Logos Is Too Expensive

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This post has 31 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 14
Joel Reed | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jul 28 2012 4:56 PM

I have been researching some of the 'Bible Software' packages that are found on the market, and I have to say that Logos appears to be the best available. That being said it is also the most expensive software available! I am also disappointed to see Logos watering down their products by offering nearly ten different packages, especially when the first four software packages are so useless. (I.E. Christian Home, Bible Study Library, Leaders Library, and Original Languages) In my opinion the first package that should be offered is the 'Scholars Library' ... I simply can't see any reason why Logos would be so stingy with their products. Is it just me or would it make a lot more sense for them to release their software as 'Bronze, Silver, and Gold'. (With the option to buy the portfolio) I looked at the comparison chart, and the first four packages are so striped down they don't even seem to be worth the already outrageous price they are listed at. Come on people, you can download a variety of far more complex software like 'Libre Office' completely free, but we can't seem to find reasonably priced Bible software to help us grow in our faith?

I'm sorry to say that something is simply not right with this world. I understand the fact that you have to make a profit in order to keep your feet on the ground, but charging over $600 for a beginners package seems a bit out of line.

I seriously hope you folks will reconsider your pricing strategy, because I am sure you would sell a lot more copies if you weren't asking so much money. It is actually quite easy to find most of the books you offer in the software on eBook websites for free, since most of the books you carry are no longer copy-written. (E.g. The Bibles, Luther, Bunyan, etc) It bothers me to read the section on your website that says 'Over $10,000 in Print!' when that is simply not true. If you have to renegotiate with some of the Authors, please do so, because this is simply ridiculous.

* Just as a side note, I posted this topic in the 'General Section' before I noticed the 'Suggestions Section'. (Not sure where it belongs)

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 5:18 PM

Welcome to the forums. Either forum would be acceptable. I hope you realize that what resources are necessary for Logos to be helpful is very dependent upon the use one wishes to put it to. Spoken as one who started the a "useless" lower 4 package.Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 14
Joel Reed | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 5:55 PM

*Taken from a previous post in the 'General' section.

Thanks for the reply, it's good to hear someone else's perspective on the matter!

I think this is my biggest problem ... Are Christians here to make lots of money through ministry, or help other Christians grow in their faith?

Perhaps I sound a bit harsh, but I have become progressively frustrated by so many of the so called 'Christian Businesses' that are charging an arm and a leg for their products. I've heard all of the excuses before, such as limited distribution, or a small buyers market, but these couldn't be further from the truth. The Christian market is one of the largest individualized markets in the world! There are plenty of people out there that are willing to purchase items like these, and distribution companies would be glad to offer competitive prices to anyone who will give them business. I think many of the Christians out there are stuck in the mentality that for some strange reason Christian products are supposed to be more expensive than secular products. It's almost like most Christians are accepting some kind of 'Persecution Tax' that elevates the prices of their goods and services. Well, I'm happy to tell you all that there are millions of eager Christians in the world that are dying for more ways to grow in their faith, but unfortunately there aren't a lot of ministries (or companies) out there that are willing to supply these needs at a reasonable price. To give you an idea of what I mean, I have included a few examples of some of the so called ministries out there that are gouging their customers . .. JVIM Ministries charges an average of $25-$40 PER DVD even though they sell tens of thousands every week. Rose Publications sells a single Powerpoint DVD for $40 covering only one topic, regardless of the fact that there are thousands of Homeschooling families who would love to have such a wonderful resource ... Jeremiah Films, Prophesy In The News and Exploration Films charge between $20-$40 for an individual DVD (Almost no exceptions in all three cases) ... and of course the biggest perpetrator of them all is Logos Bible Software... charging $150 for a basic Bible software package including no more than a Few Bibles, References and Commentaries ... most of which you can find for free on any eBook website!

I'm sorry if I sound bitter ... I guess I'm tired of being taken advantage of by my so called brothers and sisters in Christ.

As far as I'm concerned, value doesn't play into this ... I would feel taken advantage of if I paid $600 for any software, let alone Bible Software.

Please tell me if I'm way off base here ... but I'm sure there are many of you out there who have experienced the same thing.

Posts 10324
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 7:30 PM

Joel, when Logos introduced its Logos4 software, they termed it 'the cadillac'.

Now imagine going to the Cadillac dealer and complaining about the prices. Certainly the dealership's not going to listen. That's why they're selling Cadillacs.

If they reduced their prices, how could they sell Cadillacs?

And the Cadillac purchasers certainly aren't going to be real thrilled with you implying they're wasting their money. Instead they'll demonstrate just how great a buy a Cadillac really is. Why everyone likes to spend money, don't they?

Proof? Just last night I was on another Bible software company's website and it showed what I had paid for my books there. I couldn't believe I was so stupid. I spent almost 80% less than Logos on the same resources. What was I thinking??


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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 7:43 PM

Joel Reed:
As far as I'm concerned, value doesn't play into this ... I would feel taken advantage of if I paid $600 for any software, let alone Bible Software.

In 2009, Logos changed their licensing so if $ 600 was paid today, all of the $ 600 purchases high quality digital resource licenses.  Logos offers all their Bible Software for free on a variety of platforms plus includes frequent software upgrades for free.

If Logos resources are not worth $ 600 to you, then not spending $ 600 is prudent.

As a Logos user, my orders page now shows much more than $ 600, which has been very valuable for me.  My favorite commentary series => UBS New Testament Handbook Series and => UBS Old Testament Handbook Series retail for $ 799.95 so purchasing Scholar's Gold base package is a better resource deal.  Noticed Amazon has paperback editions of UBS Handbooks, whose new prices add up to more than $ 799.95 for 41 volumes.  Yet the paperback editions do not have the ability to right click on a Bible verse, then open UBS handbook to that verse, which is valuable to me.

Edit: noticed UBS New Testament Handbook series is available on a competitor's web site for less than Logos.

One idea is trying the FaithLife Study Bible for Free (especially on mobile devices) => Your input needed: Faithlife Study Bible

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 10324
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 7:57 PM

Actually KS4J, the UBS set was one of the ones I noticed how much I'd paid at 'the other software company'.

 


Posts 1216
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 8:05 PM

Joel Reed:

Please tell me if I'm way off base here ... but I'm sure there are many of you out there who have experienced the same thing.

You are way off base. I have spent way over $600 for my library and every penny has been spent wisely. Sure, there are a few resources I do not use and probably never will in my library. But I use my library for a ton of reasons and every penny I have spent I would do again. It is very simple. If you do not like the prices, do not buy the product. Do not count me as one who has experienced the same thing. You get what you pay for. If you want a cheaper product then go somewhere else and get it.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 8:08 PM

Joel Reed:
I would feel taken advantage of if I paid $600 for any software, let alone Bible Software.

I use at least 2 pieces of software that if I had a standard versions (rather than home edition) or if I had all the features I would like to have would be >$600. As a retired IT professional, I understand why they are priced as they are and feel the price is reasonable. On Bible software outside of Logos my main purchases are similar to Jewish Early Writings/Christian Early Writings where I consider my purchase much more of a contribution to keep a valuable site open than a price for a resource. I'm not familiar with the resources you mention with a partial exception for Rose Publishing.

Lucky for me that I spent my career working for a University so I didn't have to learn business profit making stuff - only cost effectiveness. So I have no experience or knowledge re: whether Christian companies are overcharging. Sometimes ignorance is, in fact, bliss.Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 4
Terry Mott | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2012 8:36 PM

I always seem to wish things could be purchased cheaply.  That usually doesn't happen and when it does, I end up with buyer's remorse.  Why?  Because the best costs more.  After all, it's not the exact same product!  It's better.  More features, etc.  The coding in Logos books is technical and time consuming.  Someone(s) is making a living doing that for each book!

I have learned to look at this as an investment.  Just as a mechanic may spend money on "cheap" tools, he soon learns that was a mistake.  Logos gives us the ability to buy what we can afford and even offers payment plans.  By the way, I now own the Portfolio version.  I certainly didn't start out with it, but I am glad I was able to work my way up to it.

Logos does have to renegotiate with publishing companies.  And, sometimes they are not able to.  That means occasionally some  books aren't able to stay in the packages.  But, if you own them now, you will get to keep them.  It is best to "move up" as you can, in the best Bible software out there . 

I think a lot of people aren't knowledgeable enough with all the bells and whistles (and I mean, really neat features), that they don't understand how far Logos is advanced compared to the competition.  Logos is far more than a compilation of books.  I appreciate that difference and invest in it.

Also, consider you can use Logos on PC, MAC, iPad, iPhone, Android, etc...no extra charge.  If other companies are moving that way, it is because Logos has lead the way and ultimately forced the market to move to our advantage.  Logos has been very generous in their "use" policies.

Someone say, "AMEN!"

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 4:08 AM

Amen!

                                          *smile*

                                                              Peace to all!          and ...     Always Joy in the Lord!

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 568
Caleb S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 11:35 AM

I do not feel that Logos is overpriced at all. You are NOT paying for JUST books. You are paying for the software itself. If you look at how much an Operating System is (Windows and OSX and Linux), you see that they are priced differently. Linux is basically free because the people who are writing code are not necessarily getting paid doing it. Windows and OSX are not free because the people working on them have no other job. They have to be paid. When it comes to most software (including games, etc.) you really do get what you pay for (usually). Some free things are great, but they are usually very limited. The same is USUALLY true of vehicles (but not always). USUALLY, more expensive cars are more expensive because of 1) how they are designed, and 2) because of the parts they use. The cheaper the parts (and fewer "bells and whistles") the cheaper the car. The more "bells and whistles" and the better quality parts, the more expensive the vehicle will be. For specific fields of work, the workman (or woman) NEED specific tools, and the more expensive the tools, the better quality they usually are, and the longer they usually last.

When it comes to Bible Software, it is VERY similar. Logos and Accordance were designed with the Scholar in mind (hence the searches for the different languages, such as Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Coptic, Ugaritic, Syriac, and many modern languages) and to have all of those font styles takes work (some are not even free). So they have to pay someone to create the code so it searches English and every other language that Logos supports, so that it finds exactly what you are looking for. There are free Bible programs (such as e-Sword), but you can't really search in Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic or any other Ancient Language (I know, I have used it), and I have found the program to be MORE frustrating for what I am trying to do. Plus, Logos is designed that when you buy it, you can download it to Mac or Windows, without having to worry about it working on the platform. So they have to have developers make it work on Windows XP, Vista, 7, and now 8 (a lot of work), and OSX Leopard, Snow Leopard, Lion, and now Mountain Lion (also, a lot of work). Plus, the cheaper Bible Programs (cheaper than Logos and Accordance, Accordance is similarly priced), tend to NOT have Sytax or Morph Searches (which is MORE coding). If I went through everything they have to code, we'd find MANY specific areas of Logos that have to be coded (that you probably won't find in cheaper or free Bible Software programs, such as E-Sword, which you can only search for English or your specific Modern Language). So Logos have many teams for the features they are making better AS WELL as the NEW features that we KEEP asking for. All of that takes time and money and building space. So, when you buy the Logos Software, you are paying for all of the bells and whistles. Which include (but is not limited to) the ability to click on a verse in ANY book, commentary, bible dictionary, bible encyclopedia, Biblical language dictionary, Lexicon, etc. and it will take you to the verse in your preferred Bible. They have to pay people to do that so that you can hover your mouse cursor over the verse and it will give you a pop-up of the verse. Very few of the cheaper bible Software programs will have exactly those features. The free ones, you have to go to the bible and type in the bible reference yourself.

The free books you pay for so that someone can put them into electronic format and make them searchable for every word and bible reference, etc. The rest of the books, bible commentaries, bible dictionaries, etc. that you can STILL find on the publisher's site, have set prices. Those set prices come from the publisher. Logos cannot sell them for cheaper than what the Publisher tells them to do. They give discounts to Pastors, academic teachers, and academic students when the Publisher allows them to do so. (Zondervan, for instance, does not allow such discounts. The only discounts you can get for Zondervan books, etc. is through the Pre-Publication Specials, which are ALSO set by the Publisher). The books that you find cheaply online (such as through Amazon.com etc.) are usually used books, or books sold outside of the Publisher, so they can set the prices they want. The electronic books that Logos get (especially if the electronic forms come directly from the publisher) tend to have a price set already (by the publisher). (Plus, Logos adds books, commentaries, encyclopedias, etc. every week or every month, which also costs money). Here is something else to think about: the more expensive the Base Product, the more books/commentary series/dictionaries/etc. it has that are NOT free OR cheep. Look those ones up on Logos and (especially) the publisher's website and compare the books in print versus what you are getting in Logos. For example, in the Gold Edition, ONE of the Commentaries you get is the New International Greek Testament Commentary. DIRECTLY from Eerdmans.com, the entire series is $834. You can get it by itself for $445.95 from Logos or in the Gold Edition!! If you totalled up all the expensive resources in the Gold Edition and checked out the prices from the Publisher, you could get a price OVER $1379.95! (I know, I have priced this stuff up before). (I'm sure there are some books, etc. that Logos sets, but I believe that MOST of the prices you see come from the Publishers and not Logos).

Everything you pay for in Logos is WELL worth the money. I am still buying up Bible dictionaries, Bible commentaries, etc. from Logos and they are streamlining my research and personal studies. Logos might have more bells and whistles than you will use, so you might be content with cheaper Bible Software (that don't necessarily have all of the same features and books, commentaries, dictionaries, encyclopedias, etc as Logos). For me, Logos has been exactly what I have been looking for. I actually wish I had found it sooner.

Here is a suggestion for you: You might want the Scholar's Edition or higher, but if you don't have the money, I'd suggest starting out smaller and upgrading. When you upgrade, you don't have to pay for the whole price of the next one up. For Example, say you begin with the Christian Home edition ($149.95). If you upgrade to the Bible Study Library it will be (no joke) $115 (instead of $264.95)! (That is 264.95-149.95). If you decide to upgrade Leader's Library it will be $60! (324.95-264.95)! Then let's say you decide to go to the Original Languages Library, it will cost you $91 (415.95-324.95)! Then let's say you decide to go up from there to the Scholar's Library; that will cost you 214 ($629.95-415.95)! I began with the Scholar's Library (I was in College so I was able to get a Student discount, plus I used a payment plan for 12 months), and I later upgraded to the Gold Edition. To upgrade to Gold it was $750 (but I was still in College so I again got a Student discount, down to $615 or thereabouts). I added up all the NEW expensive series and dictionaries that I was getting and it would have cost more OVER $1000 to buy each of those resources individually....through Logos. But if you went from Scholar's to Silver it would be $370, and from Silver to Gold it would be $380, and from Gold to Platinum it would be $310, and from Platinum to Portfolio would be $2600.05. But, if you were add up all of the commentaries and collections and books that you get and all of the collections that you would be getting (that are found in Portfolio but not in any other  Base Package), you'd be getting in excess of $7000 worth of books (going from Platinum to Portfolio that is), if you were to buy them individually. Plus, there are some books that are not available individually (that is, outside of the Portfolio Edition). Plus, with all the ways of searching (including looking up Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin, Syriac, Coptic, etc Languages [without having to know Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, or Latin]), and copying and pasting to Word processors (and Logos footnotes everything you copy and paste for you), etc., you are getting a lot for your monies worth. Plus, after buying them, if you have to get a whole new computer, you do not have to re-purchase everything. You can just go to Logos.com, and download either the Mac or Windows installer, sign in, and everything downloads to your computer.

If I were you, either a) stop complaining and budget for what you want and then buy it, or b) slowly purchase what you want, whether once a month or more often or less often (depending on your finances of course), or c) go elsewhere.

Are there things that DESPERATELY need to be fixed and/or vastly improved? Of course. All software have both great things and not so great things. But you will have to choose whether or not paying for all the extra bells and whistles of Logos will be worth it. In my humble opinion, Logos is higher end than "Cadillac". So,  in my humble opinion, you will get your monies worth.

Logos 8.7.0.0042 + Faithlife Connect | macOS Mojave 10.14.6 | Mid 2015 Macbook Pro 15" | 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7 | 16 GB RAM | 1 TB SSD PCIe Express

Posts 10324
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 11:48 AM

Wow, I'm just lovin' these two threads. 'Cadillac' not good enough. What, Rolls Royce maybe? I suppose Mercedes but which model?

Spending so much time to the right of the evangelical theology is just not hard to do.  

 


Posts 568
Caleb S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2012 11:53 AM

Well, it's just my opinion, but if Logos can be compared to a Cadillac, I'd say a very high end one....I don't pay much attention to cars, so I wouldn't know what model. I was thinking Ferrari, but I'm sure someone would say that a Ferrari is too high end for comparison purposes.

Logos 8.7.0.0042 + Faithlife Connect | macOS Mojave 10.14.6 | Mid 2015 Macbook Pro 15" | 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7 | 16 GB RAM | 1 TB SSD PCIe Express

Posts 1
Rolf | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 18 2013 6:17 AM

Dear Joel Reed,

I completely agree with what you say, for Logos heinously overpriced, and  that I say since I have a giant of a Bible program called BibleWorks for very cheap money and with ten times the worth of capacity. Therefore, I believe that the pricing policy of Logos owners with soon be a cold breath in their neck with more cheap and really good Bible programs coming up for PC-users, for instance Accordance 10.

I use BibleWorks and am extremely content with its capacity and extension to other free resources, so I am definitely not going to pay extortionate prices for such programs as Logos, as I see they will, with the development of good and still cheap and people-loving programs coming, dry out as a plant that had not the roots in reality!

Good luck,

Try BibleWorks or Accordance 10, and you will stay happy!

Rolf Olsen

Posts 247
JC54 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 18 2013 6:39 AM

Accordance always seemed to ben more expensive to me, whereas bibleworks more or less equals in pricing.

Where do you find this huge differences in price?

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 18 2013 6:53 AM

This is a thread from almost a year ago. Resurrecting old threads is not always a good idea.

The difference in pricing is due to the resources included. Each package from each company has a given number and type of resources. 

The short answer is to locate the resources that will aid your study and buy them individually or as a collection as the case may be. This is what I've done, and I'm currently running Logos Silver with a broad selection of different resources added on.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 1841
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 18 2013 1:50 PM

For me Logos could priced their books cheaper, I know their books are indexed BUT since they have their "indexing software" up & running already.. Why don't reduce the price??

I'm sure they paid off their overhead for their indexing software..

If logos books were priced 40%-75% cheaper... I'm sure Logos would profit be the same amount of end net income.

Plus, one of common sale tactics is "people's financial negligence" or getting the advantage of people carelessness in making decision. So IT IS should be tough to begin with to buy books at these price for most common Christians....(at least for me)

Again, the demographic audience target for Logos are Christians (I wasn't raised in the "western", so the way I view at how Christian's sales is completely different)

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 18 2013 2:09 PM

mike:

For me Logos could priced their books cheaper, I know their books are indexed BUT since they have their "indexing software" up & running already.. Why don't reduce the price??

I'm sure they paid off their overhead for their indexing software..

When did you last audit Logos' books?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1841
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 18 2013 2:38 PM

I'm sorry I didn't mean it sound offensive..

What I'm saying is .. Their indexing software is so far advance (look at how fast CP books and Pre-Pub books come out) unlike us here who edit our PBB books very slow.

Now... if only their indexing software is somewhat open source .. so we can help... :P

(yea, I'm dreaming)

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 18 2013 4:31 PM

mike:
If logos books were priced 40%-75% cheaper... I'm sure Logos would profit be the same amount of end net income.

If Logos reduces resource prices by 50 %, then sales needs to increase by 100 % to generate same amount of gross revenue.  For net income, would need more sales to cover increased costs for Logos servers (e.g. downloads to a variety of electronic devices) along with paying royalties to publishers and authors.

On 1 Nov 2012, Bob Pritchett (CEO) included profit margin insight => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58026/413124.aspx#413124

Bob Pritchett:

Jacques:
He feels they should be ashamed for this kind of profit-margin, it's not reasonable.

What would a reasonable profit margin be? What profit margin does your friend think Logos has?


For what it's worth, I got our third-quarter financials earlier this week. For 2012 so far, the Logos profit margin was just about 0.38%. (Not 38%. Less than half of one percent.


Now I'm not looking for sympathy -- we're fine. It's better than that most years, and the first three quarters of this year reflect a lot of investment in Logos 5 that hadn't yet generated any revenue. (That's what we're doing now!) I expect we'll end the year with solid single-digit profitability, and we've beaten that in the past.


But the point is, we have to sell something in order to be here to serve you into the future. It's insanely expensive to develop software, especially when you have to develop the same software on Mac, Windows, Android/Kindle, iPhone/iPad, Web (and now Windows 8 RT!) simultaneously. While offering free support.


So I'll take the criticism that we're always trying to sell you more books -- it's true, and it's the only way we get paid. Though, at every upgrade cycle, it does condemn us to a lot of impassioned forum conversations about the injustice of upgrade bundles. :-)


I do welcome your input on a solution. Maybe the "free software" concept was a bad idea? Few other products I have have been offering free engine updates -- in any form -- since 1995. I've bought Word, Excel, Windows, Mac OS, etc. many times in those 17 years. Should Logos just move to paid upgrades, and stop making so many books? (It might be hard to make that change after all these years, but it's an interesting question.)


I appreciate your investing in our product, and I hope that you'll continue to believe it has been a good investment. And I want you to know that we're working hard to serve you better AND ensure that we're here for decades to come to support the investment you have made. Input on how to do that is always welcome.


(My favorite idea... just convince every Christian in America to pay $3 per month... then we could offer everybody all the content, support, and continued maintenance for a very low price! The only trick is getting everyone signed up at once...) :-)


-- Bob

Thankful for many free Logos Bible Software upgrades.  For Logos 5 and 4 on Mac OS X, wiki has a list that goes back to Oct 2009 => http://wiki.logos.com/Mac_Release_Notes_and_History

Thankful for 406 free ebooks on Vyrso.com since Thanksgiving 2011, which is 396 complete eBooks and 10 Samplers.  Thankful for Vyrso eBooks being searchable in Logos 5 and 4.

Thankful for many free Logos resources => http://www.logos.com/products/search?start=0&sort=pricelo&pageSize=30 that includes Lexham English Bible and Greek New Testament: SBL Edition along with Perseus Collections

Thankful for several large purchase sales, which included resources that were later found to contain gems.

Thankful for many friendly forum discussions: have learned a lot about Logos Bible Software plus have a lot to learn: e.g. Logos Hebrew Morphology.

Thankful for a profitable (Income - Expenses = Profit) reply by Bob Pritchett on 2 Nov 2012 => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58162/414162.aspx#414162

Wiki page => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Speaks includes production cost insights => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/11152/91266.aspx#91266

Keep Smiling Smile

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