Beale New Testment Theology now Available

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Clifford Kvidahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 13 2012 2:23 PM

While I understand and sympathize with all of you about wanting to have Beale's work by itself, do not also forget the other works that come with this set.  There is also the newly published "Dictionary of Scripture and Ethics," ed. by Joel Green, Michael Gorman's excellent "Elements of Biblical Exegesis," Craig Blomberg's very helpful "Handbook on New Testament Exegesis," N. Clayton Croy's must-read "Prima Scriptura," and the highly anticipated "Handbook on the New Testament Use of the Old," also by Beale. These alone are cause enough for me to want to jump in on the pre-pub now! In fact, if I did not have most of these already, that is what I would do!

To address the many comments surrounding the configuration of the set, I must admit that it seems odd and arbitrary at first glance. A New Testament Theology and Dictionary of Scripture and Ethics seems at first glance out of place withe the others in the collection. But they are not. The set is correctly labeled "Bible Interpretation Collection," for each of these books do offer in one way or another an "interpretation" of the Bible. So while it may be a loose connection, there is still a connection.

So I would encourage you to reconsider and give this collection another chance. There are some real gems in here that deserve your careful consideration. Big Smile

Cliff

Posts 1958
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 13 2012 3:13 PM

It's not that the books aren't all great, it's that the price becomes prohibitive once you guys force popular books into a set, which seems to be exactly what happened here.  There was some interest expressed for the book, and so Logos put it into a set in order to make more money.

It is like going to the car dealership to buy a Honda Accord, and when you express interest in one, they bundle it with a pickup truck, motorcycle, RV, minivan, and a desk lamp.  I'm sure all of those are nice, but it would be nicer to be able to buy the book that I actually want to buy.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 13 2012 3:22 PM

Clifford Kvidahl:
So I would encourage you to reconsider and give this collection another chance.

My reconsideration has brought me to the same conclusion.  I can't afford $200.  I guess I'll have to pass on Beale until it's split out of the set.  A year from now, maybe?  Sigh.

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Posts 448
Dave Moser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 13 2012 3:54 PM

Clifford Kvidahl:
The set is correctly labeled "Bible Interpretation Collection," for each of these books do offer in one way or another an "interpretation" of the Bible.
Then why is no one interested in any of the other resources? Because they aren't related in any practical way. People aren't going to study these topics side by side. The only thing they have in common is that they are all new books from Baker.

It seems like a ploy to sell extra books on the back of one popular resource. Insulting.

Posts 249
Giovanni Baggio | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 13 2012 6:27 PM

Clifford Kvidahl:

"...the highly anticipated "Handbook on the New Testament Use of the Old," also by Beale. These alone are cause enough for me to want to jump in on the pre-pub now! In fact, if I did not have most of these already, that is what I would do!

Well there are other books by Beale AND Carson that are similar to the "Handbook on the NT Use of the Old" you know.  Like the great Commentary on the NT Use of the Old or The Right Doctrine from the Wrong Texts?: Essays on the Use of the OT in the New, which I can almost assure you that that same material is included in the "highly anticipated handbook" that you just mentioned.  Plus a lot of the information on the SAME topic (i.e. NT use of the OT) can be found on Beale's commentary on Revelation NIGTC.  

We appreciate your enthusss lol but coming from a Logos employee doesn't surprise us plus your prolly getting a better discount than we are since you are a Logos employee.  Alrighty then I'm stunned that I have managed to keep this reply nice and civil...LOL

Good luck on getting this one out of prepub (I think Logos is gonna have to eat the production cost and put it out there to at least get some sales going and then maybe a year or two later Baker might decide to break up the "collection" and give us buyers what we ASKED for in the first place i.e. the one book by Beale what we requested!).

Thanks but no thanks! Maybe if you put the prepub price on payment plan you might have a little luck selling it to some.

Giovanni

Posts 448
Dave Moser | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 13 2012 6:31 PM

Giovanni Baggio:
Alrighty then I'm stunned that I have managed to keep this reply nice and civil...LOL
I was a little concerned that my last post was too critical. And then this happened.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 13 2012 7:28 PM

Clifford Kvidahl:
There are some real gems in here that deserve your careful consideration.

And if money were no object, sure, send them all. I don't doubt these are all quality works. I just don't want all of them and as someone else has said they from no logical collection.

Baker has been asking some high prices for its new books. I'd expect if Beale was unbundled they'd want $50-60 for it. I have $50 I might spend for that but not $210 for a bunch of books I simply don't want right now.

I will note for the benefit of others than the Baker Academic books offered almost two years ago have still not been released by Logos. I have some I ordered on August 23, 2010 that still have no publication information listed and no information as to when we will see them or what the problem is. If anyone expects this set to get to them quickly, I am afraid you may not see them until 2014 or later.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 5610
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 13 2012 8:22 PM

Mark Smith:
I will note for the benefit of others than the Baker Academic books offered almost two years ago have still not been released by Logos. I have some I ordered on August 23, 2010 that still have no publication information listed and no information as to when we will see them or what the problem is. If anyone expects this set to get to them quickly, I am afraid you may not see them until 2014 or later.

I cancelled my 2010 pre-order for Encountering the Book of Psalms since I got frustrated always seeing it in my preorder list (plus, the prepub price didn't have a discount).

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 13 2012 8:22 PM

Mark Smith:

Clifford Kvidahl:
There are some real gems in here that deserve your careful consideration.

And if money were no object, sure, send them all. I don't doubt these are all quality works. I just don't want all of them and as someone else has said they from no logical collection.

Baker has been asking some high prices for its new books. I'd expect if Beale was unbundled they'd want $50-60 for it. I have $50 I might spend for that but not $210 for a bunch of books I simply don't want right now.

I will note for the benefit of others than the Baker Academic books offered almost two years ago have still not been released by Logos. I have some I ordered on August 23, 2010 that still have no publication information listed and no information as to when we will see them or what the problem is. If anyone expects this set to get to them quickly, I am afraid you may not see them until 2014 or later.

I agree! By the way, someone in another thread called Zondervan Zondercrooks, but I believe they have been doing a better job than Baker has at giving us buyers what we really want: Bundles and broken down bundles to individual titles.  Just to echo what Mark and others have said, I won't buy the title I want until it's sold individually even if I have to pay more than 35 bucks for it but no more than 50.  Sad that this is going on.

But anyway, cheer up and let's hope for the better; maybe somewhere somehow Baker is reading this thread...;-)

Blessings!

DAL

Ps.  Tomorrow's announcement: "And now per customer's request - A New Testament Biblical Theology: The Unfolding of the Old Testament in the New by G.K. Beale will be made available as an individual volume!!!" LOL in my dreams! At least this day/night dreaming is not costing me $209 bucks Stick out tongue

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 13 2012 8:38 PM

Dave:
I'll be waiting for it to get broken up.
Yes Yup.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

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Posts 452
Is Mebin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 13 2012 9:06 PM

TCBlack:

Dave:
I'll be waiting for it to get broken up.
Yes Yup.

Agreed.  Except, this all means I will never buy this book on L4 because I want to read it now... so dead tree version, here I come!

Posts 1958
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 14 2012 5:25 AM

We are working under the assumption that Baker, Zondervan, Eerdmans, etc. are the ones requiring the books to be in sets.  It is not logical for those companies to be the ones requiring this.  They do not require this for ANY OTHER DIGITAL PULBISHER.  Logos always makes comments like "sometimes we have to follow requirements from publishers."  This does not seem like a difinitive "the publisher requires this to be a set."  Out of curiosity I sent emails to Zondervan, Eerdmans, and Baker to ask who requires this.

I would like to know from Logos if this set of Baker books is in a set because Baker is requiring it, or because Logos has made the choice to bundle them.

If this is a Logos deciscion, then that is fine, but it seems that Logos heavily implies that the publishers require the bundles, but never explicitly states that it is so.  This is suspicious to me, and I would just like a definitive answer as to who is pushing the "bundle model."

I love my Logos software, and I cannot imagine that I am the only one who would be spending a considerable amount more in general if all books were available individually.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 14 2012 5:47 AM

Assuming that it is Logos decision to sell this as a bundle, they are able to offer it at 40% off retail.  If they sold it as an individual book it wouldn't make much sense to offer it on prepub if it was right at retail price. Either way there would no doubt be a long waiting period, but even longer if we are waiting for the completion of the entire bundle.  So I guess the general consensus of the spiritually but not financially wealthy is we would rather have the single resource quicker at retail than wait for the entire bundle.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 14 2012 6:46 AM

Clifford Kvidahl:
These alone are cause enough for me to want to jump in on the pre-pub now! In fact, if I did not have most of these already, that is what I would do!

You're not even buying yourself? But you expect us to? How credible do you think that makes you sound?

Todd Phillips:
I can't afford $200.  I guess I'll have to pass on Beale until it's split out of the set.  A year from now, maybe?  Sigh.

Maybe they'll split it in February and put it on March Madness. Big Smile

Todd Phillips:
I cancelled my 2010 pre-order for Encountering the Book of Psalms since I got frustrated always seeing it in my preorder list (plus, the prepub price didn't have a discount).

I just did a very interesting and revealing thing: I sorted the prepub pages by Oldest: http://www.logos.com/products/search?Status=Pre-Pub&start=&sort=oldest&pageSize=60.

First comes 3 PBI titles and the Hebrew Pronunciations, but after that comes 23 titles in a row (if I counted correctly), all without a discount, and all looking like they're from Baker Academic. Another 3 follows shortly after. Only then comes The New Testament for English Readers, which we've just learned in another thread has been in production for more than two years. I hate to think of how long the ones above must have been there...

Clearly something is very wrong here!

 

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 14 2012 6:54 AM

Jerry M:
Either way there would no doubt be a long waiting period, but even longer if we are waiting for the completion of the entire bundle.  So I guess the general consensus of the spiritually but not financially wealthy is we would rather have the single resource quicker at retail than wait for the entire bundle.

Unfortunately, what I saw above shows the opposite: Baker bundles are produced and shipped; single, not discounted, Baker books linger forever.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 1680
Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 14 2012 7:10 AM

fgh:
Unfortunately, what I saw above shows the opposite: Baker bundles are produced and shipped; single, not discounted, Baker books linger forever.

That is rather odd, I would guess that it is easier for Logos to recover their invested time in selling bundles.  I wouldn't think it is a publisher issue, since you would think they already had their permission to sell the individual titles.

"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"      Wiki Table of Contents

Posts 129
Tom Blanchard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 17 2012 5:16 AM

I'm bordering on buying the paper version too, as I'd really like to use it in my teaching prep for next year. But I won't buy this set.

Please, Logos, at least give us some hope here, and soon, or I'll have to pass it up in digital altogether.

Posts 485
Randy Lane | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2012 12:05 PM

Despite all of the complaining about Beale's Theology only being available in this bundle, the bundle only needs a few more committed buyers to get authorized for production.

Posts 448
Dave Moser | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2012 12:23 PM

Randal M Lane:
Despite all of the complaining about Beale's Theology only being available in this bundle, the bundle only needs a few more committed buyers to get authorized for production.

Randal,

Your screenshot shows the pre-order button grayed out so it appears you've committed to buying the bundle. I'm trying to understand the mindset of the people buying it so could you answer a few questions?

  1. What was your primary motivator for buying this bundle?
  2. How many of the resources were you planning to buy before the bundle was offered?
  3. How many of the resources do you anticipate actually using?
  4. Do you find a useful relationship between the items in the bundle?

Thanks!

Posts 80
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2012 12:34 PM

I believe that in general, it is Logos who bundles everything together, not the publishers.  

Exhibit 1:

NICNT/OT and WBC: many individual volumes are available in Kindle; but in Logos you must buy the whole set.

Exhibit 2:

Bonhoeffer's new translation: some of the best individual volumes (Discipleship, Letters from Prison, Life together) are available in Kindle and Google book.  However, in Logos, you must buy the whole 14 or so volumes.

--

Also, I think they overcharge for many of their books but use "verse tagging" as their rationale.  Brother's Lawrence "Practice in the presence of God" is a free domain book.  The whole book is only 66 pages with only 2 biblical verse references.  The book is free online; for a paper copy you can get it for $6.  Yet, Logos charge $14 for tagging two verses.

I have no problem if Logos want to make a profit; but please treat your customers with grace and charity.  Many of the customers struggle to make ends meet.  As a  Christian company, are you missional or are you purely revenue driven?  

I love your system.  But in front brothers and sisters who are struggling economically, I feel guilty every time I pull out my Logos.

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