NIV English–Hebrew Reverse Interlinear

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 4 2012 5:04 PM

David Taylor Jr:

I really don't understand why they don't let L4 and other distributors keep selling both versions. It's rather annoying really.

This wasn't Zondervan's / News Corporation's decision, this in compliance with the copyright holders and producers of the NIV, namely The Committee on Bible Translation.

They have made this unilateral decision in keeping with their chief goal that every revision to the NIV text is to bring the translation into line both with contemporary biblical scholarship and with shifts in English idiom and usage. They also believe that the 2011 NIV matches statistically significant data on the state of spoken and written English at this given time in its history.

Finally they believe that the 1984 NIV no longer accomplishes this task, and therefore feel that the 1984 NIV is no longer the most useful text of their goal.

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 4 2012 5:54 PM

Paul Golder:
compliance with the copyright holders

Thanks Paul for this correction.  I will refrain from making any further judgments on either Zondervan or the Committee's work. Or at least I'll try.

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Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 4 2012 6:54 PM

Jerry M:

Paul Golder:
compliance with the copyright holders

Thanks Paul for this correction.  I will refrain from making any further judgments on either Zondervan or the Committee's work. Or at least I'll try.

I don't know, judgment may be appropriate in this situation. One could argue that the 1984 NIV has become such an integral part of the English language Evangelical Church that taking it away, regardless of the right to do so, is somehow wrong.

I know that the original purpose of the NIV was to translate a Bible to late 20th century English, but they were working against a standard that was 400 years old, and to make such sweeping changes to a text that is less than 30 years old almost seems like pandering.

Then there is the argument that their motives are suspect. Shown by the fact that they made the TNIV as a "updated" option to the 1984, (an edition that is more like the 2011 than the 1984), and it failed when competing with the 1984. One could suggest that they are driving with an agenda, rather than responding to societal changes.

Take it for what it's worth, but the factual history does speak volumes...

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 127
Robert I | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 4 2012 9:00 PM

I guess I a bit disappointed with NIV 2011 and feel that the respected work in the OT might be overshadowed by some small but annoying differences.  One is the way they handled propitiation with the typical sacrifice of atonement and the footnote is not as strong as the older NIV.  I like the OT reference, but I think the average reader who does not do a deep dive will miss this.  This was a miss in my humble opinion.

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Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 5:39 PM

Paul Golder:

This wasn't Zondervan's / News Corporation's decision, this in compliance with the copyright holders and producers of the NIV, namely The Committee on Bible Translation.

They have made this unilateral decision in keeping with their chief goal that every revision to the NIV text is to bring the translation into line both with contemporary biblical scholarship and with shifts in English idiom and usage. They also believe that the 2011 NIV matches statistically significant data on the state of spoken and written English at this given time in its history.

Finally they believe that the 1984 NIV no longer accomplishes this task, and therefore feel that the 1984 NIV is no longer the most useful text of their goal.

They are making the biggest mistake in marketing since "New Coke", and it will be harder to correct once the brand damage is done.

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 2827
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 5 2012 5:41 PM

Richard DeRuiter:
The NIV11 is about 95% identical to the NIV84, so it shouldn't be hard to work with.

Wrong.  95% is significant enough to cause it to fail in my eyes.  Every translation is 95% acceptable.

Besides if NIV1984 was good enough for Jesus and St. Paul, it is good enough for me.  I'm not changing, and if I do it will be to an entirely different version, not another NIV. 

I am slow to change and slower to give up.  Why, when I watch the movie "Gettysburg", I keep hoping Bobby Lee can pull it out on the replay.  Never give up - especially the NIV84!  Hey, I live in Mississippi, y'all!

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 3061
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 10:25 AM

Michael Childs:

Besides if NIV1984 was good enough for Jesus and St. Paul, it is good enough for me.   

?

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 10:30 AM

David Taylor Jr:

Michael Childs:

Besides if NIV1984 was good enough for Jesus and St. Paul, it is good enough for me.   

 ?

I think this was a joke, citing a common uneducated stance towards a certain bible version (often attributed to KJV-only advocates, don't know if it goes back to any real citation). It made me smile, at last.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 10:54 AM

haha ok!  I've never seen that said about another translation than the KJV

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 11:33 AM

David Taylor Jr:

haha ok!  I've never seen that said about another translation than the KJV

Don't you know that NIV stands for "Nearly Inspired Version?" Wink

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Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 11:51 AM

Richard DeRuiter:

David Taylor Jr:

haha ok!  I've never seen that said about another translation than the KJV

Don't you know that NIV stands for "Nearly Inspired Version?" Wink

This, of course, only applies to the one true 1984 version Wink

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 12:34 PM

Paul Golder:

Richard DeRuiter:

David Taylor Jr:

haha ok!  I've never seen that said about another translation than the KJV

Don't you know that NIV stands for "Nearly Inspired Version?" Wink

This, of course, only applies to the one true 1984 version Wink

I've always heard, Non-Inspired Version LOL

 

I do own both (print and ebook) and I must say I still prefer the 1984 edition.

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Jerry M | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 6 2012 2:39 PM

When one of my fundamentalist friends tries to rib me with the Non Inspired Version or Eastern Standard Version, I just say KJV stands for Kindergarten Juvenile Version.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 8 2012 6:08 PM

Rick Brannan (Logos):
Reverse interlinears of the Old Testament typically take around a year of concerted effort on the part of an editor.

Rick, if OT RI's typically take a year, you'd expect an Apocrypha RI to take considerably less, so what's holding up the English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the NRSV Apocryphal Texts?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 8 2012 6:20 PM

fgh:

I think the answer is "concerted effort." Stick out tongue

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 8 2012 6:28 PM

I wish on their Logos.com site they'd at least be up front with people (dream on, I know).

What's the chance it's 'Under development'? When I was working, such labels inside a company would not be acceptable (generally someone trying to keep the heat off and hoping they won't be called on it).

 I canceled my order twice (!),  since it's not clear what Logos version it will ever come out under. I get the feeling the NT apocrypha are in the same world.


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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 3:26 PM

So this has now been completed and guess who has a scholars library that didn't get the revers int for the NIV Hebrew?  This is so wrong Logos.

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 3:39 PM

David Taylor Jr:

So this has now been completed and guess who has a scholars library that didn't get the revers int for the NIV Hebrew?  This is so wrong Logos.

Who said it was completed?  Last I saw Rick said end of the year.  Did you hear something else?

(The line item in the base package contents is just a license for it.)

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 4:07 PM

It was listed in the resources for L5 but you are saying it hasn't been completed?  If that's the case I'm not as mad but still very disappointed about how they handled and are handling the L5 release.

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 4 2012 6:06 PM

David Taylor Jr:
you are saying it hasn't been completed?

No, it's not completed yet.

David Taylor Jr:
still very disappointed about how they handled and are handling the L5 release.

Certainly communication could have been better, but I don't see any reason to be disappointed.  Minimal crossgrade pricing and free engine access is coming.

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