Do all the different reverse interlinears in Logos 4 use the texts that the translations followed?

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Sam Shaw | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Nov 22 2009 4:40 PM

Obviously, different translations are sometimes translated from different texts. The NIV was criticized for using eclectic texts, for example. Here's my question: If I was to look at the NIV's reverse interlinear, would the Hebrew and Greek text underneath look different from the KJV: Cam's Interlinear?

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Greg Gray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 22 2009 5:12 PM

No expert here, but judging by the interlinears in the NKJV and the NASB (just looking at I john 5:7) I would say they follow the texts that the Translations follow.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 22 2009 6:52 PM

Sam Shaw:

Obviously, different translations are sometimes translated from different texts. The NIV was criticized for using eclectic texts, for example. Here's my question: If I was to look at the NIV's reverse interlinear, would the Hebrew and Greek text underneath look different from the KJV: Cam's Interlinear?

Yes! Though I can't be sure about the Hebrew lineage, the KJV variants and NKJV are  based on a Greek TR version and NIV is based on a Greek "eclectic " text and the latest editions of Biblia Hebraica.

Dave
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eddespaghetti | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 11:30 AM

Does anyone know what specific apparatus (or plural) are used for each interlinear in Logos 4? Is each interlinear based on the same apparatus that version was translated from? Or, are they all pulling from a single source?

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:47 PM

Here is some background on the NT texts http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3704/28542.aspx, http://community.logos.com/forums/t/5359.aspx and a snippet for the Hebrew texts http://community.logos.com/forums/p/4986/40005.aspx

I think that the modern RI bibles in Logos all use BHS in the OT and NA27in the NT, irrespective of any variations the publishers of  the bibles may have incorporated into their base.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:58 PM

Dave Hooton:
I think that the modern RI bibles in Logos all use BHS in the OT and NA27in the NT, irrespective of any variations the publishers of  the bibles may have incorporated into their base.

 

If that is the case, is there any danger the German Bible Society will pull a copyright claim again and wipe-out our reverse interlinears???

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 4 2010 3:33 AM

Matthew C Jones:

If that is the case, is there any danger the German Bible Society will pull a copyright claim again and wipe-out our reverse interlinears???

Hopefully the truth will not be impeded by my supposition!

Dave
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Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 4 2010 4:51 AM

Dave Hooton:
I think that the modern RI bibles in Logos all use BHS in the OT and NA27in the NT, irrespective of any variations the publishers of  the bibles may have incorporated into their base.

Dave, even the NKJV RI uses the NA27 for the RI?  That should provide for all sorts of fun...

 

 

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 4 2010 5:05 AM

Dave Hooton:
I think that the modern RI bibles in Logos all use BHS in the OT and NA27in the NT, irrespective of any variations the publishers of  the bibles may have incorporated into their base.

I highly doubt this assertion. I remember someone at Logos saying that the ESV reverse interlinear was final checked by the ESV editors, I doubt that they would Ok associating a NA27 reading when they used a variant reading.

And I've found an example using sympathetic highlighting, in John 10:16 the ESV MSS line reads γενήσεται while the NA27 reads γενήσονται.

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 4 2010 5:47 AM

Hi folks.

Sam Shaw:

Obviously, different translations are sometimes translated from different texts. The NIV was criticized for using eclectic texts, for example. Here's my question: If I was to look at the NIV's reverse interlinear, would the Hebrew and Greek text underneath look different from the KJV: Cam's Interlinear?

Generally, we use the text that the translation is based on if we can do it at all, and we can do this in the NT, for the most part (where this discussion seems to be focused). If we don't know the exact edition, we get as close as we can.

Specifically:

ESV: We use a modified version of the UBS/NA text; the publisher provided the modifications. There are just over 100 divergences, I believe.

KJV/NKJV/RV1960: We use the Scrivener edition of the TR as its basic purpose is to attempt to re-create the text the NT KJV translators had at hand. The NKJV uses the same text; as does the RV1960 (Spanish).

NASB/NRSV/LEB: These use the UBS/NA edition of the NT.

NLT: We use a modified version of the UBS/NA text; the publisher provided the modifications. I don't recall the number of divergences here. Over 100 and under 300, I believe.

NIV: This NT reverse interlinear alignment is in the production stage (we have someone working on the alignment). We are aligning to the UBS/NA text as we do not have permission to republish or access to the Greek text behind the NIV (available in print in Goodrich & Lukaszewski's A Reader's Greek New Testament), so we are aligning the best we can, and will insert notes at divergence points. Note that many of these are available in the NIV NT footnotes that have "Some MSS have ..." style notes. The Greek text behind the NIV has, I believe, between 100-150 divergences from the UBS/NA text.

As for OT Reverse Interlinears, at present they are all aligned with the Andersen-Forbes Analyzed Hebrew Text.

So, Sam, to answer your question: For the Greek NT, the KJV and NIV reverse interlinears will use different underlying texts. For the Hebrew OT, they will use the same underling text.

Hope it helps.

Rick Brannan
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Ray D | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 4 2010 7:05 AM

Sam Shaw:

Obviously, different translations are sometimes translated from different texts. The NIV was criticized for using eclectic texts, for example. Here's my question: If I was to look at the NIV's reverse interlinear, would the Hebrew and Greek text underneath look different from the KJV: Cam's Interlinear?

Yes ... great question Sam. I was wondering this myself. Thanks for the clear response Rick. I love this forum. Big SmileYes

 

 

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Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 4 2010 5:17 PM

Rick Brannan:
Hope it helps.

 

Thanks Rick

 

 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 4:50 AM

Terry Poperszky:
Dave, even the NKJV RI uses the NA27 for the RI?  That should provide for all sorts of fun...

Terry, I knew that the NKJV was not based on NA27 because it's not a modern bible, but I didn't make that sufficiently clear!

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 4:56 AM

Kevin Becker:
I highly doubt this assertion.

Ah, Ah, Kevin. It was a supposition - remember my use of "but"? Well here I used "think"!

Dave
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tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 5:13 AM

Rick Brannan:
As for OT Reverse Interlinears, at present they are all aligned with the Andersen-Forbes Analyzed Hebrew Text.

Question, did you provide footnotes when the translators used a text (like the LXX) that diverged from the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia?  I am assuming the BHS = "Andersen-Forbes Analyzed Hebrew Text".

Thanks

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 5:23 AM

Dave Hooton:
Ah, Ah, Kevin. It was a supposition - remember my use of "but"? Well here I used "think"!

Big Smile Dave, it's clear you and I communicate differently! I'm not singling you out to nitpick. It's just that twice your statements have prompted me to do some research.

I'll try to be more sensitive to how you express hypotheses in the future Smile.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 6:18 AM

Kevin Becker:
I'll try to be more sensitive to how you express hypotheses in the future Smile

And I'll try to make my hypotheses a little clearerSmile

Dave
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Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 6:26 AM

Dave Hooton:
I knew that the NKJV was not based on NA27 because it's not a modern bible,

 

This is probably OT and of no real consequence (and not to be seen as a defense of, or attack on the NKJV) , but how do you define Modern then? When I use the word, I think of it as "recent in history"

 

 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 1:17 PM

Terry Poperszky:

Dave Hooton:
I knew that the NKJV was not based on NA27 because it's not a modern bible,

This is probably OT and of no real consequence (and not to be seen as a defense of, or attack on the NKJV) , but how do you define Modern then? When I use the word, I think of it as "recent in history"

I didn't use the  term in its dictionary sense. But modern bibles are not based on the TR!

Dave
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Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2010 5:05 PM

Dave Hooton:
But modern bibles are not based on the TR!

Now, it makes sense. 

 

 

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