Bug In "Downloading Resources" -- Perhaps Logos Software Engineers Will LISTEN and Fix It?????

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Posts 8
Fred | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Jun 3 2012 8:28 AM

Although Logos is INCREDIBLY unresponsive to fix obvious bugs in their software, I'll submit this one with hopes that perhaps there will be a change in attitude and they'll fix it.....

1) I am a Logos subscriber and have it installed on a couple of my computers and tablets.

2) I installed the latest (as of June 3rd) on a Windows 7 machine that is connected to a FIOS internet connection.

3) Logos needs of course to download its resources (my subscription includes 5.38 GB of resources since I bought a LOT of books).

4) The download began on 2-June at 2200 hours (EDT)

5) It's still going at 1123 hours (EDT) on 3-June.

6) I'm not complaining about the speed (5.39 GB is a LOT of data although it's still going pretty slow).

7) What I'm complaining about is the fact the the "percent done" indicator shows "4881% of 5.38 GB" so that I have absolutely no idea of the actual state of this download.

8) The way they SHOULD have phrased the dialog box is in terms of megabytes or gigabytes instead of "percentages". For example:

"4.881 GB of 5.38 GB"

 

Boy, I wish I could get a refund (and quit this Logos subscription) on this poorly tested and miserably written software!

Why doesn't Logos pay for and hire decent software engineers?

Posts 13398
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 3 2012 9:21 AM

Fred:
Boy, I wish I could get a refund (and quit this Logos subscription) on this poorly tested and miserably written software!

If you've bought it relatively recently, I'm sure you could.

Fred:
Why doesn't Logos pay for and hire decent software engineers?

It does. Insulting them isn't likely to persuade them to help you. Logs, on the other hand might.

(Personally, if you've got a fast internet connection, I'd cancel the download and try again in case the bug means you're stuck in an infinite loop. You're very unlikely to 'lose' files that have already been downloaded. You could even try and eliminate the download by copying resources from one of your other machines. Ask if you'd like instructions for this.)

Posts 10680
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 3 2012 9:30 AM

Mark Barnes:
Insulting them isn't likely to persuade them to help you.

I hope they put this bug on a prioritized list: Does it render wrong results? Does it lead to significant increase in processing time/resource utilization? Does it make the software less functional for a number of users? Is this something where the user may wrongly "trust" in the software? How often does it occur for a user: daily, weekly, monthly?   

 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 10953
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 3 2012 9:43 AM

Well, no offense to Fred, but you have to admit the issue he's referring to has been around from day 1 (probably well before that). In fact, in all likelihood, the beta testers complained about it. I know it's gone through the forum hoops well into the 3rd quarter and the coach seems to believe the 4th quarter can handle it as well.

You also have to admit that you probably have not seen another piece of software whose programmer allowed the numerator to be larger than the denominator. Even high school programming classes warn of that feux paux. Plus typical programmers are reluctant to display something users can easily see as 'not right'. Almost always they come up with 'something' that will shield the problem.

And lastly, the frustration Fred has, speaks to human expectations of basic respect. People wonder what kind of situation even allows for it in the first place. Kind of like selling a car with a missing hub cap.

 

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 29097
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 3 2012 3:27 PM

DMB:
You also have to admit that you probably have not seen another piece of software whose programmer allowed the numerator to be larger than the denominator. Even high school programming classes warn of that feux paux.

Er ... uh... you might want to qualify this a bit. I've programmed all sorts of things where the numerated exceeded the denominator. But I am careful that the denominator isn't 0.Geeked Now if you're talking about % completed or scored ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1206
Ward Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 3 2012 7:43 PM

Fred:

Although Logos is INCREDIBLY unresponsive to fix obvious bugs in their software, I'll submit this one with hopes that perhaps there will be a change in attitude and they'll fix it.....

...

7) What I'm complaining about is the fact the the "percent done" indicator shows "4881% of 5.38 GB" so that I have absolutely no idea of the actual state of this download.

...

Boy, I wish I could get a refund (and quit this Logos subscription) on this poorly tested and miserably written software!

Why doesn't Logos pay for and hire decent software engineers?

(1) I disagree; Logos has been more responsive to program changes in a more transparent way than anyone I've done business with (Intuit TurboTax being a distant #2 for me).

(2) This is a rather silly bug, and it does seem that a good coding practice would have trapped it as a potential error & compensated appropriately.  I've heard others report the same problem.

(3) If I were Logos, given your disposition as a customer in this thread, I'd probably offer you the refund.

(4) I don't personally know the Logos programmers, but I've used their software and seen some of their activity on the forums/via trouble tickets, and I heartily disagree with your libel of them.  They are writing lots of stuff for many platforms in cutting-edge ways and outflanking their competition in many many respects.  Yes, this is an irritating bug.  But your comment is extremely out of line and offensive.

 

Posts 8244
LogosEmployee

Hi Fred,

I'm sorry you're having problems installing Logos 4; I'd like to help you resolve them so you can get it up and running.

Fred:

Although Logos is INCREDIBLY unresponsive to fix obvious bugs in their software, I'll submit this one with hopes that perhaps there will be a change in attitude and they'll fix it.....

I'm not sure how you got this impression, but I'd like to know what we can do to correct it (other than fixing bugs, of course). (For example, if you take a look at the release notes for the recent releases--4.3, 4.5, 4.5a, 4.5b--you'll see that the list of bugfixes is longer than the list of new features. To my mind, this doesn't count as "INCREDIBLY unresponsive to fix obvious bugs". You obviously disagree; how can we improve?)

Fred:

1) I am a Logos subscriber and have it installed on a couple of my computers and tablets.

2) I installed the latest (as of June 3rd) on a Windows 7 machine that is connected to a FIOS internet connection.

3) Logos needs of course to download its resources (my subscription includes 5.38 GB of resources since I bought a LOT of books).

4) The download began on 2-June at 2200 hours (EDT)

5) It's still going at 1123 hours (EDT) on 3-June.

6) I'm not complaining about the speed (5.39 GB is a LOT of data although it's still going pretty slow).

7) What I'm complaining about is the fact the the "percent done" indicator shows "4881% of 5.38 GB" so that I have absolutely no idea of the actual state of this download.

This is a bug in the download operation. For some reason, one or more of the downloads are failing and the software is retrying them. Say a 100MB file fails to download and we redownload it. We had a few options at this point:

1) Bump the total download size, so the system goes from "100% of 5.38GB" to "98% of 5.48GB". (If we had done this, your software would currently be saying "99% of 262.6GB".)

2) Keep the original download figure the same, and allow the percentage to go over 100%; this is what you're seeing: 4881% of 5.38GB. 

3) Subtract the 100MB that failed, and go back to "98% of 5.38GB".

(Or (4) Abort the download, display a "Download failed" error message and leave your library partially downloaded.)

Our expectation was that any download failure would be transient, and retrying it should succeed. Additionally, message #2 is so obviously wrong that helps make it apparent that something abnormal is occurring. (With messages #1 and #3, it could seem like the system is still running normally; message #2 makes it evident that something is wrong.) It does appear, though, that the software is retrying the download more often than it should be. (If it keeps failing, there's not much sense in persistently retrying.)

Fred:

8) The way they SHOULD have phrased the dialog box is in terms of megabytes or gigabytes instead of "percentages". For example:

"4.881 GB of 5.38 GB"

In this case, due to the bug you've experienced, it would be saying "262.2GB of 5.38GB", which isn't arguably that much better.

We felt that percentages provided a better message in the general case.

Fred:

Boy, I wish I could get a refund (and quit this Logos subscription) on this poorly tested and miserably written software!

I'm not sure what you mean by "Logos subscription", but as mentioned by other posters, we offer a money-back guarantee on the software if you're not satisfied. But I hope that we can get you up and running.

Please follow the instructions here to generate log files, then zip them up and attach them to a reply to this post: http://wiki.logos.com/Diagnostic_Logging#How_do_I_get_a_diagnostic_Log.3f

This should give us enough information to understand the nature of the error, and hopefully provide a workaround now and a complete fix in a later version of the software.

Fred:

Why doesn't Logos pay for and hire decent software engineers?

Do you know any? We're hiring! http://www.logos.com/jobs/SoftwareDeveloper

 

Posts 74
Dennis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 1 2012 7:47 AM

This is my first Mac an iMac, I have had logos 4 on windows for a long time. so I followed the directions and everything went as planned until the download reached 99% then it seems to have hung-up and stayed there for several hours now? is it now indexing? or should I restart my computer? It doesn't seem to be doing anything now and I believe it should have responded in some way by now. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks Huh?

Posts 74
Dennis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 1 2012 8:04 AM

well, I canceled the download and now it says it is "Preparing your library" which seems to be normal? should I just wait now? or is it still hung-up? at the same time I had downloaded the logging tool from logos and it may be running now I don't know because it said I must quit logos before starting it but I wasn't running logos???

Posts 74
Dennis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 1 2012 8:52 AM

PRAISE THE LORD!!! It opened up and is running on my new iMac!!! Big Smile It's still indexing though so the system is R-E-A-L-L-Y........ S...L...O....W.... It just has the bare minimum memory of 4g so I was going to max it out anyway myself; Apple charges way too much for RAM you can get it for a fraction of the cost els ware and installing it is no problem. I do have a question though... Apple says the max memory is 16g although many tech sites including very reputable ones say this system can utilize up to 32g if you put it all in in matching pairs. OWC sells a kit for that and guarantees that it will run it and not void the warranty in any way.... Memory is cheap right now and I would like to put as much in it as I can while it is down. 

Any thoughts or suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated. Blessings!!! Big Smile

Posts 1206
Ward Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 1 2012 12:27 PM

Dennis, 

  you may need to post your questions in the Mac side of the forum in order to get the best answers fastest.  I use the windows product, but in general haven't found a huge load of RAM to be helpful.  Processor speed helps (my i7 is much faster to index than my i5), and an SSD drive seems to help too--but you may not see the proportional speed increase that you'd think you would see.  For example, when I'm indexing and watching my processor cores, they don't peg out--things just putter along.  Over time, I've found the best course of action for me after sucking down a lot of resources is to ensure they get downloaded and the indexing begun, then close Logos and any other big app that is open, walk away, and let it crunch for a while.  It seems to get done faster that way, and I'm not dealing with application crashes during major operations.

Posts 33
Randy Butler | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 15 2012 10:29 PM

Good to see that Logos downloads going over 100% is a known bug.  I'll chime in here since I had the same problem and it's a couple months after most entries on this thread and it's still a problem.  I'm currently in the process of re-installing Logos 4 on a Win 7 laptop after having to re-install Win 7.  Here's everything step-by-step if it's of any help to anyone.  I'm typing this as I go so let's see what happens...

Download had gotten to 100% and kept going.  One interesting thing is that opening Windows Task Manager, Networking tab showed data was actually flowing.  At exactly the 200% mark, data stopped but the % counter kept going, even though no more data was coming through.  At 209% and still no data flowing, I clicked the Logos tray icon and clicked "cancel download."  Logos started but there were no resources in my library.  Just a blank screen with the "You don't have a license..." message.  I typed "update now" in the command bar and downloaded 121MB update.  I closed Logos (I was not prompted to restart as usual) and restarted it and a new version update installation started.  I finally got the "Preparing Your Library" window. (Thank God for an i7 processor!)  Logos started and all my resources were present and accounted for!  Logos started indexing and also started to download another 437MB of updates (side note: these were coming through in very small bursts from Logos' servers and took quite a while).  Download complete, restart Logos.  Another 50+MB of updates downloaded.  Indexing... Time to go to bed.

Well, at this point everything looks fine.  This biggest thing I can tell you is if you see the download go past 100%, open Task Manager, click the Networking tab and see if data is actually coming through.  If it is, let it keep going.  If not, your download is in fact finished and you can click the tray icon to select 'cancel download' to get Logos up and running.  You may have to force the 'update now' and jump through a few updates but I hope this helps while this bug is still out there.

 

Posts 1934
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 16 2012 6:34 AM

Bradley Grainger (Logos):
(other than fixing bugs, of course)

Hopefully, Bradley, you meant, "(in addition to fixing bugs, of course)". We don't want you to correct the perception at the expense of fixing bugs. ;)

Donnie

 

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