Now the first three EEC commentaries are available individually

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 10:41 AM

TCBlack:

I paid what I paid when I paid it because I was both convinced and willing that it was a worthwhile gamble to make.

I still am.

Someone said, "Great minds think alike." Happy to see that this also applies to our minds Big Smile

Posts 2279
Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 10:42 AM

I am not usually given to complain, but I am disappointed with this.

In all honesty, I am generally uncomfortable with what I perceive to be Logos' high pressure sale technique: buy now before the price increases by x-amount (particularly given that 'x-amount' is most often synonymous with 'unaffordable'). I agree that I am responsible for my own purchasing decisions and finances. I am fully capable of saying no.  I also recognise that this may be a cultural thing (I am from the UK). 

It is my recollection that the 'pitch' implied (at the very least) that this set would not be broken up and available for the foreseeable future. I expected that the foreseeable future extended beyond (in fact, way beyond) the first three instalments. Had I known that the set was to be broken up at such an early stage, I would have just purchased the instalments which most interested me, as and when they became available. 

It has been suggested that if we are unhappy we should request a refund. To be honest with you, I would feel uncomfortable doing this given that I have been using the initial offerings and have paid a significant chunk of the total cost. (I appreciate this may seem silly.)

Irrespective of my reticence in requesting a refund, this does not feel right and I am somewhat less than impressed.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 10:50 AM

OT comment removed Wink

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 10:58 AM

NB.Mick:
OT comment removed Wink

OT reply likewise.

EDIT: Except now it looks suspicious. LOL

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 11:38 AM

Thanks for all your feedback. For those of you who purchased the whole set and are concerned, you can rest assured that we intend to protect the value of your purchase. We are experimenting with offering individual volumes as a tool to get people into the whole set (and we're open to reevaluating that decision). However, individual volumes will be priced much higher. So buying the set on Pre-Pub will still have been the best value for getting this set.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 12:12 PM

Phil, why exactly did Logos state clearly at the outset that the set would be available only as a whole, then go back on that without so much as a heads up or an explanation?

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 12:31 PM

Mark Smith:

Phil, why exactly did Logos state clearly at the outset that the set would be available only as a whole, then go back on that without so much as a heads up or an explanation?

Mark, I'll need to review what was actually said. When I authorized offering the individual volumes, I didn't recall any kind of promise that was made that we'd never make them available individually (and apparently the others that I discussed it with didn't either). I'm not saying that's not the case, only that it wasn't done intentionally aware of conflicting promises. If you have them handy and can point me to them, I'd appreciate it. As I said, we're happy to reevaluate this decision, especially if it's in conflict with something we said originally.

I apologize in advance if we made a mistake. Things have been extra busy lately (my wife and I just welcomed our first son into the world: I'm typing this as he makes his cute little noises next to me :) ), and I may have made too hasty of a decision without all of the necessary pieces of data. We will do what's necessary to make things right.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 12:51 PM

Phil Gons:
I didn't recall any kind of promise that was made that we'd never make them available individually (and apparently the others that I discussed it with didn't either). I'm not saying that's not the case, only that it wasn't done intentionally aware of conflicting promises. If you have them handy and can point me to them, I'd appreciate it. As I said, we're happy to reevaluate this decision, especially if it's in conflict with something we said originally.

Fair enough Phil. Busy happens and I know decisions get made along the way in the midst of busy.

Since you asked; this is on the eec website (http://evangelicalexegeticalcommentary.com/order/):

http://evangelicalexegeticalcommentary.com/order/

 

The same wording was extant on the original order page. (Via the wayback machine you can find it.)

"The EEC is only available as a set. The commentaries are not available for individual purchase."

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20101106073723/http://www.logos.com/product/7565/evangelical-exegetical-commentary 

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 667
Jonathan Pitts | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 12:58 PM

I haven’t kept the emails, but the website says it is only available as a set:

http://evangelicalexegeticalcommentary.com/order/

I'm pretty sure we were told that it would remain only available as a set, but I don't have the evidence for that.


See my comments above. The change to selling individual volumes isn’t necessary a bad thing, but we would just like to have been told and given a reason before the change was made (and perhaps the option of a refund given to those who want it).

 

Posts 1012
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 1:08 PM

We were told that volumes would not be available individually before any had been published, hence that had to be taken as a future expectation and was used as a reason why people needed to commit to the full series.

It is not particularly outrageous but it was in hindsight definitely misleading and may undermine future Logos marketing.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 1:09 PM

Phil Gons:
(my wife and I just welcomed our first son into the world: I'm typing this as he makes his cute little noises next to me :) )

My other comments are pending moderation.... but I just have to say...

Congratulations!

Enjoy the lack of sleep these next few months.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 101
jtondee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 1:47 PM

I know some are disappointed with this development based off what was said when, logos was offering fantastic deals to early subscribers, but as one  who couldn't afford to get in at that time, I am overjoyed they are offering the opportunity to get in with individual volumes. I really wish they would do that with more of their sets. I totally understand what some are expressing, the disappointment that it wasn't communicated clearly, but they have opened the window for some who are on strict budgets to sample the quality of this set by individual volumes

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Jonathan | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 1:59 PM

Phil Gons:

Mark Smith:

Phil, why exactly did Logos state clearly at the outset that the set would be available only as a whole, then go back on that without so much as a heads up or an explanation?

Mark, I'll need to review what was actually said. When I authorized offering the individual volumes, I didn't recall any kind of promise that was made that we'd never make them available individually (and apparently the others that I discussed it with didn't either). I'm not saying that's not the case, only that it wasn't done intentionally aware of conflicting promises. If you have them handy and can point me to them, I'd appreciate it. As I said, we're happy to reevaluate this decision, especially if it's in conflict with something we said originally.

I apologize in advance if we made a mistake. Things have been extra busy lately (my wife and I just welcomed our first son into the world: I'm typing this as he makes his cute little noises next to me :) ), and I may have made too hasty of a decision without all of the necessary pieces of data. We will do what's necessary to make things right.

I commented on this way back in September 2010 saying, 

Jonathan:

I am excited about this commentary set. I only wish that Logos would move away from the philosophy of only selling an entire set. It would be nice if we could order commentaries on an individual basis. I love a number of the NICOT/NICNT commentaries, but will not buy them on Logos. Why do we have to buy a set of commentaries (ranging from $700-2000) to get the four-five commentaries that we are interested in? I would ask Logos to take a serious look at changing this part of their marketing philosophy. I think you would sell a lot more commentaries and probably pick up a number of new users. I understand that Logos is at the hands of the publisher in some instances, but with EEC Logos is the publisher! I wonder if Logos is actually the  one who does not want to sell commentaries on an individual basis.

 

The only reason I made this observation was because of the "seeming" promise, at the time, that the commentaries would only be available as a set. I am happy that Logos has chosen to break up the set, but if I had bought the set on prepub, I would be pretty upset right now. This move does tell me that Logos marketing "hype" is just that, "hype."

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Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 2:03 PM

jtondee:
I am overjoyed they are offering the opportunity to get in with individual volumes

As one who has expressed disappointment, my concern pertains to the original sales pitch (which now feels a little like overselling) and the lack of communication and explanation regarding the splitting of the set. 

I am not proposing that Logos withdraw the individual titles (not that the decision has anything to do with me). I do understand that many will appreciate being able to buy the editions which most interest them. I would, however, be grateful if future consideration could be given to how products are marketed under such circumstances.

Phil Gons:
When I authorized offering the individual volumes, I didn't recall any kind of promise that was made that we'd never make them available individually (and apparently the others that I discussed it with didn't either). I'm not saying that's not the case, only that it wasn't done intentionally aware of conflicting promises. If you have them handy and can point me to them, I'd appreciate it. As I said, we're happy to reevaluate this decision, especially if it's in conflict with something we said originally.

I very much appreciate you taking time to respond. I fully appreciate your position.

Most importantly, congratulations on the birth of your son.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 2:08 PM

jtondee:
I know some are disappointed with this development based off what was said when, logos was offering fantastic deals to early subscribers, but as one  who couldn't afford to get in at that time, I am overjoyed they are offering the opportunity to get in with individual volumes. I really wish they would do that with more of their sets. I totally understand what some are expressing, the disappointment that it wasn't communicated clearly, but they have opened the window for some who are on strict budgets to sample the quality of this set by individual volumes

 

I agree wholeheartedly. As one of the early adopters on this, I'm glad you have a chance now. But it would have been cool to have a post say, "Hey, we've changed our minds on this because <reason>".

Phil has already indicated that he made the call on it. I'm not mad at Phil or Logos. In fact I'm not mad. Just making note of a reversal that probably deserved a comment before it happened.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 1357
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 2:34 PM

Mark Smith:

I think a pre-pub is a mutual commitment , esp. once money changes hands. It is a partnership. I believe it should be treated that way. Someone at Logos does not.

Very well expressed. Yes

Posts 30
williamvarner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 2:40 PM

I am SO sorry to hear that some are disappointed and even feel a bit deceived. May the author of a soon to be released volume on James offer an opinion here?

I personally encouraged Logos to change their policy. I am sure it was not just me, but I do "bear some blame" if there is any!  I am a professor and many of my students, past and present, bemoaned the fact that they simply could not afford the price of the whole set with their low pastoral salaries or their poverty as students. I also saw on the blogosphere many who complained about having to pony up a large amount for unseen goods. I also argued that giving some people the opportunity to check out one volume will help them to make their decision to purchase the whole set (and you will still save money). In that regard please read again Michael Childs' post from August 15.

I hope that the quality of the volumes will display both a real depth and balance between exegesis, Biblical theology, and practical-sermonic ideas. I worked hard at that!

I feel very bad that some have charged Logos with false advertising. That grieves me because I know these people to be highly ethical and committed to ministry, not to making money off the backs of their users as effectively as they can!

Tell you what. I believe so strongly in the quality of what the Logos authors are producing and because I was one of the big pushers to get them to change their policy, I will personally refund anything you pay for my commentary if you are unsatisfied with it.  I can't make that promise regarding the others, but I am very confident that you will be as satisfied with them as well.

Believe me, you will win in the end with a purchase of the entire set or with purchasing one.

Dr William Varner                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 The Master's College                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Author of James EEC

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 2:55 PM

TCBlack:

Fair enough Phil. Busy happens and I know decisions get made along the way in the midst of busy.

Since you asked; this is on the eec website (http://evangelicalexegeticalcommentary.com/order/):

http://evangelicalexegeticalcommentary.com/order/

 

The same wording was extant on the original order page. (Via the wayback machine you can find it.)

"The EEC is only available as a set. The commentaries are not available for individual purchase."

http://web.archive.org/web/20101106073723/http://www.logos.com/product/7565/evangelical-exegetical-commentary 

Thanks, T. C. As others have pointed it, the website should have been updated to reflect this change. I'll make sure that happens. However, these statements merely indicated what was true at the time. They make no claims of what will be true in the future. I don't feel these statements prohibited the change that we made (with their being removed, of course). To be clear, I'm not saying such statements weren't made. I just haven't seen them yet, and didn't recall them at the time of making the decision.

I'll make sure we do a careful review of all of our marketing messages from two years ago (which I should have done originally) and make any changes necessary to preserve the truthfulness and reliability of our word.

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Alan Charles Gielczyk | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 3:04 PM

I do not understand why some people feel deceived. The fact remains that early adopters still got the best deal. I personally am very happy to buy the volumes individually because I could not justify the initial output. I understand some maybe would not have purchased the entire set if they knew the individual volumes would be released so soon but I would suggest a CS call. Logos is a great company and I am happy these volumes are on sale. Please Logos do not stop releasing the individual volumes. Things change and I wish I could have gotten in on the early deal some here are lamenting now but don't take away my access to these commentaries!

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Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 17 2012 3:35 PM

IMO, even if there may be reason to believe or feel that Logos hasn't been totally upright in this - and I think the default understanding of the original promo language for most persons would be that it would always (not just "at this time" or "for now") only be available as a set, though I can now see how it could be argued that Logos hasn't in fact gone back on their word (so to speak) by now offering single volumes - I think the decision to sell individual volumes is a good one for the reasons given, and I also don't regret having bought the set for $700.

Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)

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