Theology/Denomination Tags

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This post has 587 Replies | 39 Followers

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 23 2014 1:28 PM

MJ. Smith:

I'd started on this because of the Roman Catholic vs. Catholic thing - I'm delighted you gave us another Eastern rite Catholic. I might "win this battle" yet.

Many thanks for all of the work you've put into this, MJ.  I've finally changed to Catholic (Roman).  I think that's closer to what you wanted at least.  Keep the suggestions coming.

Apologies for the places the spreadsheet still doesn't give you what you want.  Please let me know about anything I've missed. It probably isn't deliberate.  The few exceptions would be not creating new theologies for the few Catholics that you mentioned.  I'd be interested in comments on the names I've used for the Orders, etc.

I couldn't find clear evidence for George Panikulam, although I didn't spend long on it.  Is there any chance you could post a link for this?

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 23 2014 1:38 PM

MJ. Smith:

Faith Bible Church (Independent)
__________________

Bailey, Mark L. http://www.faithbible.com/about-us/our-history/

I'm not sure what you were suggesting here.  Surely this isn't a category in itself.  I've just changed it to Baptist, subcategory Baptist.  Sadly this was after I posted the above spreadsheet, but it will be present in the next update.

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 23 2014 1:48 PM

MJ. Smith:

I don't know about others but I'd find it useful to have the Anglican/Church of England divided into categories such as Oxford Movement, Evangelical school etc. Others would know more about this but if we divide Catholics by religious order, this seems like a logical extension.

I thought about this some time ago.  The most natural categories may be those I used for the theological colleges on the Colleges & Universities worksheet: High Anglican, Anglo-Catholic, Conservative Evangelical, Open Evangelical, Evangelical and Liberal, though I couldn't find any that self-identify as liberal, and some of the labels are more readily used than others.

For authors, I added an Oxford Movement rule to the Notes worksheet some time ago:

Oxford Movement: Author:("Keble, John", "Liddon, H. P.", "Marriott, Charles", "Pusey, E. B") OR Title:("Tracts for the Times")

It seems a bit of a limited category, so I left it there rather than complicate the spreadsheet.  Evangelical Anglicans can be found by mixing the Anglican Stream/Category and Evangelical Theology.  Filtering the spreadsheet will show these quickly.  A rule could be created for them in a couple of ways, but I wasn't convinced about creating a new category.  I'm open to other Anglican categories, but these would certainly be the most obvious.

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 23 2014 1:57 PM

fgh:

Instead of Roman Catholic it should be something like Catholic (Latin Rite), Catholic (Melkite), etc. That way all Catholics can be sorted together on the spreadsheet.  And then the same with the orders: Franciscan (OFM), Franciscan (OFM Cap), etc. With or without deciphering.

Many thanks, fgh.  I think I've incorporated much of what you suggested, though I went for Catholic (Roman), as I think this is more recognisable.

I haven't categorised Bede, as it looked like a guess.

Benedict of Nursia I left uncategorised.  Would it be anachronistic to label him OSB, as suggested by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_of_Nursia?  I'll add Benedictine if not.

I couldn't find Chacour at Logos.com.  Is this an author published by Logos?

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 23 2014 2:09 PM

Sandro Polenta:

Someone may be interested in the following collection:

Cessationist

Author:( "Sproul, R.C.", "Schreiner, Thomas", “Warfield, B. B.”, “Chantry, Walter J.”, “Edgar, Thomas R.”, “Farnell, F. David”, “Gaffin, Richard B.”, “Geisler, Norman L.”, “Gentry, Kenneth L.”, “Gromacki, Robert G.”, “Hoekema, Anthony”, “Judisch, Douglas”, “MacArthur, John”, “Poythress, Vern S.”, “Robertson, O. Palmer”, “Thomas, Robert L.”, “White, R. Fowler”, “Adams, Jay E.“, “Gardiner, George E.“, “Masters, Peter“, “Napier, John“, “Waldron Samuel E.“)

Very helpful, Sandro.  I've added this as a new theology on the spreadsheet.  It generated the rule below:

Author:("Adams, Jay E.", "Chantry, Walter J.", "Farnell, F. David", "Gaffin, Richard B.", "Geisler, Norman L.", "Gentry, Kenneth L.", "Gromacki, Robert", "Hoekema, Anthony", "MacArthur, John F.", "Poythress, Vern S.", "Robertson, O. Palmer", "Schreiner, Thomas R.", "Sproul, R. C.", "Thomas, Robert L.", "Waldron, Samuel E.", "Warfield, Benjamin B.", "White, R. Fowler")

The missing names are for people I couldn't see as authors on Logos.com.  I'm trying to limit it to current authors in order to keep the project manageable (and useful, in terms of Logos collections).  I've published the new rule at: https://faithlife.com/logos-library-theology-denomination-tags/documents 

Note: The list looks reliable, but I haven't checked it, so please feel free to suggest corrections or additions.

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 23 2014 2:15 PM

MJ. Smith:

Reformed
__________

Zimmerli, Walther http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_Zimmerli

One last note for today, MJ.  If you were able to convert the links you paste into clickable links, then that would be really helpful.  Typing a space after each one is usually enough for them to be automatically changed.

Thanks again.  I've really appreciated all your work on this, as I'm sure others have.  Smile

Posts 47
Cale Judd | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 23 2014 8:08 PM

Curiously, the "Denomination: Wesleyan Church" tag, when selected, returns only two of my 18 volumes in the series of "Commentaries in the Wesleyan Tradition." The authors of every volume are included in the spreadsheet, albeit without middle initials in some cases, and all are identified as "Wesleyan." 

Posts 25
Sandro Polenta | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 23 2014 11:36 PM

Thank you Andrew

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 23 2014 11:58 PM

Andrew Baguley:
I couldn't find clear evidence for George Panikulam, although I didn't spend long on it.  Is there any chance you could post a link for this?

from http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Panikulam

George Panikulam

George Panikulam (* 26. Oktober 1942 in Puthenchira, Indien) ist syro-malabarischer Erzbischof und vatikanischer Diplomat.

or from http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bpanik.html

(one is ordained into the rite of the ordaining bishop)

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 24 2014 10:45 AM

Andrew Baguley:
I couldn't find Chacour at Logos.com.

Check Vyrso.Wink

Quick comments:

  • Forigno should be Foligno.
  • Change Discalced Carmelite (OCD) to Carmelite, Discalced (OCD), so that the two branches sort together.
  • I suspect OFS and TOSF are simply the Latin and English abbreviations for the same branch of secular Franciscans. MJ?
  • It seems Jean Marie Vianney and Jeanne d'Arc were both TOSF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Order_of_Saint_Francis#Notable_members (which also mentions a number of popes).
  • As MJ states above, Francis de Sales was an Oratorian, not a Capucin.
  • I've never heard the word Visitationist. I'm used to Visitandine. But then I'm not a native speaker. MJ?
  • I'd still prefer Brennan Manning as an ordinary lay Catholic, since he left both the order and the priesthood. And I'd still prefer von Balthasar as Jesuit, as that's where his spirituality comes from. 

Lutheran / Church of Sweden:

  • Bo Giertz 1905-1998
  • Cristina Grenholm 1959->
  • Lars Hartman 1930->
  • Bengt Hägglund (not Hagglund!)  1920->
  • Antje Jackelén 1955->
  • Krister Stendahl 1921-2008
  • Gustaf Wingren 1910-2000

Swedish Mission Covenant Church:

  • Paul Petter Waldenström 1838-1917

(I guess you'll have to list him under Reformed, since internationally that's where they're organized, though in many ways they're more Lutheran than Reformed.)

Swedes of unknown confession:

  • Karin Hedner Zetterholm
  • Magnus Zetterholm
  • Samuel Byrskog 1957->

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 24 2014 12:44 PM

Cale Judd:

Curiously, the "Denomination: Wesleyan Church" tag, when selected, returns only two of my 18 volumes in the series of "Commentaries in the Wesleyan Tradition." The authors of every volume are included in the spreadsheet, albeit without middle initials in some cases, and all are identified as "Wesleyan." 

Thanks for the feedback, Cale.  All of these should be listed under Theology: Wesleyan.  However, authors such as Alex Varughese (https://www.logos.com/product/15604/jeremiah-1-25-a-commentary-in-the-wesleyan-tradition) are not in the Wesleyan Church as a denomination.  He is in the Church of the Nazarene.  This wasn't a church that I listed originally, though I would be happy to add it.  Even if I do, he still won't be listed under Denomination: Wesleyan Church as this relates to the specific denomination: Wesleyan Church.  When there is a theology listed, such as Wesleyan or Reformed, there is no Denomination Stream.  Hope that clarifies.

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 24 2014 12:52 PM

MJ. Smith:

(one is ordained into the rite of the ordaining bishop)

Thanks, MJ.  I wasn't sure about the effect of being consecrated by Pope John Paul II, but if it's his ordination that counts then I'm happy to accept that.  I've changed the spreadsheet, though I'll make more changes before republishing it.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 24 2014 1:38 PM

Andrew Baguley:
but if it's his ordination that counts then I'm happy to accept that.

And that that the German Wikipedia gives his rite as Syro-MalabarWink It is possible for a priest to change rites and to be multiple rites but as far as I know this is a straight forward case.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 24 2014 2:41 PM

fgh:

Andrew Baguley:
I couldn't find Chacour at Logos.com.

Check Vyrso.Wink

Quick comments:

  • Forigno should be Foligno.
  • Change Discalced Carmelite (OCD) to Carmelite, Discalced (OCD), so that the two branches sort together.
  • I suspect OFS and TOSF are simply the Latin and English abbreviations for the same branch of secular Franciscans. MJ?
  • It seems Jean Marie Vianney and Jeanne d'Arc were both TOSF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Order_of_Saint_Francis#Notable_members (which also mentions a number of popes).
  • As MJ states above, Francis de Sales was an Oratorian, not a Capucin.
  • I've never heard the word Visitationist. I'm used to Visitandine. But then I'm not a native speaker. MJ?
  • I'd still prefer Brennan Manning as an ordinary lay Catholic, since he left both the order and the priesthood. And I'd still prefer von Balthasar as Jesuit, as that's where his spirituality comes from. 

Lutheran / Church of Sweden:

  • Bo Giertz 1905-1998
  • Cristina Grenholm 1959->
  • Lars Hartman 1930->
  • Bengt Hägglund (not Hagglund!)  1920->
  • Antje Jackelén 1955->
  • Krister Stendahl 1921-2008
  • Gustaf Wingren 1910-2000

Swedish Mission Covenant Church:

  • Paul Petter Waldenström 1838-1917

(I guess you'll have to list him under Reformed, since internationally that's where they're organized, though in many ways they're more Lutheran than Reformed.)

Swedes of unknown confession:

  • Karin Hedner Zetterholm
  • Magnus Zetterholm
  • Samuel Byrskog 1957->

I've added Chacour, corrected Foligno, changed to Carmelite (Discalced), and changed Brennan Manning.

It looks like OFS is a subset of TOSF, as they can be Regular, rather than Secular. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Order_of_St._Francis#Third_Order_Regular)

Apologies over Francis de Sales.  I didn't read carefully enough.  He was only an associate member of the OFM Cap and although the foundation he started died out soon after, the Oratory is still strong today.  I've changed his category to the Oratory.

Visitandine looks better, though it looks like they're known as both.  I've changed it.

The normal rule (suggested long ago by MJ) is that we categorise with what was applicable at the time of writing.  Therefore von Balthasar would be a diocesan priest.  However, there may be a better reason, as you argue, to leave him as a Jesuit.  MJ?

Thanks for all the Swedes.  I've added all except the unknown confessions.  I'd rather wait until someone provides evidence for their confessions.

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 24 2014 3:08 PM

I wouldn't normally publish updates so close together, but this has a fantastic new feature, thanks to some new code from Randy Sims.

You can now filter the spreadsheet, click the new button in cell BH1, and a rule to match the filtered list will appear in cell BI1.  Copy this into a new collection in Logos and you can now generate rules for Female Presbyterians, US Lutherans, or Evangelical Anglicans.  There are lots of possible permutations.

I know the feature will prove really useful to me. I hope it will be useful to others as well.

Many thanks, Randy.  Big Smile

Here's the spreadsheet:

7612.Denominations and Theology 24 April 2014.zip

Posts 3154
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 24 2014 6:19 PM

Andrew Baguley:
Benedict of Nursia I left uncategorised.  Would it be anachronistic to label him OSB, as suggested by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_of_Nursia?  I'll add Benedictine if not.

He should be OSB for sorting and other practical purposes. Oratories are autonomous congregations that (presently) form a loose confederation, but no one would label St. Philip Neri (accidental founder of the first Oratory) as non-Oratorian. Besides that, a lot of people will be confused if St. Benedict is not labelled as a Benedictine and, more importantly, it will throw off their searching.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 25 2014 12:03 AM

Andrew Baguley:
However, there may be a better reason, as you argue, to leave him as a Jesuit.  MJ?

It seems reasonable.

Are you going to update the Faithlife Collections or do we have to update off the spreadsheet?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 45
Darren Loechel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 25 2014 9:30 PM

I hadn't checked in on this discussion for a few months and am amazed by the progress, but found it hard to know how to do the updates now. There aren't any instructions that I could find in the Faithlife group, or on the spreadsheet (though I did update each collection from the Faithlife group after reading an earlier post). With this latest spreadsheet, I pressed the 'Refresh' button on the "Logos Rules" tab of the spreadsheet. Is that all I have to do?

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 26 2014 12:54 PM

SineNomine:

Andrew Baguley:
Benedict of Nursia I left uncategorised.  Would it be anachronistic to label him OSB, as suggested by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_of_Nursia?  I'll add Benedictine if not.

He should be OSB for sorting and other practical purposes. Oratories are autonomous congregations that (presently) form a loose confederation, but no one would label St. Philip Neri (accidental founder of the first Oratory) as non-Oratorian. Besides that, a lot of people will be confused if St. Benedict is not labelled as a Benedictine and, more importantly, it will throw off their searching.

Thanks.  I've changed him to OSB.

Posts 579
Andrew Baguley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 26 2014 1:07 PM

Von Balthasar is now Jesuit.

It's a good question about updating the collections.  I usually try to publish the spreadsheet and collections at the same time, but it takes quite a while to go through all the collections, so there may sometimes be a lag.  I'd be only too happy if someone offered to republish all of the collections each time the spreadsheet is updated.  I don't have much time at the moment, so updating the collections means less work on the spreadsheet, and there's still a lot I'd like to do to it.

Any offers to update would be greatly appreciated. Big Smile

The plan is to publish all of the Denomination Streams and Theologies, but only the Denominations with the most authors, simply because it takes so much time.  I'd be only too happy for them all to be done.  Other Denominations can be updated from the spreadsheet by anyone interested.

Of course, the original plan was to simply show it was achievable and suggest Logos did it all for us.  Much of it could then happen automatically.  Occasionally Logos change the way an author's name is listed, but I can only change the spreadsheet and collections if someone lets me know.  If the project was taken over by Logos, it could be automatic.

I've learned a lot from the project, but the bigger the project, the more time it takes.  It either needs more crowdsourcing, to be taken over by Logos, or to slow down a bit.

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