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Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 6:59 AM

It is a good point, and I am sure we will all get used to new technology as it comes along.  BUT, while in the USA everyone may have an internet connection at all times (which I am sure one will have to PAY for), it will not be true in all countries of the world.  Will it be possible to use Libronix on an airplane?  In the so called jungles of Africa? Even in ALL rural places in America? 

I can see a day coming when the whole world will be wireless and on internet in every corner.  But that day is not today and is not even in the near future.  It is still hard to access internet from a park, or the car and even in many homes today.  It might be helpful to survey WHERE people use Libronix.  I use it in private homes when I travel, in airports where I would have to pay to get online, in parks or in the car when I am traveling...in Poland where I frequently travel and have no internet connnection...

 

Posts 2736
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 8:08 AM

That is exactly also my point. When I study and I have Internet connection, I google some stuff, I look things in Logos etc. When I am offline or traveling, the first thing I do is I turn to Logos because it is a reservoir of resources and books. Always something to read. I do even my daily devotions in Logos.

The thing I would really appreciate is to have Logos (at least a limited version of it) available via ebook reader, iPhone etc to read in places I am not able to come up with notebook. If that would be the purpose of the cloud Logos, OK. But I want to keep my solid, good local library on my harddisk.

Somebody suggested to have Logos on external disk, well that would be great but than you need computer anyway (yours, somebody's) and also I think it would be a problem with the protection of licence for Logos. So better option IMHO is more portable clone of my Logos on reader, smartphone etc.

Bohuslav

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 8:33 AM

Bohuslav Wojnar:

Somebody suggested to have Logos on external disk, well that would be great but than you need computer anyway (yours, somebody's) and also I think it would be a problem with the protection of licence for Logos. So better option IMHO is more portable clone of my Logos on reader, smartphone etc.

It might be nice to be able to take your resources with you to use on any computer which happens to be available, but I wonder if the person considering this thought about the fact that the program itself needs to be installed on the computer he is considering using.  You can't simply "plug and play."  Then there is the matter of all of your individual settings such as any bookmarks you may have, your keylinks, etc.  This is all do-able, but you would need to spend some time setting up the machine before using it.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 9:13 AM

George

I was the one who suggested a plug and play option and you can use my name :).  I know Libronix in its current form would need to be installed on a computer.  But my suggestion was to revamp Libronix so it would not need to be installed (isn't that what would happen if there was an online version of Libronix?  It would not be installed locally).  The question is whether it is possible to make the program 'plug and playable'.  You say it is not possible.  Why not?  Let Logos make that decision.  There are devices out there that are plug and playable. 

Secondly, there would possible be a concern with security.  I think today there are ways to protect the security of an external devices. I mean, if people want a kindle setup...well in a way that is an external device....

I personally think the future lies not just in online programs, but also in external pocket devices which has your information, programs you want off line and everything such as Libronix which you can put in your wallet or shirt pocket and use on ANY computer. I think this way because computers are fast becoming hubs.  It is not wise to put personal documents on a computer which can crash.  it is best to have everything on a small device that can be carried around and used on ANY computer

Mark

 

 

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 9:41 AM

There will always be times when we are not connected to the net, and we will need to run some sort of client software.  Still, I believe Peter is correct.  Cloud is coming because of items like iphone and Kindle.

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 9:45 AM

Let's try that again.  Sorry for the previous.  It seems that it didn't display the section of text I intended to quote so I tried the "Back" button.  It didn't work since the blank message was still posted.  Drat, drat, double drat !

MarkSwaim:
I was the one who suggested a plug and play option and you can use my name :).  I know Libronix in its current form would need to be installed on a computer.  But my suggestion was to revamp Libronix so it would not need to be installed (isn't that what would happen if there was an online version of Libronix?  It would not be installed locally). 

It wasn't that I was hesitant to use your name but rather that I didn't recall offhand who said it and was too lazy to look it up. 

I don't think an online version would be strictly "plug and play."  I think it would probably be necessary to download and install a base program (Libronix).  It would be the resources which would be "floating, floating among the floating clouds (or was that "flowers"?)" [Bernstein's "Trouble in Tahiti" if you're not familiar with it).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 9:50 AM

Understood.

Well then, I really dont get the whole idea of online Libronix.  I mean, if you have to install something on your computer anyway, then you could not access it anywhere in the world without installing something on someone's computer to access it.  Why not just have all resources on an external harddrive?  Accomplishes the same thing.

 

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 9 2009 10:02 AM

Don't take my word for it that you would need to install something on the computer first since that may not be the case.  Perhaps you'd simply need to open the browser, go to the site and log in.  Ask Bob, he'll know.  He knows everything about Logos Devil

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 165
Wayne | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 11 2009 11:51 AM

I think there is a growing audience who would appreciate being able to access their Logos materials from online. If I were Logos, I would begin moving quickly towards this area. Those who just want Bibles have plenty of options. But a growing number would love to be able to have access to their Logos library while on the road via the internet. I see netbooks advertised for less than $200. They aren't much, but I would rather haul a little netbook and leave the bigger notebook at home.  It may not be adequate  for a power search, but would work for background reading, etc. I am sure the younger generation will be be a bigger users of web based computing.

Posts 2774
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 11 2009 12:35 PM

Personally, I like Logos and my books on my computer.  However, there are a couple options that I think make sense.

1. An "internet" or "Network" version of Logos that churches could purchase and have available for staff and even for a church l"library" where teenagers could come in and study/research.

2. An internet option that would consist of a monthly membership fee whereby people could access all the resources.  This might be a good option for some Seminary students who are not sure about the need for a "long term" investment, but need stuff for specific classes and coursework. 

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 11 2009 1:29 PM

Joe Miller:

Personally, I like Logos and my books on my computer.  However, there are a couple options that I think make sense.

1. An "internet" or "Network" version of Logos that churches could purchase and have available for staff and even for a church l"library" where teenagers could come in and study/research.

2. An internet option that would consist of a monthly membership fee whereby people could access all the resources.  This might be a good option for some Seminary students who are not sure about the need for a "long term" investment, but need stuff for specific classes and coursework. 

I think there is a site license type of arrangement which is primarily used by seminaries which functions in that manner, but it is on the local computer, not in the clouds.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 11 2009 6:24 PM

WayneWPenner:

I think there is a growing audience who would appreciate being able to access their Logos materials from online. If I were Logos, I would begin moving quickly towards this area. Those who just want Bibles have plenty of options. But a growing number would love to be able to have access to their Logos library while on the road via the internet. I see netbooks advertised for less than $200. They aren't much, but I would rather haul a little netbook and leave the bigger notebook at home.  It may not be adequate  for a power search, but would work for background reading, etc. I am sure the younger generation will be be a bigger users of web based computing.

Yes, I undestand this.  So here would be my preferences:

1.  Be able to purchase books as we do today, downloadable to our machines

2.  But at the same time, we have the ability to access our books on the web, anywhere in the world on any machine

 

Mark

Posts 24930
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 11 2009 8:50 PM

MarkSwaim:
2.  But at the same time, we have the ability to access our books on the web, anywhere in the world on any machine

Just direct your Resource Path into the clouds Big Smile

Angel But Logos cannot move quickly, for the present time at least! Unless Reader functionality is all that is required.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 12 2009 5:17 AM

No, I dont want to be misunderstood.  I want to direct my resource path to my computer because I want all my resources offline on my machine or on a local harddrive.

But at the same time, if Logos feels it is time and there is a market for an online library, why not allow that option to also be able to access your resources online?

For the person who ONLY wants his resources online, there is a fee

For the person who purchases books for OFFLINE use could for example for a SMALL fee (since he already purchased the stuff offline) or for NO fee, be able to access his personal library (not evereything that Logos owns, just his personal library) on line.

There would of course with any online system be a problem with other companies such as Galaxy or PBB etc which logos does not own.  How would they be accessible on any online library system unless a deal was struck with Logos?

 

Mark

Posts 2718
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 12 2009 10:52 AM

I suppose I'm in a bit of a minority, but I would LOVE a web based solution over a client if it had access to the resources I can now use with my locally installed software.  I could see this as being quite a profitable business too for you.

1.  You could do a basic site that is free as you are doing now.

2. You could have a fee based system that allows you to access what you own already.

3. You could do a premium based system that allows access to the whole library.  I would pay for this third so long as it was reasonable.  I would be tickled to death to have this.  I think that so long as I could keep things like notes, bookmarks/favorites, highlights in the web client, I would ditch most of my other software and run Logos online alone 90 percent of the time and have a locally installed small footprint for the few times when I don't have web access.

 

There is another solution that would be a hybrid of both.  Install the client software on your computer that is mosty internet based.  But then the programs you use regularly could be cached locally so that they would be available offline when you want them.  You could even go into the Library manager and select which would be cached locally.  But then have the rest online.  This way, if I only do devotions on a small netbook or only read a few things on it I could have a small footprint.  But on my office PC   I could have the larger library that I use most often.  When I'm looking for a book to read I could  then read it on my ipod client or winmo client version.  That would be a huge benefit.  You could have a small program that does the basics or login via a browser.

Posts 24930
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 13 2009 4:22 PM

MarkSwaim:
No, I dont want to be misunderstood.

You weren't! Hence the smilies.

It's all possible, but not any time soon!

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 13 2009 6:45 PM

I guess for me the biggest thing is the “Matrix” factor. While I love the internet, and try to make full use of it, I still want to be able to turn it off, and work without it at times.

Also, there is the “ownership” factor. With Libronix on my machine, and the resources, I have license to, on my hard drive, I feel like I own something. In a thin client environment, I'm bothered by the fact that I'm just being allowed to use something that belongs to someone else. While it could be argued that this attitude is not Biblical, it nevertheless is a human frailty that one must live with. I can never see myself paying money to have access to a resource that I can't “hold” so-to-speak. After all even our Lord entrusts us with personal stewardship over parts of his creation.

 

 

In Christ,

Paul

 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 271
Don | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 2:09 PM

One other thing to consider. If I have a license and resource on my computer, and Logos loses the right to sell the resource, I still have it. (Barclay commentaries, Interpretation, etc.) If it is all web-based with an annual subscription, if Logos loses the rights, I lose access.

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 2:41 PM

PaulGolder:
...Also, there is the “ownership” factor. With Libronix on my machine, and the resources, I have license to, on my hard drive, I feel like I own something. In a thin client environment, I'm bothered by the fact that I'm just being allowed to use something that belongs to someone else.

 

I agree Paul.  This is part of what keeps me from using some other cloud services.  If (shudder) Logos closes it's doors and my resources are in the clouds than I lose everything I've paid for.  If on the other hand, Logos shuts down I still have the resources and the last Libronix program on my computer.

 

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Posts 2736
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 14 2009 9:38 PM

That is why I would take the "cloud" option only as an alternative to the installed books on my computer. To access my library by other tools like ebook readers and iPhone etc. Also I would use it for temporary borrowing some book for a fee, if the collection is too expensive for me. Logos would function as an academic library to me. It would enrich many of us, I think.

Bohuslav

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