Wish List: Lexham and Syntax-type resources

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Ron Corbett | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, May 30 2012 9:35 AM

QUESTION: If Logos were to take another step forward with the Lexham resources, Open-Text, Cascadia, etc. what features would you most like to see?

EXPLANATION: The resources we have in Logos are GREAT. With such fantastic databases we could do even more precise searches if each resource would allow it.

EXAMPLE:  Wouldn't it be great to be able to search all the tags in Open-Text? All the Primary Clauses or prepositional phrases in a particular book / passage?

The ability to be able to search for a word or morphological form WITHIN such a phrase / frame would also be great.

I personally think the usefulness of these resources can be expanded. If you think this kind of list might be helpful, what other tools or sorting features would you like to see?  

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Mark Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 30 2012 9:54 AM

I agree

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Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 30 2012 1:02 PM

Ron Corbett:

The ability to be able to search for a word or morphological form WITHIN such a phrase / frame would also be great.

Ron, I may be misunderstanding what you are asking for, but I think something like this is already available. Using Cascadia, I searched for all the prepositional phrases in Ephesians where the preposition was 'in' and 'Christ' was in the dative case. Didn't spend a lot of time with this, so it might could be tweaked more, but here's what I came up with.

πάντα εἰς δόξαν θεοῦ ποιεῖτε

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Ron Corbett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 30 2012 3:00 PM

Gary O'Neal:

Ron, I may be misunderstanding what you are asking for, but I think something like this is already available. Using Cascadia, I searched for all the prepositional phrases in Ephesians where the preposition was 'in' and 'Christ' was in the dative case. Didn't spend a lot of time with this, so it might could be tweaked more, but here's what I came up with.

Yes Gary, this kind of search is possible in some of these resources. Not all though. There are quite a number of tags (which I assume to be data base fields)  for which there are no search possibilities. And even for those which do have some search options, there could probably be more - which would be a great blessing.

The bottom line is that these resources in Logos are so unique and so invaluable; so why not exploit them even more?

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 30 2012 3:21 PM

Ron Corbett:
Yes Gary, this kind of search is possible in some of these resources. Not all though. There are quite a number of tags (which I assume to be data base fields)  for which there are no search possibilities. And even for those which do have some search options, there could probably be more - which would be a great blessing.

The Lexham Syntactic Greek NT, the OpenText.org SAGNT and the Cascadia Syntax Graphs are all searchable (using the syntax search dialog) on all available criteria. To find all primary clauses in OpenText.org in Titus, for example, the below is all that's needed.

On prepositional phrases, OpenText.org isn't the greatest because they denote prepositional phrases in two ways, depending on if the prep phrase modifies a verbal component (adjunct with a specifier that is a preposition) or a substantive (relator). But with the Cascadia Syntax Graphs, it is again just searching for one object type, here again narrowed to Titus:

On searching a phrase/frame for a particular word or morph, in Lexham SGNT you can do this as well. Key here is to watch the "Matching Skips Levels" option (right-click object for the easiest way to toggle this). Here's how I'd search Dialogic Frames (so, when someone is speaking to someone else) in Mark for Imperatives:

Are there other sorts of things you're thinking of? All of the data in the syntactic annotations is exposed for searching, sometimes it just takes a little to get the type of query you're intending to do. Let me know if there are other sorts of things, and I'll try to get queries together demonstrating them.

 

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

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Ron Corbett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 30 2012 7:42 PM

Wow. Go, Rick!!!

These are helpful examples. I'll look over the Syntax bibles and see if I can find other examples. It does make sense that Syntax Searches would be able to function to this degree, but I am pleased to see that we can (at least ... you can:) do this already. Thanks for these.

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Ron Corbett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 10:39 AM

Rick Brannan (Logos):

Are there other sorts of things you're thinking of? All of the data in the syntactic annotations is exposed for searching, sometimes it just takes a little to get the type of query you're intending to do. Let me know if there are other sorts of things, and I'll try to get queries together demonstrating them.

 

OK, I'm back. Hope this goes a little way toward clarifying what I am seeking. And thanks for your detailed response.


In the LDGNT, I right-mouse clicked on the word PRINCIPLE in Rom 10:14. It opened a menu where I could select LEXHAM DISCOURSE (Principle) on the right side of the pane and then choose SEARCH THIS RESOURCE on the left side. This produced a search result of "382 hits in 158 articles".
Great !

Now, I highlighted prep phr in The Lexham Clausal Outlines of the GNT, right-clicked and selected prep phr on the right side of the pane.  I then selected SEARCH THIS RESOURCE on the left side of the pane. It yielded 1,119 results in 375  articles. Also Great !

However ... in Open-Text (Clause Analysis), highlighting PC (Primary Clause) and right-clicking opens the menu choices. With Open-Text ... primary clause selected, there is no SEARCH THIS RESOURCE option; but there IS a SEARCH ALL OPEN RESOURCES option. Here, it would be great to have the ability to SEARCH THIS RESOURCE.

Same for Lexham ...: Sentence Analysis.

What we do have is great; and often, but not always are search procedures and solutions intuitive / obvious to the less tech-savy user. And I am one who had been softly lobbying for a little help in some of these areas.

Rick, your examples are very, very useful but not as accessible as items on the right-click menu.   Paradise

PS - My only goal is to see perhaps a few more possibilities added over time. Especially those which will make a great program w/ great resources even better. 

Thanks.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2012 7:49 PM

Ron Corbett:

Now, I highlighted prep phr in The Lexham Clausal Outlines of the GNT, right-clicked and selected prep phr on the right side of the pane.  I then selected SEARCH THIS RESOURCE on the left side of the pane. It yielded 1,119 results in 375  articles. Also Great !

However ... in Open-Text (Clause Analysis), highlighting PC (Primary Clause) and right-clicking opens the menu choices. With Open-Text ... primary clause selected, there is no SEARCH THIS RESOURCE option; but there IS a SEARCH ALL OPEN RESOURCES option. Here, it would be great to have the ability to SEARCH THIS RESOURCE.

The issue here is that the Lexham is a Bible whereas the OpenText is a Clause Visualizer, which is not searchable. Try the same with the OpenText GNT (Bible) and you can search as you expected (but it doesn't distinguish PC and EC).

Dave
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Ron Corbett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 1 2012 4:31 AM

Dave Hooton:
the OpenText is a Clause Visualizer, which is not searchable

Thank you Dave. If you are right (which I trust you are) this helps with my suggestion. I don't suggest we need the bible text to be searchable in OpenText, but the labels for the different kinds of clauses / phrases, etc are probably database fields and if so why not provide searching?  Clause / Sentence Visualizer resources should all be searchable, no? Things like: PC, EC, SC, etc - these kinds of simplified searches would be helpful.

 The

Dave Hooton quoting:
With Open-Text ... primary clause selected, there is no SEARCH THIS RESOURCE option; but there IS a SEARCH ALL OPEN RESOURCES option. Here, it would be great to have the ability to SEARCH THIS RESOURCE.

Also, the SEARCH ALL RESOURCES returns 0 hits which doesn't make sense. [Why have a menu choice that returns no hits?] If the LDGNT can provide that ...

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 1 2012 6:59 PM

Ron Corbett:
I don't suggest we need the bible text to be searchable in OpenText, but the labels for the different kinds of clauses / phrases, etc are probably database fields and if so why not provide searching?

Select the labels/symbols in the OpenText GNT Bible (not the Clause Analysis) and they are searchable - including EC.

Ron Corbett:
Clause / Sentence Visualizer resources should all be searchable, no?

The Info page shows that they are .lbxclv files, so it's a format that visualizes the associated database (*.lbssyn) which is searchable via Syntax Search.

Dave
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 1 2012 7:18 PM

Ron Corbett:
Also, the SEARCH ALL RESOURCES returns 0 hits which doesn't make sense. [Why have a menu choice that returns no hits?] If the LDGNT can provide that ...

If you search the OpenText Clause Analysis for a PC  the search term is <OpenTextSyntactic = Primary Clause> which returns 0 results in the Bible (provided it is open). But if you search the Bible for a PC  the search term is <OpenTextSyntactic = Clause> which returns 54118 results in the Bible, so clearly the first search term is incorrect. The other terms that do work are <OpenTextSyntactic = Embedded Clause> and <OpenTextSyntactic = Secondary Clause> so I would suggest Logos fix the Bible so that <OpenTextSyntactic = Primary Clause>  works.

Dave
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Ron Corbett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 3 2012 7:44 AM

Thanks Dave,

As always, very helpful.

I am still looking at that right-click menu as a possibility for these kinds of syntax searches. It could be done, no? Benefits? 1] speed and 2] no formulas to memorize

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 3 2012 3:27 PM

Ron Corbett:
I am still looking at that right-click menu as a possibility for these kinds of syntax searches. It could be done, no?

All the search terms I quote come from the right click menu of the Syntactic bible resources. Otherwise you have to use Syntax Search to properly explore these relationships.

Dave
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