Logos Is Too Expensive

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This post has 387 Replies | 12 Followers

Posts 14
Joel Reed | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 9:29 AM

Jack Caviness:

I am biased against people who have never run a business yet who feel qualified to lecture successful business people as to how they should conduct business. Most people have no concept of what it takes to build a successful business, yet they constantly lecture other as to how it should be done. My wife and I said more that one that if we had known ahead of time what it was going to cost, we would never have joined our son in his new business venture. Ten years later, I am pleased we were ignorant enough to jump into the waters.

I hate to burst your bubble there buddy, but I actually do run my own business. http://novelstudies.org

You might also note that our website charges well below average prices for our products .... because we like to give people a fair deal. 

That being said, the reason why I never responded to your previous comment was because I didn't think you comments were relevant. (Sorry) I don't have to run a business to make a suggestion on how I believe a business should be run. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has made a suggestion to a business.

I feel I should also mention that I am a writer, and had two of my books recently self-published on Lulu for $5 each (Well below average) even though they can still buy them as a hard-copy at a higher cost, because I want people to hear the Gospel not to make more money. http://www.lulu.com/shop/search.ep?type=&keyWords=joel+michel+reed&sitesearch=lulu.com&q=&x=0&y=0  



Ok; you're way off base. Logos charges an entirely reasonable sum for the high quality product they produce, which simply does not exist elsewhere on the market. Sure you can find a few of the books available free online, but that's not what Logos is charging money for. They are charging money for the extremely highly developed information architecture of their product which makes it literally unique in the market. That's what I want; I don't want to fool around with websites.



As I mentioned in my previous posts, I am not interested in hearing about the 'Value' I would be getting for my money, I was making the point that Logos is too expensive in general. (I said Logos was the best on the market in the very first sentence of my very first post) For all I care Logos could wake me up every morning with a cup of coffee and a plate of bacon and it would still be too expensive ... well, maybe if could get me bacon I would buy it.

Posts 10338
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 10:22 AM

Jonathan ... I think you just nailed the point.


Posts 14
Joel Reed | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 1:11 PM

I tried to respond to a few of the comments, but I think Logos decided not to post my last reply.

Hmm ... seems a bit odd to me ... Zip it!

Posts 10603
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 1:27 PM

Joel Reed:

I tried to respond to a few of the comments, but I think Logos decided not to post my last reply.
Hmm ... seems a bit odd to me ... Zip it!

The forum software sometimes has a hiccup. Try your posts again. 

Posts 165
Wayne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 2:53 PM

Due to moving back from overseas, I had to leave my print library of 800 volumes behind last year. I started buying Logos seven years ago. I now have a library that is easily four times bigger and better for probably less that half of what I paid for my print library. That value is without updating prices to current prices of books. It is possible to get a decent library for not much money if you buy with discipline. Right now I am teaching Church History and books in the packages are proving to be a big help. I probably need more self-discipline in the books I buy from Logos than I have shown recently.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 5:12 PM

Joel Reed:
I hate to burst your bubble there buddy, but I actually do run my own business. http://novelstudies.org

You might also note that our website charges well below average prices for our products .... because we like to give people a fair deal. 

It appears that you run your "business" more as a hobby than as an actual business.  I would remind you that Logos is a true business with employees and an overhead which requires them to make a profit.  It is not a hobby.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1384
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 5:56 PM

"I don't purchase devotional literature and pastoral commentaries from Logos, I typically focus on the scholarly commentary and academic titles, print editions of which typically cost well over US$100 each. Maybe that's why I find Logos consistently cheap; not just affordable, but actually cheap."

Ditto. I don't even own a package. I DO own Context of Scripture, JPS Torah Commentary, ANET, Anchor Bible Dictionary, Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible, etc. All of these I got a great deal on, less than or equal to paper BUT they take up no space (important in my Brooklyn apt) and have much greater functionality than some illegal pdf file, which I am willing to pay for.

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 14
Joel Reed | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 8:21 PM

George Somsel:

Joel Reed:
I hate to burst your bubble there buddy, but I actually do run my own business. http://novelstudies.org

You might also note that our website charges well below average prices for our products .... because we like to give people a fair deal. 

It appears that you run your "business" more as a hobby than as an actual business.  I would remind you that Logos is a true business with employees and an overhead which requires them to make a profit.  It is not a hobby.



How can you say I run my "business" as a hobby when you have no idea what my income or costs actually are. 

That was an incredibly rude and condescending comment if I ever heard one, and I would appreciate it if you put a bit of thought into your responses before you open your mouth. I happen to be very proud of my business, regardless of how you feel it should be classified.

 

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 8:46 PM

Joel Reed:
I happen to be very proud of my business, regardless of how you feel it should be classified.

Hobby

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 14
Joel Reed | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 10:00 PM

Jerk

Posts 5253
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 10:23 PM

George Somsel:

Joel Reed:
I happen to be very proud of my business, regardless of how you feel it should be classified.

Hobby

Even Logos was once a part time thing by a couple of Microsoft employees. 

Posts 571
Martin Grainger Dean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 11:13 PM
George Somsel:
Joel Reed:
I happen to be very proud of my business, regardless of how you feel it should be classified.
Hobby
What a "Christian attitude", George. Martin.
Posts 990
Tom Reynolds | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 12:31 AM

I think we need to distinguish between Logos being expensive and books being expensive. Logos can control the pricing of public domain books which is why we can have such inexpensive community pricing deals. You have to feel bad for newcomers to Logos though because they have to wait for a Christmas sale or other special in order to affordably add those public domain works. Logos doesn't control the pricing of titles such as the JSNT series. Those type of books, which are generally published dissertations, were traditionally only intended to be published in small quantities for research libraries. Those libraries get generous discounts and certainly don't pay full retail thus retail pricing has gone through the roof as costs have gone up. There is much discussion in academic circles about the cost of such books but little can currently be done. In many cases Logos can offer good deals on these books because they are reaching a larger audience. Unfortunately those deals disappear after a title leaves prepub and thus later comers are again penalized.

I must say I really don't like the marketing spin on how much we've saved. You can't say you've spent $20,000 and saved $40,000 unless you have $60,000 to spend on books. Really what it boils down to is that you've spent $20,000 on your library and if someone comes along now they'd never be able to afford to buy-in because the price is beyond anyone's book budget. I think this is what gets people upset. This and that many books are only available bundled with others that people don't want.

My $0.02

Posts 156
Andrew Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 1:05 AM

Joel Reed:
Logos appears to be the best available. That being said it is also the most expensive software available!

Nothing wrong with being the best and the most expensive. Smile

Posts 1998
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 5:05 AM

Joel Reed:

As I mentioned in my previous posts, I am not interested in hearing about the 'Value' I would be getting for my money, I was making the point that Logos is too expensive in general. (I said Logos was the best on the market in the very first sentence of my very first post) For all I care Logos could wake me up every morning with a cup of coffee and a plate of bacon and it would still be too expensive ... well, maybe if could get me bacon I would buy it.

You say that they are too expensive, but they could still possibly be a great value.  That doesn't really make sense.  If they are too expensive then they are not a good value.

If you want a book that you can get free somewhere else, then you can use the Logos Personal Book Builder feature and put the book into Logos, which will even tag it for you, so that argument is really not valid.

Many of the books that are still under copyright may be expensive due to the publishers' pricing, and not Logos.

Again, everything is not priced to my liking, so I don't buy those products.  I wish I could have everything Logos offers, but I can't.  Logos is not a missionary organization that gives away software.  They are a software company that happens to sell Bible software.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 6:12 AM

Tom Reynolds:
I must say I really don't like the marketing spin on how much we've saved. You can't say you've spent $20,000 and saved $40,000 unless you have $60,000 to spend on books.

I don't think it is marketing spin. The books I have purchased through Logos are the kind of books i used to purchase in print, at vastly higher prices. I don't have to spend huge amounts of money on these scholarly works anymore, I save every time I purchase them in Logos instead of purchasing them in print the way I used to.

Additionally, because I am saving so much money through Logos, I can purchase a massively larger number of these books than I was able to when I was limited to purchasing them in print. That's a saving whichever way you look at it.

Tom Reynolds:
Really what it boils down to is that you've spent $20,000 on your library and if someone comes along now they'd never be able to afford to buy-in because the price is beyond anyone's book budget.

I don't think that's true. I quoted the retail price of a JSNTS collection of sixteen books in Logos earlier, and it works out to be 40% less than the price of just six of those books if you were to purchase them in print. That's not the pre-pub price of that collection (the pre-pub price was half as much again), it's the current retail price. And you can even get it on a twelve month purchase plan; US$50 a month.

I seriously doubt that the books Logos sells today are 'beyond anyone's book budget' as you suggest. The company seems to be selling them perfectly well, which means people are buying them.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

Posts 371
James Chandler | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 6:19 AM

Greetings Joel,

I'm not sure I agree with your assesment.  Quickverse charges $305 for there base package and around $1600 for the top package.  And you are paying for the software.  Logos software is free and downloadable and has some resources with it. 

Joel Reed:
It is actually quite easy to find most of the books you offer in the software on eBook websites for free, since most of the books you carry are no longer copy-written.

That's not completely correct.  The word "most" actually negates this statement.  The NIV, NASB, NLT, and NET bibles are still copyrighted, as are many of the commentaries.  Many of the Bible Dictionaries and concordances are still copy righted.   The Opening Up Commentary series is 30 volumes and at the least $7 a volume which would be roughly 210, that's one third of the entire package.  The Bible Expostition is at best $70 and you are already at half of the cost.  Collins Thematic Thesaraus is $75.  Holman Bible Atlas lists for roughly $30, but can be got for $18.   You get the idea and I haven't even touched the surface.

If you're looking for a less expensive alternative, might I suggest e-sword.  It's free, but has a suggested donation of $15, I have it on my computer but rarely use it.

In Him,

Jim

Running on ASUS Windows 10 I7 24 gig of ram, 1 Terabyte drive.

Philippians 2:3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

Posts 10338
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 6:32 AM

Yesterday, I thought these 2 threads were definitely good. But just 'overnight' this one has become a true 'keeper'.  And it IS true; I know very few Christians that don't have 'money'. I guess there are some somewhere. Who knows?


Posts 1134
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 6:46 AM

James Chandler:

 

If you're looking for a less expensive alternative, might I suggest e-sword.  It's free, but has a suggested donation of $15, I have it on my computer but rarely use it.

In Him,

Jim

I use e-sword often for quick look ups. Plus, they have an active user community who have made a lot of modules from public domain such as the ICC NT, all of Lange's commentary, several of Nicoll's, Bengal, Horae Homiletica, Neighbour, Exell, Coke, Pulpit Commentary, Heinrich Meyer, Carroll, Drummelow, and more. I do not mind using another platform since they are free.

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 6:49 AM

DMB:
And it IS true; I know very few Christians that don't have 'money'. I guess there are some somewhere. Who knows?

I have friends who regularly spend on recreational vehicles, holidays, and skis, double the money I typically spend on Logos in a year. Seriously, skis?

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

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