Convince me: Hermeneia/Continental Commentaries

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 4:25 AM

Unix:

How come I find in the indexes of all of my print commentaries references to 4 Esdras? If the NT cites 4 Esdras, then 4 Esdras is written prior to Jesus ministry in the '30s in the first century.

Non sequitur.  You're trying to compare the time of Jesus' life with 4 Esdras rather than with the writing of the gospels.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 5:01 AM

Where do You suggest 4 Esdras was written? Far away?

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Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 5:13 AM

Unix:

Where do You suggest 4 Esdras was written? Far away?

Long ago and in a galaxy far away. 

Seriously though, that isn't able to be conclusively determined.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 5:23 AM

Well if it was written in the area of Jesus's ministry in AD '30s first century then why are You saying that the book is dependant on the NT Gospels?

George Somsel:
Seriously though, that isn't able to be conclusively determined.

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Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 5:44 AM

Unix:

Well if it was written in the area of Jesus's ministry in AD '30s first century then why are You saying that the book is dependant on the NT Gospels?

George Somsel:
Seriously though, that isn't able to be conclusively determined.

Read again.  That's not what I said.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 2309
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 6:15 AM

Unix:

Watch out regarding the 4 Esdras -volume. As You can see from this page: http://www.logos.com/product/7756/hermeneia-new-testament#026
... it's bundled with the NT. So that likely means that the title regards 4 Esdras 1-12 as a Christianizied book. I oppose that view and suspect those who say that to be the same ones who claim that none of the Gospels can have been written prior to A.D 70 due to that Christ predicts the destruction of the Temple.

You have been very helpful and sparked much good conversation about this set.  I do appreciate your researching the set, but I think you are on the wrong track.  I am not looking to buy the set because I expect to agree with it at every turn.  I already have commentaries with which I usually agree.  On the other hand, I certainly don't want something that has no basis for arguing its various points.  Regardless, I think that the volumes are going to be well researched, and they will present logical arguments in most cases.  I don't expect every volume in the series to be great, but all-in-all the series has a lot of respect and influence among conservatives and liberals.  If I respect the arguments, but disagree with everything that the volumes present (which I'm sure I won't disagree with EVERYTHING), then I think that I will have sharpened my understanding.

It's like teaching.  If you really want to understand a subject, then teach it.  You have to do all that preparation and then be able to present it in such a way that your audience will understand.  This is the same.  In order for me to disagree, I will have to do enough research and understand the issues well enough to present a logical opposing argument (even if only in my mind).  This is the payoff!

 

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 6:25 AM

I agree with MJ on Herm being a more evenly presented commentary (vs AYB). I have both now, and there is nothing like an AYB volume jumping into the discussion with one of the most outlandish (and interesting) proposals. Herm, by contrast, does have a somewhat liberal perspective, but tries to keep inside the bounds of 'respectability'. Or from a practical matter, can more easily be discussed at church (!).

I'm just talking humorously but the Barth volume (AYB) absolutely can not be read for more than maybe 3-4 paragraphs at a time without completely stopping and wondering just how he got to be the progeny of his father!

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 887
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 9:25 AM

I don't have $600 to blow on this, but it might be crazy to pass this up, especially with the non-canonical commentaries.

It looks like the 63 vol. set includes Upgrade (1) http://www.logos.com/product/4704/hermeneia-upgrade but is only missing Upgrade 2 http://www.logos.com/product/17913/hermeneia-upgrade-2

Decisions, decisions....

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 2309
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 9:36 AM

Eric Weiss:

I don't have $600 to blow on this, but it might be crazy to pass this up, especially with the non-canonical commentaries.

It looks like the 63 vol. set includes Upgrade (1) http://www.logos.com/product/4704/hermeneia-upgrade but is only missing Upgrade 2 http://www.logos.com/product/17913/hermeneia-upgrade-2

Decisions, decisions....

I am sitting here thinking about calling customer service...  I was watching an episode of Hoarders: Buried Alive last night, and I actually have OCD, all while refreshing the page on this thread to see what new reasons I could find to buy the set.  It was then that I realized that I am that pitiful guy on the show.  I am hoarding Logos books;  people just can't see them...but they're still there.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 9:51 AM

Joseph Turner:
I am sitting here thinking about calling customer service...  I was watching an episode of Hoarders: Buried Alive last night, and I actually have OCD, all while refreshing the page on this thread to see what new reasons I could find to buy the set.  It was then that I realized that I am that pitiful guy on the show.  I am hoarding Logos books;  people just can't see them...but they're still there.

I don't think customer service deals with personality disorders.  Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 2309
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 10:07 AM

George Somsel:

Joseph Turner:
I am sitting here thinking about calling customer service...  I was watching an episode of Hoarders: Buried Alive last night, and I actually have OCD, all while refreshing the page on this thread to see what new reasons I could find to buy the set.  It was then that I realized that I am that pitiful guy on the show.  I am hoarding Logos books;  people just can't see them...but they're still there.

I don't think customer service deals with personality disorders.  Wink

Big Smile, they do not indeed.  The set was going to add another $40 a month to the $73 a month that I already owe, which is already $73 more than I should be paying, so I am going to fight my compulsivity and decline the offer.  I have it in my head that I want the set, and it is driving me crazy, but I am going to pass. 

 

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 2309
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 10:08 AM

OK, I just bought it.  Looking through it now...

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 2309
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 10:08 AM

Just kidding.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 2040
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 10:21 AM

I think You are being very aware and healthy admitting this.
I can admit that I have a low dosage of epilepsia medication. I haven't had an outbreak and I'm not likely to have, but I did have a 700 Cubic foot truck accident at 72 MPH on slippery road, got just a cratch, my colleague got nothing - which I've told no-one but my girlfriend. Had good insurance, truck was unusable afterwards. Currently I have no insurances, just a fire-proof safe for storing some of the most cherisable books and Bibles. I'm not an insurance -type-of-guy.

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Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 10:25 AM

Ha! Joseph, you're such a pleasure to read. I previously argued to myself I didn't need ACCS for literally 7 years. I ended up buying it. So effectively I missed out on 7 years of great reading, thinking, and learning. I could say I was prudently watching my pennies. Oh yes ...instead getting my nifty car, great new refrigerator and washer/dryer set, and trips to Northern California. Sure.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 10:34 AM

Joseph Turner:
Big Smile, they do not indeed.  The set was going to add another $40 a month to the $73 a month that I already owe, which is already $73 more than I should be paying, so I am going to fight my compulsivity and decline the offer.  I have it in my head that I want the set, and it is driving me crazy, but I am going to pass. 

Been there; done that.  Big Smile  Good for you.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 887
Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 10:42 AM

DMB:

Ha! Joseph, you're such a pleasure to read. I previously argued to myself I didn't need ACCS for literally 7 years. I ended up buying it. So effectively I missed out on 7 years of great reading, thinking, and learning. I could say I was prudently watching my pennies. Oh yes ...instead getting my nifty car, great new refrigerator and washer/dryer set, and trips to Northern California. Sure.

What is "ACCS"?

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

Posts 2040
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 10:47 AM

My washer has broken down ~1½ years ago if I remember correctly (a long time so I don't remember). It's cumbersome to use the common facilities (such as that the only free time is at 1 AM-7AM.) My washer is not old at all, (a burglar broke it). Spare-parts are provided nearby.
I should put a few $100 on my vehicles but I've been procrastinating.

I have high rent because the appartment I live in is luxurious and in a large city -area.

I'll have a school tuition fee and high-school books to pay. I haven't finished high-school; I have about 10% left for minimum graduation only. I don't know yet if the adult high-school studies are going to continue August 2012 or January 2013 - it's a Catholic school which is why I'm suddenly motivated (I was an atheist for a period and have become christian again since 1¼ years. Before that I was a Christian for 16 years). It's been 4 years since I was in school.

It's equally difficult for me to resist the offer. I know I could find better titles for many of the parts of the Bible, but the convenience of one big order is tempting.

Disclosure!
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Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 10:52 AM

Eric Weiss:
What is "ACCS"?

Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture (ACCS) (29 vols.)

 

A patristic commentary done by IVP, currently LOGOS is not selling it directly it is like Bigfoot pops up on Logos servers for sale every once in a while, then it disappears for long periods. But seriously it is sold on CDROM and can be found most places you find books. Very good series, except the Apocrypha volume it covers some of the volume not all of it.

-Dan

Posts 8899
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 11:12 AM

Unix:
Watch out regarding the 4 Esdras -volume. As You can see from this page: http://www.logos.com/product/7756/hermeneia-new-testament#026
... it's bundled with the NT. So that likely means that the title regards 4 Esdras 1-12 as a Christianizied book.

Interesting conclusion, given that it's in the OT bundle as well: Hermeneia: Old Testament (39 vols.). All the volumes that don't easily fit the OT/NT pattern are in both.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

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