Logos Is Too Expensive

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This post has 387 Replies | 12 Followers

Posts 502
Randall Hartman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 2:43 AM

You tell'em George.  Yep.  We could all just go back to Egypt!

Posts 10517
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 5:01 AM

Joel Reed:
I appreciate all of the comments from everybody, even though most of them seemed somewhat bias.

I am biased against people who have never run a business yet who feel qualified to lecture successful business people as to how they should conduct business. Most people have no concept of what it takes to build a successful business, yet they constantly lecture other as to how it should be done. My wife and I said more that one that if we had known ahead of time what it was going to cost, we would never have joined our son in his new business venture. Ten years later, I am pleased we were ignorant enough to jump into the waters.

I said all that to say this, I truly admire the Pritchetts and the way they conduct Logos, and I am truly thankful to God for Logos and the $15k+ I have spent on what I consider fairly priced merchandise. the resources that I consider overpriced for the value I would derive from the, I leave for others.

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 5:20 AM

Joel Reed:

Please tell me if I'm way off base here ...

Ok; you're way off base. Logos charges an entirely reasonable sum for the high quality product they produce, which simply does not exist elsewhere on the market. Sure you can find a few of the books available free online, but that's not what Logos is charging money for. They are charging money for the extremely highly developed information architecture of their product which makes it literally unique in the market. That's what I want; I don't want to fool around with websites.

Additionally, Logos provides comprehensively indexed and integrated electronic editions of books which would otherwise cost me two to three times as much to purchase (in hardcopy), which are not available anywhere else anywhere near as cheaply, and which would be utterly unwieldy in hardcopy format. The price they charge for these resources is laughably cheap as far as I am concerned.

I share your dismay at the high pricing of the other products to which you refer, but I don't see that as remotely analogous to what Logos charges and provides. In addition, Logos is a reliable source of excellent jobs for US citizens, which should not be overlooked.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

Posts 401
Sam West | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 5:43 AM

Joel Reed:

I have been researching some of the 'Bible Software' packages that are found on the market, and I have to say that Logos appears to be the best available. That being said it is also the most expensive software available! I am also disappointed to see Logos watering down their products by offering nearly ten different packages, especially when the first four software packages are so useless. (I.E. Christian Home, Bible Study Library, Leaders Library, and Original Languages) In my opinion the first package that should be offered is the 'Scholars Library' ...  I simply can't see any reason why Logos would be so stingy with their products. Is it just me or would it make a lot more sense for them to release their software as 'Bronze, Silver, and Gold'. (With the option to buy the portfolio) I looked at the comparison chart, and the first four packages are so striped down they don't even seem to be worth the already outrageous price they are listed at. Come on people, you can download a variety of far more complex software like 'Libre Office' completely free, but we can't seem to find reasonably priced Bible software to help us grow in our faith? 

I'm sorry to say that something is simply not right with this world. I understand the fact that you have to make a profit in order to keep your feet on the ground, but charging over $600 for a beginners package seems a bit out of line. 

I seriously hope you folks will reconsider your pricing strategy, because I am sure you would sell a lot more copies if you weren't asking so much money. It is actually quite easy to find most of the books you offer in the software on eBook websites for free, since most of the books you carry are no longer copy-written.  (E.g. The Bibles, Luther, Bunyan, etc) It bothers me to read the section on your website that says 'Over $10,000 in Print!' when that is simply not true. If you have to renegotiate with some of the Authors, please do so, because this is simply ridiculous.

If you have never used Logos 4 how can you judge it. Granted it is expenses but let me tell you there is "no" and i will repeat no bible software on this earth that will even come close to Logos 4 with all its functions. i have been studying the bible for over 40 years and have had several bible programs form the beginning of computers and bible software.

Sam West

 

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 5:45 AM

I am copying this post of mine from another thread, and posting it here because it's equally relevant.

Here are some JSNTS publications from Sheffield, and their retail print prices.

* Mark's Gospel--Prior or Posterior?: A Reappraisal of the Phenomenon of Order: US$215

* Historiography and Hermeneutics in Jesus Studies: An Examination of the Work of John Dominic Crossan and Ben F. Meyer: US$180

* Jerusalem and the Early Jesus Movement: The Q Community's Attitude toward the Temple: US$180

* The Unity of the Farewell Discourse: The Literary Integrity of John 13:31-16:33: US$180

* The Finger of God and Pneumatology in Luke-Acts: US$170

* Apocalypticism, Anti-Semitism and the Historical Jesus: Subtexts in Criticism: US$145

We're up to US$1,070 already, with just six books. Let's look at the Logos alternative; Library of NT Studies: JSNTS on the Gospels and Acts (16 vols.). For just US$600 you not only receive all of those six books but another ten academic titles from JSNTS.

I bought that collection on pre-pub for US$302.95. Overpriced? I think not.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

Posts 401
Sam West | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 5:49 AM

Jack Caviness:

Joel Reed:
I appreciate all of the comments from everybody, even though most of them seemed somewhat bias.

I am biased against people who have never run a business yet who feel qualified to lecture successful business people as to how they should conduct business. Most people have no concept of what it takes to build a successful business, yet they constantly lecture other as to how it should be done. My wife and I said more that one that if we had known ahead of time what it was going to cost, we would never have joined our son in his new business venture. Ten years later, I am pleased we were ignorant enough to jump into the waters.

I said all that to say this, I truly admire the Pritchetts and the way they conduct Logos, and I am truly thankful to God for Logos and the $15k+ I have spent on what I consider fairly priced merchandise. the resources that I consider overpriced for the value I would derive from the, I leave for others.

Well said Brother Jack.  The Pritchetts didn't  hold a gun to our heads and made us buy their product.

Sam West

 

Posts 1966
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 6:03 AM

Logos does have some expensive resources, but you have to look at the bigger picture. 

You would need to look at a base package and figure up the price for the paper/kindle/etc... books that you would actually use and then compare with the Logos package.  I did this a few minutes ago for the first two packages, and they came out to be not worth it.  Once I got to the leader's library, it came out closer.  When I first started purchasing Logos software, I started out with Gold, which has a much better cost/benefit ratio for me.  The commentaries alone make it worth it.

A lot of the resources ARE overpriced, but they usually end up on sale at some point in time.  I could not afford to buy the Hermeneia commentaries (not that $1200 is necessarily overpriced), but then they went on sale for 50%, and I jumped on that price.  The cost of the volumes that I wanted in paper from Amazon easily amounted to $600, so the other books are just extra.  The payment plans also make purchases easier. 

I look at Logos as Christians running a business.  It is much like Chick-fil-et.  They have a great product, and the owners are Christian, but their prices are still pretty high.  I can either eat there or somewhere else.  I choose to eat there because I like their food.  Logos just happens to be selling Bible study software. 

The linking between the books in my library also makes them much more valuable than paper/kindle books.

Try a package that you can afford and then return it in the 30 day period if you don't like it.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 6:08 AM

Joseph Turner:
A lot of the resources ARE overpriced, but they usually end up on sale at some point in time.  I could not afford to buy the Hermeneia commentaries (not that $1200 is necessarily overpriced), but then they went on sale for 50%, and I jumped on that price.  The cost of the volumes that I wanted easily amounted to $600, so the other books are just extra.  The payment plans also make purchases easier.

That sale was when I picked up Hermeneia Logos was selling the Hermeneia series and the Continental Commentary series for US$600. The usual price for the Continental Commentary series was US$600 alone. To pay US$600 for both collections was just ridiculously cheap.

I don't purchase devotional literature and pastoral commentaries from Logos, I typically focus on the scholarly commentary and academic titles, print editions of which typically cost well over US$100 each. Maybe that's why I find Logos consistently cheap; not just affordable, but actually cheap.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

Posts 1966
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 6:10 AM

Jonathan Burke:

[That sale was when I picked up Hermeneia Logos was selling the Hermeneia series and the Continental Commentary series for US$600. The usual price for the Continental Commentary series was US$600 alone. To pay US$600 for both collections was just ridiculously cheap.

I don't purchase devotional literature and pastoral commentaries from Logos, I typically focus on the scholarly commentary and academic titles, print editions of which typically cost well over US$100 each. Maybe that's why I find Logos consistently cheap; not just affordable, but actually cheap.

Yes to everything you said!

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 10108
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 7:16 AM

These two threads are so funny. The minute they got posted, it was 'blood in the water'.  Can NOT let that pass.

At the sewing store I don't recall anyone getting excited if someone thought the Berninas were overpriced ... might discuss the pros/cons. At the Home Depot I don't recall anyone advocating increased prices, since absent the Home Depot, you'd pay more. Well, duh.

I've yet to meet the pastor who built a room on his house for his library.

When someone goes to Walmart and finds some high prices (now and then), everyones' ears listen up; don't want to pay too much!

I do recall an earlier forum thread questioning the ICC pricing especially on century-old writings. I don't recall the sharks explaining how that made sense.

Who's kidding here. Logos has the reputation. Go to church and try to get someone to spend hundreds of dollars on mostly public domain or older works. Good luck on that.

 


Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 7:42 AM

DMB:

I do recall an earlier forum thread questioning the ICC pricing especially on century-old writings. I don't recall the sharks explaining how that made sense.

Who's kidding here. Logos has the reputation. Go to church and try to get someone to spend hundreds of dollars on mostly public domain or older works. Good luck on that.

Authors in the ICC series such as SR Driver, John Skinner and George Buchanan Gray were regarded as scholars while a near contemporary Charles H Spurgeon was not.  The scholarly status of authors must be considered.  While the ICC volumes  are old, and in many ways outdated, they do represent the scholarly views of the time.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 8:05 AM

DMB:
When someone goes to Walmart and finds some high prices (now and then), everyones' ears listen up; don't want to pay too much!

Logos isn't Wallmart, and the most expensive products are nothing analogous to Wallmart products.

DMB:
Who's kidding here. Logos has the reputation. Go to church and try to get someone to spend hundreds of dollars on mostly public domain or older works. Good luck on that.

It has nothing to do with reputation, and the vast majority of Logos publications (especially the most expensive items), are not public domain or older work. They are cutting edge professional commentary which are typically only affordable in their original print editions, by universities and seminary libraries, because they typically weigh in at over US$100 per volume. Through Logos, we can typically pick them up at less than 25% of that price.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 8:28 AM

Jonathan Burke:

It has nothing to do with reputation, and the vast majority of Logos publications (especially the most expensive items), are not public domain or older work. They are cutting edge professional commentary which are typically only affordable in their original print editions, by universities and seminary libraries, because they typically weigh in at over US$100 per volume. Through Logos, we can typically pick them up at less than 25% of that price.

There is a volume in Logos Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus: Hellenistic Histories and the Date of the Pentateuch that I don't much agree with, but it sells for $170 separately.  It also comes in a bundle of 10 works (Including works by such important scholars as Clines, Whybry, Coats and Rentdorff) for $300. Amazon sell this one book for $170.  I got them on prepub for $110.  Are you saying that is too expensive?  I think Jonathan and I agree here.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 8:37 AM

George Somsel:
I think Jonathan and I agree here.

We certainly do.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

Posts 1928
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 9:00 AM

George Somsel:
The whole congregation of the Israelites complained against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness

Yes George. I think if I recall your own words, Egypt would be Logos 3 right? Wink

I am a 10+ year customer of Logos who has readily praised the good on many occasions. I have also, without being personal or vicious, respectfully highlighted and documented issues we have had for Logos 4 Mac. The Logos Mac forum has plenty of traffic which speaks for itself.

So I don't retract anything, nor do I believe it is in the category of complaining. It can be, in my view, a lot of money to spend particularly if you are not informed about the bugs and regressions we have experienced on the Mac product on a regular basis.

History is what it is. I have hope and believe that someone will fix it eventually, but in humility I assert we aren't there yet.

Posts 10108
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 9:05 AM

Oh Jonathan ... not to worry. Take out the Jag for a spin and feast on my solid 5-figures investment in Logos. 'Pricey' is not my problem. I'm just not so naive to think 'I'm saving money!'


Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 9:07 AM

DMB:
Oh Jonathan ... not to worry. Take out the Jag for a spin and feast on my solid 5-figures investment in Logos. 'Pricey' is not my problem. I'm just not so naive to think 'I'm saving money!'

If you're not saving money, you're doing it wrong. I have spent over US$20,000 on Logos, and I have saved at least three times that amount.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 9:08 AM

Donovan R. Palmer:
Yes George. I think if I recall your own words, Egypt would be Logos 3 right? Wink

No, I was really thinking of print works or other computer programs.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1928
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 9:16 AM

George Somsel:
No, I was really thinking of print works or other computer programs.

My mistake then! Embarrassed

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 9:23 AM

Jonathan Burke:
If you're not saving money, you're doing it wrong. I have spent over US$20,000 on Logos, and I have saved at least three times that amount.

You've spent more than I.  I'm at just under $18,000, but that doesn't include what I bought before Dec, 2003 (and I have no idea how much that might be).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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