Advance Notice: Logos Ending Windows XP Support October 26, 2012

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 3:49 AM

Well said Ho-Ngon

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Cindy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 4:17 AM

I'm one of the "few XP users" and I'm not sure I t understand what this means.  It sounds like it means that I won't be able to buy anymore books because they won't work since I use XP.  and that I'll have to turn "updates off" on my bible library since if it does update after that, I wouldn't be able to use my library anymore.  Is that about right?

Posts 27
M Luper | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 5:08 AM

Very disappointed. I am an educator and cannot in the midst of a semester take the time to upgrade my system from XP. I wish someone would have had the foresight to announce this more than six weeks ahead of time. Providing such a small window of time does not seem appropriate, and the rationale that it takes time and resources to continue XP does not seem to be an adequate reason to provide such short notice.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 5:10 AM

Cindy LaFreniere:

I'm one of the "few XP users" and I'm not sure I t understand what this means.  It sounds like it means that I won't be able to buy anymore books because they won't work since I use XP.  and that I'll have to turn "updates off" on my bible library since if it does update after that, I wouldn't be able to use my library anymore.  Is that about right?

This will not disable any XP systems, but future releases of books may use new features or data types only available in newer versions of Logos, and thus will not be usable on Windows XP systems. From Bob Pritchett.

 

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 5:10 AM

M Luper:

Very disappointed. I am an educator and cannot in the midst of a semester take the time to upgrade my system from XP. I wish someone would have had the foresight to announce this more than six weeks ahead of time. Providing such a small window of time does not seem appropriate, and the rationale that it takes time and resources to continue XP does not seem to be an adequate reason to provide such short notice.

This will not disable any XP systems, but future releases of books may use new features or data types only available in newer versions of Logos, and thus will not be usable on Windows XP systems. 


Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 10
Ho-Ngon Yung | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 5:29 AM

XP is more difficult than W7? When you get a problem of file sharing permission and hanged there, it is; When you get a blue screen, it is. When you got into some problems that you don't know, it is - For XP , it is easy to get someone to tell you what to do, W7, good luck.

1990 -94- windows 3.0 -Windows NT ;1995 -2001 - windows 95

1998 -2000 - windows 98, windows 2000, windows me

2001-2005 - Stable, usable and fast;                2006 -2008 Windows Vista

2009 - Windows 7 and counting                         ;2012 - Windows 8

This piece of information is taken from Microsoft site. Even Microsoft labels XP as Stable, usable and fast.  Besides, you can see there are so many "interim" versions in between, Microsoft in history never delivered a stable system. Is XP stable? No. Only after 11  years of painstaking efforts from the community that it becomes stable.

Posts 10
Ho-Ngon Yung | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 5:40 AM

There is one more piece of information worth considering

Even Microsoft itself, it claims to drop support for XP in 2012 but will continue to maintain support until 2014. It is because too many people still like XP because it is stable. Read this:

[ From Wikipedia, this is when each version of Windows became (or will become) unsupported by Microsoft:

  • Jan 2020: Windows 7
  • Apr 2017: Windows Vista
  • Apr 2014: Windows XP
  • Jul 2010: Windows 2000
  • Jul 2006: Windows ME
  • Jul 2006: Windows 98
  • Jun 2004: Windows NT 4
  • Dec 2001: Windows 95
  • Dec 2001: Windows NT 3

Tying that to the details in the existing answer:

  • VS in 2012 dropped Windows XP despite it being supported until 2014.
  • VS in 2010 dropped Windows 2000 which expired soon after.
  • VS in 2007 dropped Win98/ME both of which already expired.
  • VS in 2005 dropped Win95 and NT4 both of which which had already expired.

So it looks like VS2012 is the first version that will drop support for an OS which itself will still supported for at least another year. Assuming all these dates are correct (I haven't double-checked them; did this mostly for my own curiousity).]

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 5:53 AM

Ho-Ngon Yung:
Microsoft in history never delivered a stable system. Is XP stable? No.

Then Get a Mac!

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 6:07 AM

Guys,

you don't seem to understand. Did you read Bob's detailed explanation one or two pages up? It's not that Logos don't consider XP stable or want to exclude their XP users from something. The point is that day after day people complain about issues and perfromance problems that are (so I understand) related to the .NET middleware that Logos currently uses in XP-compatible version 3.5. Microsoft now brings out .NET 4.5 for Windows 8 and the way they do this forces non-compatibility of it with XP, thus Logos (who - I speculate based on some bits of info we got through the past months - develop the core of L5 using .NET 4.0), in order to silence the complaints of a large portion of the user base and to be able to deliver Logos 5 on time need to make this decision. Moreover, they loose potential customers day by day who see the complaining of users with current OS here in the forums. Unless MS changes their .NET strategy, Logos will be forced to do what they announced.      

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 74
Ralph Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 6:38 AM

Any surprises where the version of 7 is concerned? 7 starter will be supported?

 

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 6:41 AM

Now Alabama ... every day we calmly sip our collective coffee and watch the Logos-Mac train wobble it's way down the track into history. One day they seem to be backing it up. Then forward. Then it sits. On the next track over, the other Mac-trains are zooming by ... toot toot! Toot toot!

But the XP users' reaction is no different than my reaction to the discontinuance of resources for Libronix. On the one hand, 'duh'. How could a software company try to program for so many platforms going back in time. It doesn't seem logical. However, giving 6 months or even a year's headup is a no brainer too; when Bob announced 'no Libronix!!' the headsup was right in the middle of a major sale. Great headsup; he apologized. And now did it again.

At the heart of the problem are a series of electronic book vendors who haven't been quite up front with 'the deal'. Once you join a vendor (take your pick), you're on their train. Love XP ... that's fine ... train just left that station. Not comfortable with the theological direction/behavior of the vendor? That's fine. Suck it up.

You're on the Logos train until you get off. You love the molassas'y performance, the ages-for-good-books-to-appear, and the dissonance with what you read in the Bible ("It's their business!!"). Yes, you're on THEIR train; not yours.

That's why Libronix offers a great place to climb off. Survivable. Great software. Good library. And the Libronix station-master is oh so quiet. Not a single Libronix email.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 6:52 AM

George Somsel:
Also, Xp was not a development from 3.1 but from Windows 95

In the interest of precision, Windows XP was the follow-up to Windows 2000 which was the follow-up to Windows NT (3.1, 3.5, 3.51, then 4.0). That line of operating systems was a ground up written-from-scratch O.S. led by Dave Cutler (previously from DEC) and intended to be the long-term replacement to Windows 3.1 because OS/2 was floundering. Windows XP did introduce the user interface that was part of Windows 95. But Windows 95 (then 98 and then Me) was the successor to Windows 3.1 - essentially graphical interfaces and task-switchers on top of DOS.

Donnie

 

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 6:53 AM

Bernard Cartledge:
You say very few people are using the XP. This may be in the US, but my experience is that many still use the system elsewhere in the world.

Bob didn't say that very few people are using XP. He said that very few of Logos' customers are using XP.

Donnie

 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 6:58 AM

You are too funny D. Stick out tongue

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Joe | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 7:02 AM

You sound like me Paul- "I just saying..." And I agree with you. I still have XP on my PC (got Windows 7 on the laptop however) and even though it's slow it's the main one that I use for my logos (it's in my office at home were I do my studying) Now I'll have to buy a newer computer just to keep up. However, I'm also like the guy who, in one of the earlier posts, said that it gave him an excuse to upgrade. I've been wanting to do that for some time now but haven't been able to justify the cost. Maybe this will help convince my wife that its a necessity (there's always hope)

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 7:03 AM

Maybe people haven't read the entire thread. Or maybe some of the specifics Bob laid out were missed in the length of one of his posts. So I'll quote two important paragraphs:

Bob Pritchett:

We have done an analysis of our user base, and XP users are a small portion. Most importantly, they won't be "turned off", and it's our intention to provide the best support we can for as long as possible. At the moment, I don't know of any imminent changes that would make new books not work on XP, or any reason people couldn't happily run it and their books (and even new books) for many months / years into the future. 

We intend to retain the ability to compile and release on the existing XP-compatible platform so that we can even do a "service pack" as necessary to 4.6. We're just giving advance notice that we'll be moving future releases to .NET 4, and thus losing this XP support.

Summarizing:

* XP users won't be "turned off".
* Logos will provide the best support for XP users that it can for as long as possible.
* Bob is not aware of imminent changes which would make new books not work on XP.
* Logos may even release updates for the XP platform if the situation calls for it.

Given that, I don't think XP users should be reacting as if the sky is falling.

My $.02 ...

Donnie

 

Posts 2
Robert A. White | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 7:27 AM

All of my systems are XP as I am am IT Director for a large hospital corporation.  Our standard platform is XP service pack 3 and will remain that for the forseeable future.  I will not be loading a different version of windows just to run LOGOS,  so will there be a mechanism to get content updates without being force fed the software updates?

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 7:58 AM

alabama24:

Ho-Ngon Yung:
Microsoft in history never delivered a stable system. Is XP stable? No.

Then Get a Mac!

I think systems are generally about as stable as the person at the keyboard.  Get a MAC?  Would you like to pull out all of my teeth with a rust pliers and not so much as an aspirin?  I would about as soon do that as get a MAC.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 8:02 AM

Robert A. White:
so will there be a mechanism to get content updates without being force fed the software updates?

Yes. You will get resource updates. You will NOT be able to update to newer versions of Logos (unless there is a service release). This process should happen automatically.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 8 2012 8:03 AM

George Somsel:
Would you like to pull out all of my teeth with a rust pliers and not so much as an aspirin?

Don't tempt me George! Big Smile (cue Steve Martin "I want to be a Dentist!")

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