Jesus Realizes...That The Apostles Are Still Sinners!!!

Page 3 of 3 (47 items) < Previous 1 2 3
This post has 46 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 20 2012 4:03 PM

I'm very curious what makes theological debate so irresistible. Is it because we don't get enough time in a bully pulpit? Is it spawned from a desire to control others? Or do we have such a lawless nature we must break any rule others set up governing our conduct?

If we are honest with ourselves we must admit throwing sand in each other's eyes never caused the other guy to "see it my way." The great struggles of theology were never settled in the sandbox. Do we fancy ourselves wiser than those who debated these issues with more dignity?

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 20 2012 4:24 PM

Super Tramp:
I'm very curious what makes theological debate so irresistible

talking to myself here :  Do you really think your previous post is gonna help? Surprise

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 4744
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 20 2012 10:32 PM

Room4more:

David Paul:

Ezek. 13:22

Canard explosion time...

Ok, guys...Re: Rom. 3:23. Yes...that is true, but that is NOT DEFINITIVE of what it means to be A SINNER as far as Tanakh is concerned. Nor is it definitive in the Gospels. Simply having sinned in one's lifetime doesn't make you A SINNER according to scripture. [...]

 

Fortunately, I only need one verse of Scripture to point you in the right direction, and also disproves your opening:

 

James 4:17 “Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.”

[I suggest reading the whole of the chapter to get the full meaning of the verse.]

That should be enough for now…..

Hardly. You are again...and perhaps always will be...ignoring the Bible's own definitions.

A person's heart as it pertains to obedience to YHWH is pivotal. If the person is CHOOSING not to do the good (rather than simply overlooking what he ought to know), such is a willful disobedience that results in death. But the person who overlooks doing the good (and thus sins) but then recognizes his fault and repents and then does the good, is righteous. Ezek. 13, 18, 33.

Oh, yeah...WHAT is "good"?? Rom. 7:12, 16; 1 Tim. 8:1 (you may have to look this one up, since RefTag is showing wrong verse); Deut. 6:18, Deut. 10:13; Deut. 12:28.

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 21 2012 9:56 AM

David Paul:

Room4more:

David Paul:

Ezek. 13:22

Canard explosion time...

Ok, guys...Re: Rom. 3:23. Yes...that is true, but that is NOT DEFINITIVE of what it means to be A SINNER as far as Tanakh is concerned. Nor is it definitive in the Gospels. Simply having sinned in one's lifetime doesn't make you A SINNER according to scripture. [...]

 

Fortunately, I only need one verse of Scripture to point you in the right direction, and also disproves your opening:

 

James 4:17 “Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.”

[I suggest reading the whole of the chapter to get the full meaning of the verse.]

That should be enough for now…..

 

Hardly. You are again...and perhaps always will be...ignoring the Bible's own definitions.

A person's heart as it pertains to obedience to YHWH is pivotal. If the person is CHOOSING not to do the good (rather than simply overlooking what he ought to know), such is a willful disobedience that results in death. But the person who overlooks doing the good (and thus sins) but then recognizes his fault and repents and then does the good, is righteous. Ezek. 13, 18, 33.

Oh, yeah...WHAT is "good"?? Rom. 7:12, 16; 1 Tim. 8:1 (you may have to look this one up, since RefTag is showing wrong verse); Deut. 6:18, Deut. 10:13; Deut. 12:28.

I only have a few minutes, but just in passing, I believe that you are confusing the OLD Covenant with the NEW covenant.

 

This is not as far fetched a practice as it may seem, I have read and heard of this happening quite frequently…….

 

We today are under the NEW Covenant, thus we are still sinners [or as some state: A sinner Saved by Grace] cleansed of such by the Blood of Christ, yet, according to Scripture and still by the NEW Covenant, if we – James 4.

 

There is a comparative difference in the two Covenants…..

 

But, that can be another discussion, lets get back to the OP……

 

What is your take on the matter?

 

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 4744
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 22 2012 9:24 AM

Room4more:

But, that can be another discussion, lets get back to the OP……

What is your take on the matter?

Honestly, the OP quote (and I am assuming it is a quote due to the FSB reference that appears underneath it) is so poorly worded that I can hardly make heads or tails out of it...especially the first sentence. The second sentence, in keeping with my earlier elucidation of what it means to be a Sinner, is false. The apostles were not Sinners. Even Peter's self-assessment that he was a sinful man didn't make him a Sinner. Even his denial of Yeishuu`a, of which he repented with tears, did not make him a Sinner. NO Sinners will be in the kingdom...Peter will be. He and the other apostles were not Sinners because they were dedicated to obedience to YHWH/Yeishuu`a and Tohraah. Prov. 24:16 They were righteous because they practiced Tohraah, just like Yeishuua did. 1 Jn. 3:7

The statement "The disciples could not have God’s presence dwell in them while still sinnersHe needed to die for that to be so" is absurd on its face. It relies on at least 3-4 (and probably more) assumption-conclusion sets that are entirely false.

There is nothing about the effects of the crucifixion that is time-bound. The crucifixion itself was necessarily time-bound, but Yeishuu`a Himself was considerd "slain from the foundation of the world". All assertions that something changed when He died are false. YHWH recognizes things that are not as though they are, and that is most true regarding the effects of the cross.

The notion that the Spirit was not present before Shaabhu`ohtth (Pentecost) is nonsense. The disciples healed people and cast out demons by the power of the Spirit before both the Cross and Pentecost.

 

Posts 143
Peter Lever | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 3 2013 9:27 AM

16:7 to you Jesus is looking ahead to the time when His disciples will carry on His work. When Jesus has gone, the Spirit will then become their advocate (see note on 14:26).

Posts 143
Peter Lever | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 3 2013 9:29 AM

Thanks Logos for the fix!

Page 3 of 3 (47 items) < Previous 1 2 3 | RSS