Notes Performance

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Posts 192
John Eggen | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Aug 20 2012 12:45 PM

I'm taking more and more notes in L4, especially now that I can view them on Android.

I've noticed often that typing in notes in the Desktop app is really sluggish for me, especially on my laptop.  It's a couple years old (dual core, 2.4 Ghz, 4Gb RAM) but it still seems that basic typing should be reasonably responsive.  (I can get two/three words ahead of L4 typing)  Are there some basic ways I can alter my note taking to improve responsiveness?  The note file I am working in references 43 passages, and is about 6 pages if I go to export/print to letter size paper.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 20 2012 1:03 PM

John Eggen:
The note file I am working in references 43 passages, and is about 6 pages if I go to export/print to letter size paper.

Out of curiosity… Do you mean the note document or a single note within a note document?

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Posts 192
John Eggen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 20 2012 1:09 PM

alabama24:

John Eggen:
The note file I am working in references 43 passages, and is about 6 pages if I go to export/print to letter size paper.

Out of curiosity… Do you mean the note document or a single note within a note document?

I'm not sure exactly how to answer.  I have the document open, highlight a scripture and then select to add a note to the reference and then am typing in that particular note within the overall note document.  Opening and viewing the whole note document is fine, but every time I add a note to a scripture reference the response to typing is painfully slow.

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Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 20 2012 1:13 PM

John Eggen:

...typing in notes in the Desktop app is really sluggish for me, especially on my laptop.

You might have a setup issue.

By default, the visual filter (three intersecting circles) for every open resource will try to scroll with every Note file you have created. When I turned off every visual filter except for the preferred Bible, the problem went away.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 20 2012 1:18 PM

John Eggen:
I'm not sure exactly how to answer.

In the screen shot below, I have a note document open ("Delete Me Document"). Towards the bottom, I have a single note ("Individual Note") with Lorem Ipsum. What I was wanting to know is this: Is your note document 6 pages, or is your single note 6 pages?

 

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Posts 192
John Eggen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 20 2012 1:20 PM

alabama24:

John Eggen:
I'm not sure exactly how to answer.

In the screen shot below, I have a note document open ("Delete Me Document"). Towards the bottom, I have a single note ("Individual Note") with Lorem Ipsum. What I was wanting to know is this: Is your note document 6 pages, or is your single note 6 pages?

My note document is 6 pages.  Single notes are about a paragraph, and all of them are just text, no bullets, or any sort of formatting.

Posts 192
John Eggen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 20 2012 1:23 PM

Jack Hairston:

You might have a setup issue.

By default, the visual filter (three intersecting circles) for every open resource will try to scroll with every Note file you have created. When I turned off every visual filter except for the preferred Bible, the problem went away.

I'm doing this and appears I need to change this setting on each open resource.  Is there a way to automatically turn off the visual filters on everything but the preferred Bible?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 20 2012 1:39 PM

John Eggen:
My note document is 6 pages.  Single notes are about a paragraph, and all of them are just text, no bullets, or any sort of formatting.

Thanks. Your note document doesn't sound too big. I will let the PC Doctors take over from here. Smile

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Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 20 2012 2:06 PM

John Eggen:

I'm doing this and appears I need to change this setting on each open resource.  Is there a way to automatically turn off the visual filters on everything but the preferred Bible?

I haven't found a one-step fix, but I'm following this thread to learn if someone else has.

To keep from having to do this every time I open a book, I saved the setup for each Bible book. After all that work, everything runs fast, so it was worth the effort.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 20 2012 2:18 PM

John Eggen:
Is there a way to automatically turn off the visual filters on everything but the preferred Bible?

Right-click on the filter in question, and you'll get an option to turn it off everywhere. Then go to you Bible and turn it on there.

Whenever you don't find an option you think ought to exist, always try right-clicking.Smile

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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 20 2012 3:11 PM

John Eggen:

I'm taking more and more notes in L4, especially now that I can view them on Android.

I've noticed often that typing in notes in the Desktop app is really sluggish for me, especially on my laptop.  It's a couple years old (dual core, 2.4 Ghz, 4Gb RAM) but it still seems that basic typing should be reasonably responsive.  (I can get two/three words ahead of L4 typing)  Are there some basic ways I can alter my note taking to improve responsiveness?  The note file I am working in references 43 passages, and is about 6 pages if I go to export/print to letter size paper.

FYI... Logos is very well aware of this issue.  Many many many many many many many people have complained about this issue.  Logos has stated that this issue comes from WPF (the development platform that they used to create L4), and there is nothing that they can do about it.

While there is some truth there (some other companies have complained about the slowness of WPF), I do have other programs that was built using WPF, and they do not have this problem.  What I have noticed that increases the response of L4 is turning off the use of the internet.  This has made the biggest change for me.  Therefore, this issue is not a completely a WPF issue, it is also a design issue with L4, and what other users have suggested is simply workarounds for the design issue.

Posts 192
John Eggen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 21 2012 2:52 PM

tom collinge:

FYI... Logos is very well aware of this issue.  Many many many many many many many people have complained about this issue.  Logos has stated that this issue comes from WPF (the development platform that they used to create L4), and there is nothing that they can do about it.

While there is some truth there (some other companies have complained about the slowness of WPF), I do have other programs that was built using WPF, and they do not have this problem.  What I have noticed that increases the response of L4 is turning off the use of the internet.  This has made the biggest change for me.  Therefore, this issue is not a completely a WPF issue, it is also a design issue with L4, and what other users have suggested is simply workarounds for the design issue.

Well, good they are aware of it, bad it seems there isn't much to look forward to regarding changes.  I tested it today on my office computer.  The delay isn't as bad, it's still there.  Pretty remarkable actually to see a typing delay these days on a computer.  At work I run a computer with a Core i7-2600 (3.4Ghz quad core) with 8Gb of RAM, dual monitor but with two Radeon HD 6450 cards.  I'm not arguing this thing is the fastest computer in the world, but certainly I wouldn't expect any sorts of typing delays in any programs on this device.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 22 2012 6:34 AM

It's a shame that a feature that is so heavily used by a lot of us, is sub-par on a performance level.  There has to be a way to fix this.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 22 2012 6:49 AM

Well, if I remember right, Bob views notes as what you would write in the margins of your Bible.

Here's some examples that would go in your Bible margins: 'Great thought!' or 'See Isa 4.15' or 'Wow!'

If you follow the design of Logos, then the notes function works perfectly well.

Now Jack's recommendation to 'turn off' Logos functions is troubling. Those functions were part of the design. True, they badly slow the software down, but still, they're part of the design.

A lot of people (most) take software designed for a specific use and then try to bend it around to what 'they' want. This isn't what software is for.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 22 2012 6:57 AM

Ironic, just  this morning I saw this comment regarding a competing product:

"The note taking feature is priceless.This is a computer so you can take a paragraph / chapter / book worth of notes for a single verse. Try writing that paragraph in the margin of your paper bible LOL. Great Great Product."

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 848
Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 22 2012 7:12 AM

DMB:

Now Jack's recommendation to 'turn off' Logos functions is troubling. Those functions were part of the design. True, they badly slow the software down, but still, they're part of the design.

Ummm, what I recommended was that the connection to the Notes file be reduced to the preferred Bible only, not turned off entirely. The default design has every Bible and every commentary trying to scroll Notes and every other open resource at the same time; that takes too many compute cycles. Allowing just one resource to track Notes is so much more efficient that users are not slowed down.

Posts 192
John Eggen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 22 2012 7:14 AM

DMB:

Well, if I remember right, Bob views notes as what you would write in the margins of your Bible.

Here's some examples that would go in your Bible margins: 'Great thought!' or 'See Isa 4.15' or 'Wow!'

If you follow the design of Logos, then the notes function works perfectly well.

Now Jack's recommendation to 'turn off' Logos functions is troubling. Those functions were part of the design. True, they badly slow the software down, but still, they're part of the design.

A lot of people (most) take software designed for a specific use and then try to bend it around to what 'they' want. This isn't what software is for.

I think that would be a rather limited view of how notes could be used.  Certainly that could be the case for notes in a book, but I think when it comes to Bible notes if it's just what you could write in your margins I better stick to something line the Kindle for PC app.  That app now certainly is designed to only take short notes and only reference them as you read through things and that seems clear in the design of the app.  I'm not taking huge notes here.  I'm talking notes that, in most cases are shorter than 1/2 of this post.  I think the longest note I have is probably the length of this post w/o any formatting.

The power of having Logos is not only to have a broad collection of searchable books but, I believe, to have all your notes and references in one place.  I try to take notes for sermon prep on verses right in Logos and then later export them to my preferred format for preaching.  Over time I develop, in a sense, my own commentary on Scripture and can have it done verse by verse.  If we still had the Sermon File add-in that would reduce some of this need, because then my entire sermon would appear when I do a Passage Guide on any particular passage, but that is not the case.  Since I've lived without that product for a long time now I'm just trying to adjust my workflow to Logos instead of continuing to wait for it.  I certainly don't think I'm alone in a desire to take reasonably sized notes on Scripture as I study and prepare and capture those in Logos.

So is Logos designed for taking extended notes?  Does taking extended notes mean breaking things into more note files (one per book of the Bible, one per topic/sermon?)  Should I be using PBB for something like this instead of taking notes as I read?  I'm really open to whatever is the best workflow using Logos simply to take extended notes on individual/sets of verses and have them linked to the verse reference so they appear or are available as I read.  (Even an ability to create (as I go, not all at once) a linked resource would be perfectly fine.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 22 2012 7:22 AM

Jack / John ... I was just joking (though Bob DID make the Bible margins comment and as far as I know, that's still his position).

But turning off notes, highlights, resource connects etc shouldn't measurably impact performance since the database pointers are retained (unless one is jumping all over the Bible; not paging). I've no idea 'why' sending keystrokes up the internet is so critical (versus blocks of text). But I notice on the Logos forum software, a similar behavior.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 217
Danny Baskin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 22 2012 7:36 AM

John Eggen:
If we still had the Sermon File add-in that would reduce some of this need, because then my entire sermon would appear when I do a Passage Guide on any particular passage, but that is not the case.  Since I've lived without that product for a long time now I'm just trying to adjust my workflow to Logos instead of continuing to wait for it.  I certainly don't think I'm alone in a desire to take reasonably sized notes on Scripture as I study and prepare and capture those in Logos.

Concerning the Sermon File add-in: YES!!

About "reasonably sized notes": YOU ARE RIGHT!

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 22 2012 7:44 AM

Over the years I found these truisms to either be implied by Logos or expressly stated:

 

  1. Logos 4 is not intended to be a complete research tool, only a library / reference tool.
  2. Notes are there only to jot quick thoughts like in the margins of your Bible.
  3. Logos 4 is designed with the thought in mind that everyone has Microsoft Word, uses Word for everything, and only wants to use Word for everything.

 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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