Logos Please, on New Interpreter's Bible

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This post has 41 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 29 2012 7:19 AM

Michael Childs:

Andrew Baguley:
 It looks like Logos has got this wrong at some point, so it would be good to hear them giving better news for this set soon.  Otherwise, production could be a long way off.

I don't think Logos is at fault here...

That's an interesting take on Bob's post.

I wasn't suggesting that the fault lay entirely with Logos.  We don't know what the contract issues with the publisher are.  I took it that Logos got it wrong when they "put it up without having final source materials to estimate from", as Bob put it.  I'm happy with the apology from Bob, and the reassurance that they "try to never put something up without having resolved these things in advance".  However, it seems that Logos did get that wrong.  I took Bob's post as a confession that they didn't stick to their normal good practice, an apology that they did so, an expression of regret that things aren't better than they are, reassurance that they're working on it and reassurance that they normally follow good practice, even if they haven't quite done that here.  We all get things wrong.  Apologising and trying to resolve the problems is a good way to handle it. Smile

I wasn't sure how to read Bob's post in the light of the earlier blog post (http://blog.logos.com/2011/12/new-lower-prices-on-the-new-interpreters-bible-and-new-interpreters-dictionary/) and I feel for Dan who has been working hard to try to promote this resource and get it into production. Sad

What I think would be good is if Logos can work to resolve the contract issues, let us know where we stand, and maybe try to sweeten the deal somehow for those of us who were willing to pay more and thought that production was close eight months ago.  Telling us that we'll have to wait even longer a second time isn't great.  I don't know whether Bob was aware of/remembered the earlier change when he posted here.  The sweetener last time was that the price fell.  I'm not sure that there has been a sweetener this time, so I'd like to suggest that Logos come up with something.  They may be able to put it into production without covering all of the costs that they normally would.  That's up to Logos to decide and, if they do so, I'd like to think that they would clearly communicate it so that there is no confusion and that the bad feeling from feeling messed around can be assuaged somewhat, even if they're not entirely responsible for the problem.

My feeling is that when Logos realise that there is a problem, they usually work hard to sort it out, though they sometimes take a prompt from users/customers to do so.

As you say, Michael, it may be that pressure applied to Abingdon is in order here.  It's good that you've had a chance to respond to the email you received.  Maybe a few of us should try contacting them directly to let them know how much we've been looking forward to getting NIB and NIBD in Logos and that we look forward to hearing an estimated production date soon. 

 

Posts 570
Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 29 2012 8:17 AM

Michael Childs:

I did get an email from Abingdon with a survey last week, which I filled out and sent in.  One of the questions was about Bible software that you used.  And in the comments section I emphasized that "for over 15 years now I have bought almost all my commentaries and reference resources through Logos - thousands of dollars worth.  I will continue to do so, and I would like for that to include Abingdon resources.  But they must be in Logos format to interest me."  From that survey I take it that Abingdon is considering what direction to go, largely because their own electronic format is not selling so well. 

I got the survey too, and made it clear that Logos was my preferred format for new commentaries.  However, in hindsight I wish that survey would have come after reading Bob's post above - I would have used some stronger language had I known the holdup was with Abingdon.

Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer.  Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App

Posts 570
Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 29 2012 8:20 AM

Andrew Baguley:

As you say, Michael, it may be that pressure applied to Abingdon is in order here.  It's good that you've had a chance to respond to the email you received.  Maybe a few of us should try contacting them directly to let them know how much we've been looking forward to getting NIB and NIBD in Logos and that we look forward to hearing an estimated production date soon. 

Anyone have the email address for someone at Abingdon with enough authority to make a difference in this matter?

Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer.  Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App

Posts 274
Mike W | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 29 2012 8:33 AM

Rev Chris:
I would have used some stronger language had I known the holdup was with Abingdon

 

It's unfortunate that some publishers are so resistant to electronic publication of their works.  Given the number of academic resources in Logos and the nature of Logos customers this would be the ideal platform for works such at this and the NIBD.  It looks as if neither of these will be available before I retire (if ever).  Fortunately, our local city library has these in print.  That's a sale lost for Abingdon.  I wonder if these publishers realize how many people would buy their books in a usable electronic format but won't buy them in print.

Posts 5251
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 29 2012 3:27 PM

It's hard to know who exactly to believe. I have got an email from Abingdon, claiming negotiations are close to complete, for whatever that means, and telling me Logos offer of the NIB was purely at Logos initiative to decide whether to pursue the rights for the works. I had always thought before now Abingdon was working with Logos all along. So things May not seem as bleak as Bob made them sound but at the same point in time it;s not something shortly off either. I am not cancelling my Pre-Order but have been told as an owner of the CDROM version I have free access to the ministry matters online version.

-Dan

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 30 2012 1:41 AM

Dan Francis:

... as an owner of the CDROM version I have free access to the ministry matters online version.

It's good to hear that you have some kind of resolution here, Dan, with access to the online version, though I think most of us would agree that that's not as good as having it in Logos.  Smile

 

Dan Francis:

It's hard to know who exactly to believe. I have got an email from Abingdon, claiming negotiations are close to complete, for whatever that means, and telling me Logos offer of the NIB was purely at Logos initiative to decide whether to pursue the rights for the works. I had always thought before now Abingdon was working with Logos all along. So things May not seem as bleak as Bob made them sound ...

It would be good for Bob to communicate clearly regarding this.  Abingdon's email sounds believable.  I suspect that Logos may well have done this kind of thing in the past.  Hopefully their business has moved on to the extent that they no longer feel the need to do this and they can find a better way of gauging interest, even if it means putting a resource on pre-pub, while clearly communicating that they are not promising the product, but using it as a means to gauge interest.  The forums make clear that poor communication and misleading customers (deliberately or otherwise) are two of the great bug bears that people have with Logos.  The product is good, and thankfully improving, but the bug bears persist, though perhaps these are lessening as they respond to their customers.  Hopefully the contract negotiations can be brought to completion fairly quickly and then we can then have a clear communication from Logos letting us all know where we stand.  If they were able to sweeten things for people, just as Abingdon have tried to do for Dan, then that would be admirable.  If they were able to reassure us that the problems encountered here have arisen from issues that should no longer arise, then that would be even better.

It sounds like Abingdon are listening.  Did anyone have that email address handy, or are things so advanced that this is no longer worthwhile?

 

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 30 2012 8:07 AM

Stage One - the price has been updated and, yes, it looks like they're a long way off publication.  NIB is no longer 'Almost There'... (http://www.logos.com/product/8803/new-interpreters-bible)

Posts 21
Jay Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 30 2012 9:07 AM

I appreciate these recent posts. It has helped me to understand the Loooong time of waiting. Thanks folks for getting the updated info on this. I like the NIB and have Hard Copy & Ministry Matters but was hoping the "soon" release was coming my way ...anyway - Thanks!

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 30 2012 9:08 AM

Dan Francis:

It's hard to know who exactly to believe. I have got an email from Abingdon, claiming negotiations are close to complete, for whatever that means, and telling me Logos offer of the NIB was purely at Logos initiative to decide whether to pursue the rights for the works. I had always thought before now Abingdon was working with Logos all along. So things May not seem as bleak as Bob made them sound but at the same point in time it;s not something shortly off either. I am not cancelling my Pre-Order but have been told as an owner of the CDROM version I have free access to the ministry matters online version.

-Dan

I will say that both sides are telling the truth (as they see it).

Posts 5251
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 30 2012 11:22 AM

tom collinge:
I will say that both sides are telling the truth (as they see it).

I never meant to imply Bob or Abingdon were lying, other than one seemed more hopeful than the others, and only means of deception i may have implied was in the offering, but at the same point in time maybe many of the pre pub items are offered always as a way to see if contracts should be sought. 

-Dan

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 20 2013 1:01 PM

I'm still really hoping for New Interpreters. Any chance we'll see it in 2013?

Posts 570
Rev Chris | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 20 2013 1:07 PM

Not likely.  Abingdon seems to have enough problems on their hands, with the closing of all their retail stores and all...

Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer.  Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 20 2013 1:37 PM

Rev Chris:
Not likely.  Abingdon seems to have enough problems on their hands, with the closing of all their retail stores and all...

I didn't know that. It sounds like the perfect time for them to add a new source of digital revenue! Big Smile

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 8:28 PM

Dan Francis:

It's hard to know who exactly to believe. I have got an email from Abingdon, claiming negotiations are close to complete, for whatever that means, and telling me Logos offer of the NIB was purely at Logos initiative to decide whether to pursue the rights for the works. I had always thought before now Abingdon was working with Logos all along. So things May not seem as bleak as Bob made them sound but at the same point in time it;s not something shortly off either. I am not cancelling my Pre-Order but have been told as an owner of the CDROM version I have free access to the ministry matters online version.

-Dan

I have emailed and called various Abingdon editors / officials urging them to publish NIB, NID in Logos format numerous times, and the impression that I get is that they have little interest in marketing their product through Logos. The best I can get from them is a "thank you" for your interest. And a lukewarm, we will consider your request. They seem to prefer their own ebook format.

Since they are closing all their Cokesbury brick and mortar stores, and going to all mail order and online sales, perhaps they will reconsider. Their present strategy has not worked too well. As a UM pastor, my church does a good bit of business with Abingdon / Cokesbury.

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 21 2013 10:52 PM

Michael Childs:

I have emailed and called various Abingdon editors / officials urging them to publish NIB, NID in Logos format numerous times, and the impression that I get is that they have little interest in marketing their product through Logos. The best I can get from them is a "thank you" for your interest. And a lukewarm, we will consider your request. They seem to prefer their own ebook format.

Since they are closing all their Cokesbury brick and mortar stores, and going to all mail order and online sales, perhaps they will reconsider. Their present strategy has not worked too well. As a UM pastor, my church does a good bit of business with Abingdon / Cokesbury.

Can I ask how you contacted Abingdon? I'm trying to figure out the best person to get in touch with. I don't know how much it will help, but it might be good if a lot of us continued to express to them how much we would love to see their resources in Logos.  

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 21 2013 1:50 AM

I'm estimating the current progress bar for The New Interpreter's Bible at just under 70% (based on a crude measurement of my screen).

If I recall correctly, that may represent a slight move upward.

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 21 2013 7:11 AM

Sogol:

Can I ask how you contacted Abingdon? I'm trying to figure out the best person to get in touch with. I don't know how much it will help, but it might be good if a lot of us continued to express to them how much we would love to see their resources in Logos.  

 

Sorry, I just noticed your request.  I apologize for the delay.

M. Kathryn Armistead is the "Lead Editor:  Bible, Leadership, Theology" at Abingdon.  The mailing address was at Abingdon Press, 201 Eighth Avenue South, P.O. Box 801, Nashville, TN  37202.  I exchanged emails with her also, and she was always responsive and nice.   

I will be glad to share with you the email address that I used.  But it is probably a good idea not to post it on a forum.  You can contact me at mikechilds54 at att.net and I will give you the email address, or you can probably find it with a google search or on the Abingdon web page.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 334
Paul Strickert | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 21 2013 7:32 AM

It's hard to know who exactly to believe. I have got an email from Abingdon, claiming negotiations are close to complete, for whatever that means, and telling me Logos offer of the NIB was purely at Logos initiative to decide whether to pursue the rights for the works. I had always thought before now Abingdon was working with Logos all along. So things May not seem as bleak as Bob made them sound but at the same point in time it;s not something shortly off either. I am not cancelling my Pre-Order but have been told as an owner of the CDROM version I have free access to the ministry matters online version.

-Dan

 

I also own the CDROM version.  How does one access the online version for free?

Posts 255
Sogol | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 21 2013 11:11 AM

Michael Childs:

Sorry, I just noticed your request.  I apologize for the delay.

M. Kathryn Armistead is the "Lead Editor:  Bible, Leadership, Theology" at Abingdon.  The mailing address was at Abingdon Press, 201 Eighth Avenue South, P.O. Box 801, Nashville, TN  37202.  I exchanged emails with her also, and she was always responsive and nice.   

I will be glad to share with you the email address that I used.  But it is probably a good idea not to post it on a forum.  You can contact me at mikechilds54 at att.net and I will give you the email address, or you can probably find it with a google search or on the Abingdon web page.

 

This is great, Michael. I'll look it up and get in touch with her. I appreciate the info.

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 22 2013 7:52 AM

Andrew Baguley:

I feel for Dan who has been working hard to try to promote this resource and get it into production.

I greatly appreciate the tireless efforts of Dan to promote the publication of the New Interpreters' Bible in Logos!  He has done a great job and persevered.  I agree and support his cause.  Thanks, Dan.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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