Linking Problem with BibleWorks and Logos 4

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Posts 188
Si | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Nov 16 2009 9:14 PM

I am having a problem linking words in BibleWorks to my lexicons in Logos 4.  I am using the External Link Manager in Bibleworks to link to Logos 4.  This linking worked in Logos 3, but Logos 4 crashes when an attempt is made to link from a word in BibleWorks to a Lexicon in Logos 4.  Linking works from BibleWorks to Logos 4 when I link to a Book/Chapter/Verse in a Bible or Commentary, but not for words.  Any ideas?  My current path for BDAG is libronixdls:macro|name=TextKeyLink|text=<dummy>|lang=el|scheme=beta|res=LLS:46.30.18.  

Thanks

Posts 10
Stephen MacKenzie | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 22 2010 7:50 AM

Not surprised that you are not getting support on this question all of these months.

The Bibleworks external links simply leveraged a more open navigation protocol used by Logos in previous versions.  That protocol has changed without regard for Bibleworks users.   The new protocol does not hurt the user experience for Logos only users; it only hurts the experience for Bibleworks + Logos users.  One could only speculate why the backward compatibility was not maintained - probably something like the new protocol has x, y, and z, advantanges and these outweighed the disadvantages and our survey data, blah, blah, blah.  Obviously, if breaking Bibleworks users in this scenario had an impact on Logos 4 sales, the accomodation would have been made, but since it was determined that it would not, hurting the Bibleworks user experience is not a consideration.

Posts 31976
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 22 2010 5:44 PM

Stephen MacKenzie:
Not surprised that you are not getting support on this question all of these months.

There is another, simpler answer. When you posted, a number of Logos 4 features were not completed. 4.0d was the first version to take into account the needs of external link applications - even now there are known limitations. When you wrote the post the answer was simple - continue to link to Logos 3 until Logos 4 has implemented the appropriate functions.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1717
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 22 2010 7:32 PM

It's really more oversight than anything else.

When we last thought about this issue we had a more flexible framework for external manipulation. But, since almost no one took advantage of it, and it took a lot to maintain, we did things differently in Logos 4.

We now have external links into Logos 4 via URL's, but we haven't restored the special hack we wrote to support BibleWorks' non-Unicode Greek and Hebrew in URL commands. (We were able to do this with a special macro -- "TextKeyLink" -- in our Logos 3 script-based framework.) Since we don't use BibleWorks, it didn't occur to us to do this again in Logos 4.

I'll see what we can do to get it working again...

-- Bob

 

Posts 509
Nord Zootman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 22 2010 8:07 PM

Bob,

That would be great for those of us that us both products, and it speaks highly of you that you would be concerned about those who use a competing software along with yours. Thank you.

Nord

Posts 9063
LogosEmployee

Stephen MacKenzie:

Not surprised that you are not getting support on this question all of these months.

The Bibleworks external links simply leveraged a more open navigation protocol used by Logos in previous versions.  That protocol has changed without regard for Bibleworks users.   The new protocol does not hurt the user experience for Logos only users; it only hurts the experience for Bibleworks + Logos users.  One could only speculate why the backward compatibility was not maintained - probably something like the new protocol has x, y, and z, advantanges and these outweighed the disadvantages and our survey data, blah, blah, blah.  Obviously, if breaking Bibleworks users in this scenario had an impact on Logos 4 sales, the accomodation would have been made, but since it was determined that it would not, hurting the Bibleworks user experience is not a consideration.

Actually, the BW-compatible protocol was explicitly maintained in Logos 4 and works right now. Paste the following command into the Start > Run box to demonstrate it:

libronixdls:macro|name=TextKeyLink|text=*BI/BLOJ|lang=el|scheme=beta|res=LLS:46.30.18

(Obviously, BW's External Link Manager needs to be set up to generate these correctly.)

The original post was from November 2009; perhaps there may have been a bug at that time, but I cannot reproduce any crash/failure now when attempting to use "TextKeyLink" links. If you still are having problems, please post the exact link that is failing and we'll look into it.

Posts 14
Don Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 23 2010 5:30 PM

Don't think that works. You have the textkeylink pointing at biblos, I want BW to give me the lemma and send it to TDNT. The old code looked like this:

libronixdls:macro|name=TextKeyLink|text=<dummy>|lang=el|scheme=beta|res="TDNT"

I tried substituting these numbers for the "res" bit: LLS:46.10.16 -- doesn't work. BW is set to send a lemma text from the GNT, that text is supposed to be inserted for <dummy>.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

Posts 9063
LogosEmployee

Don Johnson:

libronixdls:macro|name=TextKeyLink|text=<dummy>|lang=el|scheme=beta|res="TDNT"

I replaced "<dummy>" with "*BI/BLOJ" (for testing), pasted the whole string into Start > Run, pressed Enter, and Logos 4 opened to the TDNT article on βίβλος. Does your system do the same if you paste the following into the Run dialog and run it?

libronixdls:macro|name=TextKeyLink|text=*BI/BLOJ|lang=el|scheme=beta|res="TDNT"

(I.e., taking BW out of the equation, does Logos 4 correctly process the URL that BW should be generating?)

Posts 14
Don Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 23 2010 7:39 PM

Yes, your link works, but the problem is getting BW's output to match. I once saw what BW output for amartia - it looks like this: a(marti/a

I forget how I got this to show up in Logos... I have tried quite a few different combinations (just guessing from clues I have seen).

Basically, BW exports the Greek lemma as per this example. Apparently the way the Logos3 key worked, it would send the lemma for the entry to Logos which would then look it up in the designated resource (the "res" part of the code). What your code does is switch to Logos, but not to TDNT, just to the last opened resource. Then it goes nowhere from there.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

Posts 14
Don Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 23 2010 7:53 PM

to more clearly answer your question, YES, your link works as advertised in Logos, taking BW out of the equation.

Hmmm... I tried to replace your biblos with a(marti/a [only in Logos, no BW], but that link won't work. I also posted  your biblos into BW's command line, but it doesn't look right - the Iota looks like an I with "curly" lines on top and bottom and the sigma is invisible... just checked and that is because it is in all caps, but... no difference, I can make your link work in Logos with lower case biblos, but still can't seem to get BW to export what we want.

But maybe we are getting somewhere with this.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

Posts 9063
LogosEmployee

Don Johnson:

Yes, your link works, but the problem is getting BW's output to match. I once saw what BW output for amartia - it looks like this: a(marti/a

OK, I think I understand what the problem is now.  BW sends the word in lowercase, but it appears that Logos 4 introduced a bug where it requires Beta Code Greek to be in uppercase. (That's certainly the way it's typically written—see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_code—but there's no good reason for us to reject lowercase beta code input.)

I apologise for the inconvenience; this will be fixed for 4.1 Beta 9.

Posts 5619
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 24 2010 9:34 AM

Bradley Grainger:

OK, I think I understand what the problem is now.  BW sends the word in lowercase, but it appears that Logos 4 introduced a bug where it requires Beta Code Greek to be in uppercase. (That's certainly the way it's typically written—see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_code—but there's no good reason for us to reject lowercase beta code input.)

I apologise for the inconvenience; this will be fixed for 4.1 Beta 9.

From that wiki page: "The TLG Beta Code Manual uses upper-case ASCII letters to represent Greek letters. A variant (used by the Perseus Project) uses lower-case ASCII letters instead.". 

Now we can add, "A third--more robust--variant (used by Logos Bible Software) recognizes both upper and lowercase letters."  Yes

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Posts 14
Don Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 25 2010 6:27 PM

Hey, cool. I'll look forward to getting this working again. Many BW / Logos users will thank you, I am sure!

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

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