Logos Is Too Expensive

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Posts 1825
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2012 10:43 PM

From somebody who did own 3 versions of QV before buying Logos 8 years ago. Logos is a MUCH more powerful program. QV was a Bible Software program but Logos is a Digital Library and the Greek and Hebrew tools are FAR superior. These two programs are not even comparable! If you bought QV AND BibleWorks then you might have a basis for comparing what is included in Logos.

I like to think of it as varying quality of tools. I do minor household repairs so I buy my wrenches at a discount store and the quality is fine for my purpose. If I made my living with my wrenches I would expect to buy a higher quality tool from one of those trucks that markets to mechanics (Snap-on or Matco). I don't fault those who sell or buy higher quality wrenches--they just are not a wise stewardship for my abilities. However, my abilities to wrestle with theology and original languages are such that I demand better tools and the value that I derive from using logos is a good stewardship of my time and finances.

Instead of giving too much credence to somebody who has admittingly never owned EITHER Logos or QV - it may be more prudent to consider the opinions of those who own one or both.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 401
Sam West | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2012 1:49 AM

I had quick verse also for years also and can tell you that there is no comparison. You can purchase the  scholars package for about $300 more and get a tool with features that no other bible program offers in one package.

Posts 370
James Chandler | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2012 5:25 AM

I also still have two copies of QV and neither one of them are loaded.  The newer versions became less user friendly and much more expensive, without any added value.

In Him,

Jim

Running on ASUS Windows 10 I7 24 gig of ram, 1 Terabyte drive.

Philippians 2:3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

Posts 533
Jonathan Burke | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2012 5:45 AM

Joel Reed:
I can't help but feel like much of the discussion here has been wasted, because most of the users on this forum have been long time buyers of Logos software and will obviously defend their decision to buy the program. I don't mean to be rude, but my family runs on a single income, and my wife stays at home to school our little boy

Joel, I don't think it's that. My wife and I are on a single income as well, though we don't have children (unfortunately). The simple fact is that for quite a few of us (including myself), the pricing of Logos resources, and the convenience of the massive information architecture in which they arrive, is overwhelmingly cheaper and more useful than the truly ridiculous prices we used to pay for academic works in print.

Joel Reed:
I think one of my biggest beefs with Logos is the fact that they are taking up such a large share of the Christian Software market when it could instead be filled with something much better, like an Open Source Bible Program.

No one is going to publish academic works from Brill, Continuum, and Sheffield, in an open source Bible program. The licensing fees for these academic titles would destroy them.

Joel Reed:
Perhaps my point is getting a bit off topic, but I always thought Christians were supposed to gather together to make our community of believers stronger by working together towards a goal.

I see Logos doing that admirably.

Joel Reed:
Unfortunately all I see is a secular company monopolizing on the Christian buyers market.

Logos is popular because it's incredibly more affordable than most of the alternatives people have. However, Logos has no power to enforce its market presence; it doesn't have a monopoly, it just has a very well earned dominant market share.

Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"

Posts 483
Gary Butner, Th.D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2012 8:49 AM

In the early nineties, when I was single and had money, I purchased and evaluated all of the Bible software programs for the PC. It was apparent even back then that Logos was winning the race to create the best Bible software and with the most resources. Furthermore, the Pritchetts put theIr reputation on the line by identifying with their product. How many of the Pritchetts can you name? Tell me one other product you are aware of that you can name as many of the owners. That tells me they have been listening to their customers. 

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2012 9:21 AM

Milford Charles Murray:
My wife and I bought our Pastor the first Logos package a couple of years ago, then helped him (several times!) upgrade extensively into a much more powerful Logos with lots of bells and whistles.  It will take years yet until he can complete what he wants and needs......  But, it's in the works  .....        *smile*

An often forgotten point as it seems everyone wants to start with one of the big packages, it's taken me 16 years to build a Logos collection of 6,680 resources I started with Level 2 in 1996 and progressed via Pastor's, Silver and Gold to Platinum always adding other items as I went. There have been a few big ticket items along the way but most of my transactions were less than £30 and my average spend has been £12 per week.

The same principle applies to my collection of guitars, amps and music related equipment that has taken me years to acquire people see it and want it all now but it would simply cost too much as a one off purchase... I'd be broke and single if I spent that much money in one go...

I know that if I was new to Logos today I could not afford to start at where I am today, I just don't have the cash but, based on my experience, I'd start the journey so that I can eventually have the library I aspire to.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 370
James Chandler | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2012 9:52 AM

Graham Owen:
An often forgotten point as it seems everyone wants to start with one of the big packages,

I completely agree with this, I started with scholar's and added and upgraded since then giving me a nice bible study package.

Personally I think whether an item is too expensive or not is a subjective thing.  Joel feels it's to expensive for him.  That's fine.  I do not.  I enjoy what I have and love it for diving into the scriptures.

In Him,

Jim

Running on ASUS Windows 10 I7 24 gig of ram, 1 Terabyte drive.

Philippians 2:3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2012 10:06 AM

James Chandler:
Personally I think whether an item is too expensive or not is a subjective thing.  Joel feels it's to expensive for him.  That's fine.

I agree that this is a very personal issue it just seems to me that the expectations of some new users are simply unrealistic. I looked at some of the alternatives, at a point in time when Logos 4 was frustrating me like crazy, and concluded that to rebuild what I need out of what I have (if that makes sense) would require a similar investment with the only real difference being what I call the filler material. I also concluded that Open Source was not an option for the range of materials I want/need.

I would personally be more inclined to agree if Joel had said that the Logos entry point for serious/prospective scholars is too high! Personally, my development has mapped quite well to the Logos structure and the 'lighter' materials suited me at the beginning. I think that there could be room for a Scholars Essentials with some core Language Tools, a good set of commentaries and very little 'fluff' at the low end but that is a slightly different debate.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 8967
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2012 10:32 AM

Graham Owen:
An often forgotten point as it seems everyone wants to start with one of the big packages, it's taken me 16 years to build a Logos collection of 6,680 resources

This is the same error young adults are tormented with. A young man leaves home, gets a job and marries his bride. He then tries to acquire in 6 months everything he sees in his Father's and Father-in-Law's estates. He never pauses to consider they have been building their wealth for thirty years or more.

Graham Owen:
The same principle applies to my collection of guitars, amps and music related equipment that has taken me years to acquire people see it and want it all now but it would simply cost too much as a one off purchase... I'd be broke and single if I spent that much money in one go...

This is true. The key is to convince yourself (and your wife) that the parables of the Pearl of Great Price or the Hidden Treasure is a good approach to de-cluttering your life and focusing on Bible study. I sold off 26 of my guitars and put the money into Logos resources. I have 4 guitars left and find they suffice. I also sold my classic cars, my home studio, and other "obsessions." Employing this principle of "selling all that I had" to purchase Logos resources made it possible to build an immense library in 4 years instead of 16. 

My wife is quite different. She started with the Bible Study Library. I upgraded her to Scholar's and she wanted to downgrade back to her original package. 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2012 11:00 AM

Super Tramp:
I sold off 26 of my guitars and put the money into Logos resources.

I am in awe!!! Now to go completely off topic...

How did you decide what to keep?

As my collection grew I did a little pruning and decided I wanted versatility and needed to avoid duplicate sounds, I ended up at 6:

My work horse is a Takamine EN10c, well worn and over used but I love it.

My favourite is a Yamaha AEX1500 designed in conjunction with Martin Taylor, warm Jazz plus a Piezo.

For Nylon its a Yamaha APX10NA, great for handling the solos in a musically conservative Church setting. 

Proper rock is a Yamaha MSG Deluxe, twin humbuckers, coil taps, whammy bar, heavy like a Les Paul, shaped like a mini 335. Probably my most versatile guitar, I can almost get a Tele sound out of it at least one that would fool a non guitarist!

When I'm not quite sure what I need its a Yamaha SA800, I love semis, this is the last of my Yamaha's when I was 18 I said I would never own a Yamaha guitar because they were too clinical and sterile, wisdom came with age plus I think they got some better designers.

Finally the single coil stuff is covered by a Fender Squire Tele from 82, classic butterscotch and part of the second batch built in Japan for Fender using genuine US hardware. Its awesome, did not cost a lot and is the only guitar I have that is worth a lot more than I paid for it. Had to rewire it as it had the capacitor fitted for really woolly sounds. Main reason for having a Tele is that I have never found a Strat that could tempt my credit card out of my wallet. I came close 3 times but so far have resisted. Never say never though.

The acid test has always been can Barbara, my wife, hear the difference when I switch guitar. She is very musical, a great singer and objective. This collection pasts the test...

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 217
Danny Baskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2012 1:32 PM

Super Tramp:
I sold off 26 of my guitars and put the money into Logos resources.

Now THAT is commitment!

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2012 2:26 PM

Graham Owen:
How did you decide what to keep?

Most were easy to let go of. My autographed guitars (QUEEN, Genesis, Supertramp) brought lots of $ for Logos and I never played them anyway. Other guitars were sold to famous people who play them better than I  only regret selling the Gibson ES135, a Morris jazz hollow-body and a Morris neck-thru solid body. My "keepers" are:

  1. Morris 12-string
  2. Morris 6-string cutaway finger-picking Martin strings
  3. Fender Squire Bullet w/custom neck & Burns Tri-Sonic pups
  4. Morris Les Paul custom boutique over-wound pups potted in beeswax, switches in/out of phase, treble boosted


I have also parted with tools, cars, home studio equip and lots of books. I have been very happy with the Logos resources I got in the "trades." Big Smile

If a fellow has nothing to sell off he can eat ramen noodles for a year and swing some of the food budget to Logos. There are no fat kids in my house.Devil

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 11
Joel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2012 5:33 PM

Thanks for all the great replies people ... regardless of how I might still feel I actually learned quite a lot by some of your responses.

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2012 6:12 PM

Joel:

Thanks for all the great replies people ... regardless of how I might still feel I actually learned quite a lot by some of your responses.

Peace to you, Joel!                                 God Bless you and your Loved ones richly!                       Thank you for coming back to this thread to bid all a friendly and truly gentle and humble (in a Christian sense!) Fare Well!                                                  *smile*                            

                                                Much appreciated!                                            

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 3
Anita Van Hal | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2012 9:42 PM

Amen!

Posts 78
Kelvin Chiu | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 2 2012 11:38 AM

Just my two cents.

Yes some packages are not really useful. Why don't just download the Logos4 base package and then order whatever you think is useful?

Business is business they need to pay the employees, benefits, tax...etc

I spent couple years to build up my library and almost spent $20000.00

If you cannot afford Logos why don't try Bibleworks, e-sword...etc

E-Sword is pretty good and they have a lot of resources if you go to this webpage:

http://www.biblesupport.com/

For example you need to pay around couple hundred dollars on Lange commentary in Logos but e-sword is free for you and also a lot of useful exegetical commentaries.

just my 2-cent

Kelvin

 

Posts 10524
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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 2 2012 12:13 PM

Kelvin Chiu:
I spent couple years to build up my library and almost spent $20000.00

Took me more than a couple of years to reach $20k

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 2 2012 12:23 PM

Kelvin Chiu:
E-Sword is pretty good and they have a lot of resources if you go to this webpage:

I think I will go over to that website and post the Logos Free Book of the Month. And then I will post a ditty about the FREE Perseus library. Andd maybe something about free Vyrso books.....

Then I will let all the users know my per book cost for 10,000+ Logos books was less than $4. That included NICOT/NICNT, Lange's and Zondervan's.

 

I just don't get why users can't afford $4 a book and why WS, QV, and BW can't match it. 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 701
ChelseaFC | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 2 2012 1:17 PM

What a great tread! Smile

Chelsea FC- Today is a good day!

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 2 2012 4:25 PM

Marcus G.:

What a great tread! Smile

So step on it.  Smile

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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