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This post has 19 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 115
Pete Holzmann | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Jul 8 2012 6:08 AM

I just went through my first Logos purchase that left me with a bad taste. At the least, the advertising, cart and descriptive material on FSB needs some careful editing and cleanup.

What I thought I was buying is apparently not what I got. And some aspects still are confusing even after having poked around much of the FSB website. Before I explain that and make some suggestions, here was my experience:

The 'droid app home page says:

  • "Get the world's largest study Bible -- free! The FSB works with a variety of translations, including the NIV, ESV, and NKJV... Get it for free with coupon code FREE."

I touched the link, which took me to a web page that says

  • "Enter your coupon code below to get the FSB for free! [Code entry] ["Get it free!" button]

Having purchased many Logos resources before, both paid and free, my impression was: this is another nice free resource.

I clicked the Get It Free button, which took me through a normal (but rebranded) Logos checkout process.

  • The checkout receipt says the item I bought was the FSB, price $0.00

My impression was still: this is another nice free resource. NOTE: If I had stopped here, I would have missed the most important aspect of this purchase! Yet this is where most people would stop, since the typical flow from here is that the purchased resource auto-downloads into all of my various flavors of the Logos system.

Since this is clearly a major new brand, I clicked to learn more and ended up on the Features page on the website.

  • On the right it says: "All translations other than the LEB are sold separately."
  • At the bottom: "Subscribe now and enter your coupon code to get the FSB for free!" [Code entry] [Get it free button]

My impression was initially unchanged: this is a resource that includes the LEB.

But wait a minute, on this page, it suggests this is a "subscription" not a purchase. Since when are non-periodical Bibles, etc bought as a subscription? Has Logos come up with a way to "sell" me resources that time out? I just purchased the resource without once being told it is time limited. Nor was I told what the time limit is.

Now I want to know more...

I went to the Home page.

  • Near the top is the same offer: "Enter your coupon code to get the Faithlife Study Bible for free! [Code entry] [Button: "Get it free"]

OK, maybe I was confused. Not a subscription after all...???

I looked around to learn more. Finally...

On the main FSB website help section is an FAQ that says:

  • An FSB purchase is a subscription normally costing $29.95/year. Free subscriptions run until early 2014.
  • "The FSB comes with numerous modern English translations of the Bible, with more available for individual purchase...Currently you can study with the ESV, NIV, LEB, KJV, NASB, NKJV, and the NRSV. Translations other than the LEB are sold separately."

Ummm... this is a bit crazy. Only after completing my purchase, and diligently searching the main website, do I discover that this really is a timed subscription costing $2.50 a month.

And now there's further confusion. Until now I thought the FSB comes with LEB free, and others for purchase. But on the FAQ it says:

  • "The FSB comes with numerous modern English translations of the Bible, with more available for individual purchase."

Now I don't know anymore what is true. What are the "numerous" translations that it comes with, apart from the "more available" for purchase?

QUESTIONS

1) Does FSB come with free translations other than LEB or not? If not, please fix the FAQ.

2) Does the FSB download into the Logos Android app? I don't see it in my library.

3) How do I find out the end date of time-limited resource purchases?

4) Logos already has my credit card info. How do I unsubscribe? How do I stop this FSB virus from sucking funds from my account? Sorry, but that's my general feeling about any online "FREE FREE FREE... but then pay $$$$ later" offer.

5) What is the payment policy once the subscription ends? Am I going to be charged annually in advance? Monthly? How do I get a refund of unused time?

OBSERVATION

It is WAY too hard to discover that this purchase is time-limited. Like most consumers, I am very cautious about signing up for things that begin for free but then start auto-charging me.

RECOMMENDATIONS

1) Change the "Get it free!" buttons to "Subscribe free!"

2) Highlight everywhere that this is a subscription not a purchase

3) The checkout item should say this is a subscription and include the end date.

4) There should be a variety of simple and obvious ways to see the current end date of any time-limited resource purchase.

5) State clearly (if true) that we are in a beta period, that no charges will be made without further approval, that subscription management is functionality still in development, including the ability to unsubscribe.

I'm praying for y'all! This is an exciting new capability and I look forward to it being implemented well. In the meantime, I sure hope some of these things can be fixed before the news about FSB gets out there too far.

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 8 2012 7:07 AM

Some excellent recommendations!

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 8 2012 8:46 AM

Yep ... against my better judgment, when Bob asked for input, I signed up. I didn't like it (that's not meant to criticize; everyone has varying needs), so I 'hid' it (how else do you get rid of it?).

Now I have to worry about it the next 20 months to see if I'm still 'subscribed' or not.

I don't know why Logos has so much trouble with simple communication. They go to church. The grocery store. Fix their collective cars (and bicycles). How difficult can it be?

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 5619
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 8 2012 12:34 PM

Pete Holzmann:

1) Does FSB come with free translations other than LEB or not? If not, please fix the FAQ.

2) Does the FSB download into the Logos Android app? I don't see it in my library.

3) How do I find out the end date of time-limited resource purchases?

4) Logos already has my credit card info. How do I unsubscribe? How do I stop this FSB virus from sucking funds from my account? Sorry, but that's my general feeling about any online "FREE FREE FREE... but then pay $$ later" offer.

5) What is the payment policy once the subscription ends? Am I going to be charged annually in advance? Monthly? How do I get a refund of unused time?

You succinctly described my concerns -- what exactly does happen in 2014 when it's not free anymore?

 

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 980
LogosEmployee
Dave Dunkin (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 9 2012 9:08 PM

Thank you for your suggestions. We have clarified the FAQ page regarding what resources are included with the FSB subscription. I'm getting clarification on what happens when the subscription expires.

Posts 64
Ken Hicks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2012 6:08 AM

Thanks for your response Dave. Hopefully Logos will include an "opt out" process (clearly communicated to existing users) prior to the paid launch IF the current plan is to begin auto-charging on the previously specified date.

Posts 980
LogosEmployee
Dave Dunkin (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2012 12:19 PM

I have confirmed that if you ordered the FSB for free with a coupon, it will not be automatically renewed when the license expires and you will not be charged.

Posts 1216
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2012 12:27 PM

Dave Dunkin:

I have confirmed that if you ordered the FSB for free with a coupon, it will not be automatically renewed when the license expires and you will not be charged.

Great, so I can expect in 2014 the FSB will be removed from my system when it expires?

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2012 1:58 PM

Dave Dunkin:

I have confirmed that if you ordered the FSB for free with a coupon, it will not be automatically renewed when the license expires and you will not be charged.

Thanks for getting back to us with this information.

Posts 115
Pete Holzmann | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2012 3:57 PM

Thanks, Dave. Hopefully they can follow through on the other aspects before further promotion takes place. It is important that buyers be aware of the nature of this purchase, since it is entirely different from any other resource sold by Logos.

I'm assuming that's always been the plan, since obviously there's no facility to manage subscriptions yet! :) :)

Posts 1717
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 14 2012 8:37 PM

I just want to add the clarification that we would never automatically charge anyone without being completely clear about it.

If you use the coupon code for free access through March 2014, your access will expire at the end of this free period. You will not be charged.

(New users who come to the FaithlifeBible.com site and use the coupon code "FREE" will not even need to enter a credit card -- always a good sign you won't be automatically charged! :-) )

We are working on adding subscription management capabilities to your Logos account page; we already have subscriptions to Bible Study Magazine, now FSB, and soon we'll have other subscription products online, too.

Posts 271
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 14 2012 10:07 PM

Bob Pritchett:

soon we'll have other subscription products online, too.

A strange (and possibly 'bad business') decision considering all the negative comments from keen and committed Logos-ers about the subscription model for products in http://community.logos.com/forums/t/51646.aspx?PageIndex=5 (Your input needed thread).

For the planned products will there be an option to pay once as well as subscribe? I, for one, just don't do subscription!

Thanks

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 15 2012 6:29 AM

James Hudson:
A strange (and possibly 'bad business') decision considering all the negative comments from keen and committed Logos-ers about the subscription model for products
Yes I totally agree.

Posts 124
Scot Wright | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 15 2012 10:32 AM

Thank you for all the good information concerning this! One question is still not clear to me. If you do not subscribe, is this resource taken out of your library automatically? Do you get to keep the content up tp 2014 and then not get further updates? Or is the entire resource content removed at that time?

Posts 1
Jennifer Hines | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2012 10:17 AM

The software is really great and free for almost 2 years. Why are you complaining?

Posts 2
Tammy Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 3 2013 3:25 AM

The Faith Life Bible was part of the base package I just bought; will I be charged in 2014 the subscription price or will it be removed?

Posts 11642
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 3 2013 3:27 AM

Welcome, Tammy!

Tammy Taylor:

The Faith Life Bible was part of the base package I just bought; will I be charged in 2014 the subscription price or will it be removed?

Neither. Since you bought it, you have it.

That's what I understand from the respective discussions.

Mick

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 2
Tammy Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 3 2013 6:42 PM

Thanks Mick

Posts 3
Gerald L Bartlett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 15 2013 7:14 PM

(New users who come to the FaithlifeBible.com site and use the coupon code "FREE" will not even need to enter a credit card -- always a good sign you won't be automatically charged! :-) )

Posted by Bob Prichett from Logos, July 14, 2012. Bob,  In just the past few days (early January, 2013), I "ordered" FSB using a "FREE" link in an e-mail about a Reat-through-the-Bible-in-a-year" program available through FSB.  The order went through just fine without requiring credit card info.  However, when I followed directions to download my "purchase" I was directed into the iTunes Store, where I was required to "review" my account, including entry of credit card information.  When I balked at that the process stopped.  So CREDIT CARDS ARE STILL REQUIRED FOR FREE FAITHLIFE STUDY BIBLE!!  1/15/2013

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 17 2013 3:30 PM

Gerald L Bartlett:

(New users who come to the FaithlifeBible.com site and use the coupon code "FREE" will not even need to enter a credit card -- always a good sign you won't be automatically charged! :-) )

Posted by Bob Prichett from Logos, July 14, 2012. Bob,  In just the past few days (early January, 2013), I "ordered" FSB using a "FREE" link in an e-mail about a Reat-through-the-Bible-in-a-year" program available through FSB.  The order went through just fine without requiring credit card info.  However, when I followed directions to download my "purchase" I was directed into the iTunes Store, where I was required to "review" my account, including entry of credit card information.  When I balked at that the process stopped.  So CREDIT CARDS ARE STILL REQUIRED FOR FREE FAITHLIFE STUDY BIBLE!!  1/15/2013

Hi Gerald,

Although Logos has no control over whether or not Apple requires a credit card number, it turns out that iTunes accounts do not in fact require a Credit Card number - please see the attached screenshot.  Just select "None" as the payment type.

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