Bob,
I can see why you're the CEO. A very well put post. You almost had me convinced up until this:
Bob Pritchett:I think of our user account like a cell phone. You can buy one for everyone in your family, or share one in a couple, or even for the whole family. If you share it -- and if you pass your phone to the kids in the backseat to play games while you drive, you'll find your wallpaper image changed and may have speed dial settings for other kids, and silly text messages in your message history.
A computer loaded with Microsoft Windows 7 is not a cell phone! Nor is Logos 4 a cell phone. Nor, does one, when purchasing a computer, or software for Windows (and I believe a Macintosh), think of what they're purchasing even remotely in terms resembling a cell phone. This approach to software installation essentially means that while Logos has embraced the future in utilizing WPF, it has simultaneously taken a giant step backwards to the past when computers did not allow for multiple user accounts, each with their own per-user settings nicely sandboxed. I won't go on any more about this here because I've already covered in detail how onerous to a family and wacky this paradigm is in other posts.
Matt
Specs: Windows 7 x64 Quad Xeon 2.83 GHz x2 16GB RAM Nvidia 285 GTX 1GB VRAM Logos 4.1 Platinum, SR-3, indexed
Matt:it has simultaneously taken a giant step backwards to the past when computers did not allow for multiple user accounts, each with their own per-user settings nicely sandboxed.
TCBlack-Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It |
Thomas Black:That's a step backwards? I don't think so. Having everything "sandboxed" on my computers keeps my kids from killing my computer and my documents, and my logos and my... you should get the point by now.
Thomas, I think you missed Matt's point. He was saying the single user focus of Logos is a step backwards.
EDIT: I'm not saying that I agree with Matt's point entirely.
Prov. 15:23
How to ask for Help
Simplified EULA for Logos Version 5:
"Treat your Logos license like your toothbrush. Now go share it with as many people...."
...
Matthew C Jones:"Treat your Logos license like your toothbrush. Now go share it with as many people...."
lol
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
Bob Pritchett: I suppose we could build sophisticated master/dependent account management with separate document and setting management into the software. But it would introduce lots of complexity and, I fear, tempt many people to use it not for their kids, but rather to share accounts between independent adults. And since the "99% case" of our users are individuals who use it alone, we'd add a lot of complexity for little value, and possibly introduce lots of headaches. (What if you kept separate sub-accounts yourself, to manage different settings on different laptops, but then wanted to move a document from one account to another. Now we need UI, revision tracking, data merging, and lots more overhead.) I think of our user account like a cell phone.
I suppose we could build sophisticated master/dependent account management with separate document and setting management into the software. But it would introduce lots of complexity and, I fear, tempt many people to use it not for their kids, but rather to share accounts between independent adults. And since the "99% case" of our users are individuals who use it alone, we'd add a lot of complexity for little value, and possibly introduce lots of headaches. (What if you kept separate sub-accounts yourself, to manage different settings on different laptops, but then wanted to move a document from one account to another. Now we need UI, revision tracking, data merging, and lots more overhead.)
I think of our user account like a cell phone.
There are comments elsewhere in regard to getting L4 to work in different user accounts as independent installations, but the central issue is the download burden with multiple installations and/or re-installations because of hardware failure. It would be a simple matter for the installer to request a local resource path and have only to download what is missing or needs an update. I would think the advantages to both user and Logos are quite obvious, as well as benefiting the load on the internet as a whole!
Dave===
Windows PC, Android phone
I'm amazed at the number of unofficial Logos spokespersons, armchair lawyers, armchair DRM/copyright law experts, and judges of men's hearts that have popped up in this thread.
Bryan Smith:I'm amazed at the number
Here are the actors (in order of first appearance) :
Ariyl, Michael Birney, *Bradley Grainger, Damian McGrath, Matt, Matthew C Jones, Dave Hooton, *Dan Pritchett, Philip Spitzer, Chris Elford, MikeWaterhouse, Edward Hyndman, *George Allakhverdyan, Jeremiah Daniel Morris, Larry Schmid, Richard DeRuiter, MJ. Smith, Jon Rumble, *Bob Pritchett, Thomas Black, Kevin Becker, Bryan Smith.
The 4 names with an * by them are actual official Logos people. I count at least 4 more that are IT professionals or software engineers. At least 5 more (probably 10) are priests or pastors who spend their time instructing others about sin, morality & ethics.There are many details unknown about everyone listed. I can't swing a dead cat at Thanksgiving without hitting a judge, lawyer, cop or preacher in the room.
If the watchman doesn't cry out his warning, the watchman bears the guilt. When a man declares he is above the law he should expect response.
Wasn't that the point of the thread? The op asked a question, and a bunch of forum members answered. If he wanted advise from a lawyer or copyright expert he wouldn't of posted on this forum now would he? He had options, he could of called Logos, he could of called a lawyer, he could of not posted anything. His post meant he wanted responses, he got them.
And, just for fun .... aren't you judging men's hearts with your comments?
And, (questioning my sanity and pride) why do I respond to this drivel? (Is drivel a harsh word?)
Bryan Smith:I'm amazed at the number of unofficial Logos spokespersons, armchair lawyers, armchair DRM/copyright law experts, and judges of men's hearts that have popped up in this thread.
Sometimes I can't help but grab the hornets nest and shake it. And yes, I should probably be counted in the last category, that's a good point.
Matt: All of this because Logos decided to install their program files into the user's AppData folder, a practice which I have never witnessed (nor had I witnessed it when 'Documents and Settings\Application Data' ruled the roost). I'm not attempting to be unfair to the engineers at Logos, because from what I've witnessed in their software and their developer blogs, they have some very good people. However, 'getting around security' issues is not a valid reason to break such a well-established paradigm and it almost makes me wonder if they had a non-Windows archictect in charge of their installer.
All of this because Logos decided to install their program files into the user's AppData folder, a practice which I have never witnessed (nor had I witnessed it when 'Documents and Settings\Application Data' ruled the roost). I'm not attempting to be unfair to the engineers at Logos, because from what I've witnessed in their software and their developer blogs, they have some very good people. However, 'getting around security' issues is not a valid reason to break such a well-established paradigm and it almost makes me wonder if they had a non-Windows archictect in charge of their installer.
Hi Matt,
This installation practice is certainly not non-standard (though it is uncommon). Please see the "Requirements for the Windows Vista Logo Program for Software" (http://download.microsoft.com/download/8/e/4/8e4c929d-679a-4238-8c21-2dcc8ed1f35c/Windows%20Vista%20Software%20Logo%20Spec%201.1.doc), section 2.3, "Install to Correct Folders": "Applications should be installed to Program Files or the user’s AppData folder by default." While Program Files is listed first, the user's AppData folder is also an acceptable default. I believe our installation is fully within the Vista (and Windows 7) logo guidelines for installation (with the possible exception of not supporting a command-line installation; I'd have to check on that).
Bradley
Bradley Grainger:This installation practice is certainly not non-standard (though it is uncommon)
There you go again, those reinforced double negatives clarified by another negative
Bradley Grainger: "Applications should be installed to Program Files or the user’s AppData folder by default." While Program Files is listed first, the user's AppData folder is also an acceptable default.
Bradley, thanks for weighing in on this. If you peruse the MS whitepaper Namespace Usage Guidelines for the Windows Vista File System, you'll see this section which spells out how the directories in question should be used:
Windows Vista provides specific locations in the file system to store programs and software components, application data that is shared between all users on a computer, and application data that is specific to a user. These locations are, respectively:
"C:\Program Files\" is the storage location for programs and software components, not AppData. AppData is used for per-user data and that is what it is inteneded for. Installing an entire application lock, stock and barrel into AppData is decidedly non-standard and why the vast majority of software companies do *not* install here because they know that they will be deviating from well-established practice. When a software company makes a decision to follow this highly irregular installation path, there are only two reasons for it:
There's a wonderful quip I picked up some years back from a movie called The Outlaw Josey Wales (I'll paraphrase here, because the original is somewhat more vulgar):
"Don't urinate on my back and tell me it's rainin'."
If Logos took path 2 above, fine, that's their choice, but please don't try to convince me that it's either a) standard or b) for my benefit.
Thanks for your feedback,
Bryan Smith: I'm amazed at the number of unofficial Logos spokespersons, armchair lawyers, armchair DRM/copyright law experts, and judges of men's hearts that have popped up in this thread.
Hmm, while I consider myself neither an expert in DRM nor copyright law, I do have a fairly large investment in digital media of many kinds. That and being involved in All Things Geek on a day-to-day basis means I am aware of and have a stake in such trends. And has been pointed out already, this is a discussion forum and I have merely added my opinions (none of which promote violating the EULA.)
Larry
AKA WillyBurger
There are many email clients which provides synchronization for eg hotmail
ronald eddy: There are many email clients which provides synchronization for eg hotmail
Ronald
You seem to be replying to a post on page 1 (out of 5) of an old thread, so you need to Quote the text to which you are responding ie select the Quote button (or select the parts that apply and then the Quote button ).
Perhaps this question/comment is in the wrong area... but I was looking for advice. My wife has her own copy of Logos, albeit, a reduced install that has just the things she wants. I have a rather complete install based on my needs. We have two separate email accounts and passwords, two seperate serial codes when we registered (obviously). We don't share books and don't want to (across the two installs, I mean). However, sometimes the computer gets confused. Her account grabs my information or my account grabs her... then I need to call in and Logos customer services sets it right again.
My question: If anyone else has two separate Logos accounts for two separate users on one computer, is there a way to force a Log in screen to change user log-in or is there a way to set things back to normal if they the two accounts get confused?
Thanks.
JJ
Does it help if you each have your own account and login separately on your operating system?
JJ Miller: My wife has her own copy of Logos, albeit, a reduced install that has just the things she wants. I have a rather complete install based on my needs. We have two separate email accounts and passwords, two seperate serial codes when we registered (obviously). We don't share books and don't want to (across the two installs, I mean). However, sometimes the computer gets confused. Her account grabs my information or my account grabs her... then I need to call in and Logos customer services sets it right again.
This is very intriguing to me. I can not answer your question because my wife has her small Logos (Bible Study package) on her own netbook while my large Logos (Portfolio) resides on my laptop. We have a static ip address that frequently confuses our ISP when we are both online at the same time . But we have never had Logos sync-ing get mixed up like that. I'm betting it has something to do with Windows 7. You may be ahead getting your wife her own computer.
JJ Miller:My question: If anyone else has two separate Logos accounts for two separate users on one computer, is there a way to force a Log in screen to change user log-in or is there a way to set things back to normal if they the two accounts get confused?
I'm not certain how the accounts get confused, so exactly what information is being "grabbed"? Is it possible that you have logged into each other's Logos account by accident eg. you started L4 and used L4 but it was in your wife's computer account?
If you start L4 whilst holding down the Ctrl key you will get a Sign-in dialog box which will show you the current Logos user id and you can change it. But that won't necessarily solve the problem and it could definitely create another one, so just note the Id that is displayed and report back here.