The Jewish Annotated New Testament-Amy-Jill Levine/Marc Brettler

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 6:20 AM

Now NB.Mick ... that's too easy.  Out here in Arizona, we have our Navajos, who DO think considerably different from 'us' (that's a complement to them!). Now of course, that's not really accurate, since you have your western Navajo and then your Eastern who think differently. But are we talking 'now' or in the 50s? They say 'we Navajo' (actually Dineh'). And we say 'the Navajo'. Obviously we're not the same and we both know it.

I have a Navajo interlinear which 'I' thought would be quite useful for younger Navajos to hold on to the Navajo language. The pastor nicely explained it was eastern Navajo and wouldn't work. Critical distinction.  He did know George though (hmmm).

Now, the reason a 'jewish' perspective can be useful, is not because of a common jewish perspective. No one is that naive (I hope). Rather, it speaks to the hidden assumptions of the non-jewish writers which are not obvious until you read the 'jewish' ones.

As regards the two potential resources here, the Jewish Study Bible is the most 'unlikely' to be a middle-of-the-road jewish perspective if indeed such existed. The writer is quite comfortable climbing out on a limb and expressing the obvious. The Annotated NT is considerably different, representing a smoothed summation of centuries of thought, with useful references to various jewish writings along the way.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 6:24 AM

DMB:
Now, the reason a 'jewish' perspective can be useful, is not because of a common jewish perspective. No one is that naive (I hope).

Maybe I'm just not good enough in hoping...

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 7:39 AM

NB.Mick:
  • there is no one "Jewish perspective". Jews themselves apply the saying "three Jews four opinions" which is otherwise often used for lawyers. There are multiple Jewish perspectives in the plural, some of which may have been shared by some Jews in the first centuries. 
  • at the time when Jesus lived, there were multiple schools of ideas, like the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Essenes... We know the different Jewish perspectives they had from some surviving manuscripts (Qumran) , descriptions in the Gospels, Josephus...  but in most cases not in an exhaustive manner. Only the Pharisees as a group survived the destruction of Jerusalem.
  • Jewish perspectives evolved over the hundreds of years between Jesus' time and today. Especially the situation that Christianity, which (as observed from the outside) started as a Jewish sect, competed with the Jews for the same group of people and later on overtook the whole Roman empire and started to marginalize the Jews, led to changes in the "Jewish perspective" - basically it seems that some held/hold it for a valid exegetical principle that if Christians read Meaning A in the OT, Jewish reading may be anything but A (however unlikely). I can to a certain extent understand how such things come about, but I don't agree with this.
  • Jewish perspectives we read today have been shaped by Medieval scholasticism, Enlightenment, Modernism etc and the discussions about embracing these ways of thinking or defending against them. Thus they to a certain extent are far removed from the perspective of near-eastern population in the first century.
  • Especially the question of Messianic aspects in Jewish exegesis is highly debated, but it seems that some contemporary Jews rather downplay this perspective, but there may be no conclusive view on what "everyone who lived with Jesus" held in this regard.

 

Ultimately, I don't disagree with you.  The funny thing is that you don't seem to assume Christianity is the same.  What I meant was that the Jewish Study Bible takes into account the historical Jewish perspective, by which I mean the positions taken by Jewish writings throughout the ages, while considering the original historical milieu.  We read commentaries from Christian commentators which present a "conservative" or "liberal" position, but those designations clearly don't necessarily give us a real idea as to the complete positions of those authors, or the "conservative" or "liberal" positions held throughout history.  Therefore a Chrisitian work doesn't necessarily present "one" view on Christianity either, but that doesn't stop commentators from writing.  Look at the book of Revelation for instance.

I will point out that I did state that AJ Levine made a comment concerning the freedom with which Jews debate theological issues, which should have underpinned all of my further posts.  Any claim that Jewish interpretation is not unified has to also apply to certain aspects of Christian interpretation.  AJ Levine is however a first rate Jewish/Jesus scholar, and I trust that she handles the information in a responsible manner.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 12:59 PM

Joseph Turner:
Ultimately, I don't disagree with you. 
Thanks. I was hoping for that.

Joseph Turner:
The funny thing is that you don't seem to assume Christianity is the same. 
But I do!

Joseph Turner:
a Chrisitian work doesn't necessarily present "one" view on Christianity either, but that doesn't stop commentators from writing. Look at the book of Revelation for instance.

Sure. But I'd believe no-one who would claim this is THE Christian perspective that everyone shares with regards to the revelation.

Let me try to give an example. Let's assume someone suggests the "Mennonite study bible" or something like that. Or the Mennonite annotated Confessio Augustana, to keep the times synchronous. I say: bring them on!

He then writes "Ultimately, the Mennonite perspective, which is the perspective that everyone who lived with the reformers would have had, is important for the history of interpretation" I would say:

 "Ultimately, the Mennonite perspective, ... is important for the history of interpretation" - yes!

but objections to: "The Mennonite perspective, which is the perspective that everyone who lived with the reformers would have had" - we know for a fact that people at these times had no unified perspective. Also, various reformers had diverse perspectives on many thing and disagreed widely. Menno Simmons and his group were one of these, but their perspectives were only part of the spectrum. And someone compiling this study notes today will not be able to go back behind the history of anabaptist persecution by the other reformers. I hope this example helps.

Joseph Turner:
Any claim that Jewish interpretation is not unified has to also apply to certain aspects of Christian interpretation.  AJ Levine is however a first rate Jewish/Jesus scholar, and I trust that she handles the information in a responsible manner.

I think we are in agreement here. Actually I wondered about the relatively small number of annotations the editors felt necessary and I support the conclusions of some of the thematic articles I could look into at Amazon (which seem to cover roughly a hundred pages and might in themselves be worthwile to buy the book). This really is a resource I'd like to have in Logos.

 

 

 

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Genghis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 21 2012 4:05 AM

Quite right.  Which is why one has to be very careful in their research of first century texts.  Its easy to succumb to the temptation to over simplify things.  Generalisations are a dead giveaway every time.

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Genghis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 21 2012 4:06 AM

Hear, hear.

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Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 8 2012 6:04 AM

I skimmed through the Jewish Annotated New Testament, and while the notes look interesting and informative, because of the run-together-one-right-after-the-other layout as well as all the Scriptural and DSS and other references, this would be GREAT to work with in Logos but tedious to use in print form. So I do hope Logos gets the rights to this product.

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

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Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 1 2013 12:04 PM

Joseph Turner:

I think the notes from this work would provide a great perspective:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Jewish-Annotated-New-Testament/dp/0195297709/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0

Yes This was suggested a while back, I would like to renew the suggestion.

Blessings,
Floyd

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 1 2013 10:12 PM

Ben:
While we're at it, let's get their Jewish Study Bible in as well.

Logos.com has a pre-publication under development => http://www.logos.com/product/30983/the-jewish-study-bible

Thankful for Complete Jewish Bible => http://www.logos.com/product/6645/complete-jewish-bible

+1 Yes for Jewish Annotated New Testament.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 2 2013 5:14 AM

Ben:

+1 Yes for Jewish Annotated New Testament.

Keep Smiling Smile

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 2 2013 1:13 PM

Floyd Johnson:

Joseph Turner:

Yes This was suggested a while back, I would like to renew the suggestion.

The chances have certainly increased tremendously, now that Logos and the OUP seem back on track again.Yes

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 5:13 AM

 

Ben:

While we're at it, let's get their Jewish Study Bible in as well.

(I've been requesting both of these for some time...)

Ben

Now that the Jewish Study Bible is in Pre-Pub, maybe the Jewish Annotated New Testament will follow closely behind!

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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Adam Rao | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 1 2013 6:39 AM

Joseph Turner:

Ben:

While we're at it, let's get their Jewish Study Bible in as well.

(I've been requesting both of these for some time...)

Ben

Now that the Jewish Study Bible is in Pre-Pub, maybe the Jewish Annotated New Testament will follow closely behind!

Here's hoping! It's an outstanding resource.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 16 2020 5:17 PM

This resource needs more attention so that Faithlife understands we really, really want this.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Roger Dittmar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 16 2020 5:56 PM

MJ. Smith:
This resource needs more attention so that Faithlife understands we really, really want this.

YesYes

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 16 2020 7:28 PM

Yes

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 16 2020 7:30 PM

Yes

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 16 2020 7:32 PM

Yes

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

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