Explanation on the + feature

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Posts 44
Ed Jent | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Nov 18 2009 7:57 AM

I love this feature but could use a little clarification. I had grace pulled up in each of these books and then hit the plus symbol to find similar books or books containing the same word. 

The print list seems the same on the first two but contains different pictures. Why?
The LN contains no print but the books are similar.  Why no print?
The first list has the same print but different pictures than book 2 or 3. Why? 
A few get pictures but no print in Complete Word Study Dictionary or the Louw-Nida. Why?

I guess I am inquisitive this morning. 

 

The other side of these panels looks like this.

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 8:26 AM

Check out the new tab video here:Logos 4 Videos

I believe the Pictures are parallel resources and the list is Similar resources.

Ed Jent:
The print list seems the same on the first two but contains different pictures. Why?
They are searching for two different terms G5487 then G5485.

Ed Jent:
The LN contains no print but the books are similar.  Why no print?
Um.  I don't know.  I'm guessing because there are not similar resources that are not already parallel resources. (?)  I think Chris might know the answer to this one.

 

 

 

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 8:36 AM

It appears the resource you start with influences the result. In your case Strongs Number vs Lowe Nida number. Let me illustrate with Bibles

I have ESV and Lexham Clausal Outlines open to Romans 6:4. I click the "+" sign for both of them.

Starting with the ESV I get:

Notice that the left pictures are English Bibles. Now onto the NT Clausal Outlines:

Notice that the left pictures are all Syntax/UBS 4 Greek texts. The right list is the same: Bibles with Romans 6:4, starting with my prioritized Bibles first.

If Logos can't find a basis to look for other books, it will just give you similar books pictures. For example, this morning I was reading in the introductory material in the Pillar Ephesian commentary. Clicking "+" only gave me 2 pictures Pillar and NIGTC, which happen to be my only two NT commentaries prioritized at this time (I have some work to do there). I then advanced to a section of the commentary dealing with a specific spot in the text (Eph 1:23). And voila...

I hope this helps you wrap your mind around this feature.

Playing with this almost makes me OK with not having PRAs.

Posts 44
Ed Jent | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 11:08 AM

Thomas Black:
Ed Jent:
The print list seems the same on the first two but contains different pictures. Why?
They are searching for two different terms G5487 then G5485.

No, I can see that I misled you with a typo or something but the results were still the same. The results in the window do not change. I am dealing withe Strongs 5485 in each window. 

 

Posts 44
Ed Jent | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 11:22 AM

Kevin Becker:
It appears the resource you start with influences the result. In your case Strongs Number vs Lowe Nida number.

Yes, I understand the resource you start with drives the results. I just want to understand why the two Strongs examples differ and why the Louw-Nida has only pictures. 

Kevin Becker:
Playing with this almost makes me OK with not having PRAs.

I agree which is the reason I want to understand the results. Although with PRA's I can right arrow through them without having them open as a tab. The upside to this method (+) is it gives me a far greater understanding of the resources available and if I can understand the reasoning for the different displays I will be even further along. I would love to have Parallel Resources back though just so I can right arrow through them.

There is three distinct phases to getting the most from Logs or at least I see it this way and this feature really helps with this. 

1) Understanding the software (Logos)
2) Understanding the resources (books).
3) Understanding how the resources (books) interact with the software (Logos). 

I am loving this feature. I appreciate your help and thanks for the screenshots as well. I am playing around with your explanation. I am now also wondering how much prioritization impacts the results if at all. This is good stuff. Thanks again!

 

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 11:25 AM

Ed Jent:
No, I can see that I misled you with a typo or something but the results were still the same. The results in the window do not change. I am dealing withe Strongs 5485 in each window. 
Actually you misled me with the results.  Check your screenshot which I've blown up here.  It shows differing searches:

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Posts 44
Ed Jent | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 11:46 AM

Kevin Becker:
Notice that the left pictures are English Bibles.

OK, I am going to leave this for today but the left hand column is overwhelmingly English but I also have the LSG (French), Afrikaanese,  and the SVV (Dutch) in my list on the left hand side. The list on the right is any Bible that contains Ro 16:23. Well at least somewhat clearer.

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 11:52 AM

Ed Jent:
I also have the LSG (French), Afrikaanese,  and the SVV (Dutch) in my list on the left hand side.

Interesting. Well, I don't have the LSG, Afrikaanese, and SW: hence them not showing up on my screengrabs. At this point I would wager further clarification of the logic behind this display would have to come from one of the Logos designers/coders.

Posts 44
Ed Jent | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 12:01 PM

Thomas Black:
Check your screenshot which I've blown up here.  It shows differing searches:

No, not to split hairs I just don't want to confuse the conversation. G5487 was listed in the DBL in my screenshot. When you change it to G5485 you get the same results with the + sign. 

I am not sure where your screenshot is coming from I had the DBL on the left, not the Complete Word Study Dict. it is on the right. 

I am hoping this helps you figure out the answer <g>.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 12:31 PM

 

Ed Jent:
I am not sure where your screenshot is coming from
It's a blown up version of your very first screenshot in the first post of this thread.  Smile  Back on topic though....

Ed Jent:
I am hoping this helps you figure out the answer <g>.
I'm searching for the exact quote from the beta group that came right out of the programmers fingertips.  I just can't find it yet.... I know it's in here somewhere....

EDIT:

I still can't find that definitive quote I was looking for but...

Here's one from Melissa Snyder

You can use the New Tab feature (click the +) to choose a resource with the same passage from a broader list..
--Serial\Parallel resource associations in L4?



And a telling graphic in a post from from Mark Barnes over in the topic browser thread (http://community.logos.com/forums/t3470.aspx) Look on the fifth page.


Mark Barnes:
The lefthand column (which is what you were referring to) shows similar resources. As you said, it lists them regardless of whether the topic is included. But the right hand column shows only those resources which are relevant, presumably by mysteriously searching the headword, which is something we can't do.

...



Jacob Carpenter indicated that the text side is the Parallel navigation, in other words the other resources with the exact same information / reference

 

Are we having fun yet?

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Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 1:10 PM

WELL FINALLY!  I believe I was looking for Bob Pritchett's post which does at least explain with that little button is supposed to do...

Bob Pritchett:
Parallel Resource Associations are replaced in 4.0 by the New Tab button (and the left/right arrow keyboard shortcut). If you prioritize your resources, the list presented on the right-side of "New Tab" should be your parallels for the active data type. (And right and left arrow cycle through these.) The left side of the "New Tab" suggests related resources to the one you that was open when you clicked the tab.    (Shortcut: Double-clicking to the right of the "+" on the tab strip will automatically open a new tab to the next parallel resource -- a comination of a new tab and the right arrow key.)

And then there's this one:

Bob Pritchett:
The list on the left is resources with similar types and/or metadata to the resource you have open. The list on the right is the prioritized list of other resources
That was from a dialog with Damian McGrath


Whew!  Left side=related resources to the one that was open.   Right side = Parallel resources for that data type.

Now, why is it different?  I believe it's because, even though it wasn't your intention, you were (A) searching two different "G-numbers" and (B) you started from two different resources.  This is demonstrated by the very first picture in your post as stated above.

 

 

EDIT: Bad link removed...

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 1:12 PM

Ed Jent:
Yes, I understand the resource you start with drives the results. I just want to understand why the two Strongs examples differ and why the Louw-Nida has only pictures.
Oh yeah, why did LN only have pics and no list... I'm guessing no other prioritized resource had the same data

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Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 1:17 PM

Thomas Black:
That was from a dialog with Damian McGrath

Thanks for digging up this info. It's helpful.

Unfortunately the link to the dialog doesn't work for me (probably because I was not one of the cool kids in the Beta-testing group)

Posts 3578
steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 1:21 PM

Your link a dialog with shows up as http://community.logos.com/forums/p/1021/8240.aspx

When clicking on it i get Not Found: Resource Not Found. i am not sure why this is happening.

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Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 1:30 PM

Kevin Becker:
Unfortunately the link to the dialog doesn't work for me (probably because I was not one of the cool kids in the Beta-testing group)
Heh.  Yes.  that's an issue.  Oh, well I pasted the relevant part anyway.

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Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 1:43 PM

steveclark:

Your link a dialog with shows up as http://community.logos.com/forums/p/1021/8240.aspx

When clicking on it i get Not Found: Resource Not Found. i am not sure why this is happening.

It's from the Beta forum...

Posts 1646
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 1:44 PM

(As a former beta tester) I can still access this Thomas,

But for those who were not in the beta group, is there anyway to "rescue" this material?

Steve

Regards, SteveF

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 1:48 PM

Stephen Filyer:

(As a former beta tester) I can still access this Thomas,

But for those who were not in the beta group, is there anyway to "rescue" this material?

Good point Steve.  I think I've posted the relevant information to this topic here.  I suppose the next and appropriate step is to shrink this to an easy to read appropriately written  FAQ .

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Posts 44
Ed Jent | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2009 1:59 PM

Thomas Black:
It's a blown up version of your very first screenshot in the first post of this thread.  Smile  Back on topic though....

I see what you copied now. You just didn't include the book titles. However, what I was saying is still true. It makes no difference, the results are the same when you change the number to G5485 in each window. I don't know if that helps or confuses further.

Thomas, MUCH THANKS, for digging up the information. This really helps. Sorry to keep on this so long I am just seeing the extreme value of this feature. I feel like a dog on a bone and I need to chew some more. 

I am so excited. I had no idea that parallel resources were hiding here. When I choose from the list and then use the right/left arrow key I am scrolling between parallel resources. I have had a great day!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Posts 44
Ed Jent | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 24 2009 7:23 AM

I have explored this feature enough to know I don't understand the reasoning behind the display but I do know how I would like for it to look.

First Heading Serial Resources (Displayed with Book Covers) (The Be Series Below would be a good example but it also has additional Titles by the author)

Second Heading (Displayed with Book Covers) — Additional Titles by the Author

Third Heading (Parallel Resources) This would be the column on the right. This would get me resources with the same word or verse.

Fourth Heading (Similar Resources) Below Parallel Resources in the right hand column.  This would get the books that might have the Lemma but not an exact match.

 

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