I really appreciate your word "painstakingly"!         A modest statement of the "drive" you good folks have for quality!

Peace and Joy to you in the Lord .............                     ...........   Mel

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2009 6:37 AM

No problemo. The word order numbers can get lost in the mix with all the other data there.

Milford Charles Murray:
It was 3:00 in the morning your time when you posted, but - obviously - your mind was still clear and sharp!

Actually, it was 6AM. The only thing I saw at 3AM was the backs of my eyelids. Not sure how the time came through otherwise.

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2009 6:45 AM

I saw your post "timed" at Today 6:07 AM - then mistakingly - in my mind - subtracted 3 hours from my time because I'm EST.  Dunno what I was thinking!                Obviously I was not "sharp" and "crisp" when I wrote.        *smile*

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 35
nikk | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2009 8:10 AM

Rick Brannan:

Milford Charles Murray:
I really don't think so.  It's too disjointed.  Not really a translation!

Actually, if you re-assemble the "English Literal Value" line in the specified word order, you'll get very close to a readable translation. Here's your Psalm 1:

1 Blessed is the man who does not go in the counsel of the ungodly and does not stand in the way of sinners and does not sit in the seat of evil persons.

2 But rather his will (is focused) on the law of the Lord and in his law he will meditate day and night.

3 He will be like the tree which has been planted along the streams of the rivers which will give its fruit in its season. And its leaf will not fall off. In all things however much he does he will be given prosperity.

4 Not so the ungodly, not so. But rather (they are) like the chaff which the wind spreads abroad, away fro the face of the land.

5 On account of this the ungodly will not stand up in judgent nor the sinful (will stand) in the council of the righteous.

6 because the Lord knows the way of the righteous; but the way of the ungodly will perish.

This is why we have (painstakingly, I might add) tried to ensure that the English Literal Translation line has word order numbers, so that the line can be reassembled in an English reading order. It may be stilted in some points, but this largely because it seeks to work each word into the translation to make the Greek order/syntax transparent in the English, yet still be somewhat readable.

So I'd say that yes, you can get a readable, modern English translation of the Greek of the LXX from the Logos interlinear. If that is your primary interest, I'd recommend turning off all interlinear lines except the 'Manuscript' and 'English Literal Translation' line. It will remove the other stuff (still available on right-click) and make it easier to read/assemble in your head.

Hope it helps.

 

Thanks Big Smile

Posts 142
James Macleod | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 9:04 PM

Is there plans to do the NETS in Logos? I have the hard copy and it is really good.

Posts 23
Garry Vanderveen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 4:36 PM

Yes, inquisitive minds want to know... When will NETS be available to Logos users?  It is indispensable! :-)

 

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Mike Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 4:56 PM

R. Mansfield:
The NETS is now the standard English translation of the LXX.

Well, as close to being a standard that it can be. When it comes to scholarship, I've always thought the words "standard" and "translation" didn't mesh together.

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Mike Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 4:57 PM

GarryVanderveen:

Yes, inquisitive minds want to know... When will NETS be available to Logos users?  It is indispensable! :-)

Gottingen is indispensable. Stick out tongue

 

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Mike Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 4:59 PM

Joe Miller:

some books are only sold as a package

There are plans to make these available, but it takes time for everything to be process, new product descriptions to be written, files to be moved, etc. -- actually writing the descriptions is probably the biggest and most time consuming part, particularly when we're continuously working on getting pre-pubs up at the same time.

Posts 23
Garry Vanderveen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 5:11 PM

True enough. But for non-LXX specialists, NETS is indispensable! Ok, they're both indispensable; they serve two different purposes. Plus, NETS is available on Accordance and Logos needs to keep up with the Jones - if you know what I mean. :-)

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