I still don't get search

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This post has 16 Replies | 1 Follower

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Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Oct 8 2012 11:02 AM

I did a search today for 

evangelism AND cost

 

entries show up that have only evangelism but not cost. What am I missing?

Posts 10178
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 8 2012 11:08 AM

Josh ... your question is so funny. If there's a 1000 Logos users, there must be a 1000 people who did what you did (me included).

Then the results show up, and you say 'What??'.  (But Bob did say this weekend that Logos was not meant to be simple.)

I alway solve the problem with NEAR (or WITHIN X WORDS); you're probably doing a BASIC search which doesn't self limit to a verse.


Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 8 2012 12:36 PM

DMB:
 (But Bob did say this weekend that Logos was not meant to be simple.)

In making searches not simple, Logos totally succeeded.  A rare feat indeed for IT people.  (My daughter and son-in-law both have degrees in IT.  Nothing personal, at least towards my daughter.)

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 765
Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 8 2012 12:44 PM

OK, use NEAR instead of AND

Just curious, what does AND do?

Posts 1842
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 8 2012 12:46 PM

I did the same search in BIBLE and came up with no hits, Did the same search in BASIC and came up with 833 results in my library.

This is probably because the word "evangelism" does not appear in the NASB

Searching for "Evangelism NEAR cost" in a BASIC search yielded 8 results in my library.

 

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 1842
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 8 2012 12:49 PM

my understanding is that (I know there are more specific details but this is a broad brush explanation)

I believe AND reports any time both words appear in the same verse in a Bible search or in the same article/chapter in a Basic search

NEAR reports anytime the words are within 48 characters of each other, regardless of if there is a verse or chapter break.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 9 2012 2:34 AM

David Thomas:
NEAR reports anytime the words are within 48 characters of each other, regardless of if there is a verse or chapter break.

NEAR, BEFORE x Words, AFTER x Words etc. still respect the search boundary (same verse or same article) but limit the separation of the words, unlike AND (where the words can be anywhere within the boundary).

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 1842
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 9 2012 7:27 AM

@Dave Hooton - thanks for the clarification!

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 9 2012 9:15 AM

Josh Hunt:

I did a search today for 

evangelism AND cost 

entries show up that have only evangelism but not cost. What am I missing?

Josh, forgive me if this sounds too blunt (KS4J would be able to bring this accross in a much softer tone than I), but I happen to think that you overlooked "cost" appearing in your search results. Unlike others commenting here, for my understanding this is not an issue of Logos-bashing for not being Google, but it either an oversight on your side or a very serious bug that everybody would scream about.

Josh Hunt:

OK, use NEAR instead of AND Just curious, what does AND do?

AND should do what it logically means: deliver results that contain both of the arguments you named within the article boundary.

This is not a problem of complicated or non-complicated search, but of right or wrong. An article that contains only "evangelism" and not cost would be a result for   

evangelism OR cost

but not for your search. For example, when I do the same and sort by count (the rank not giving any meaningful info for me), the topmost resource is an article from ERT with 39 hits. 

 

At first I thought, yeah, "evangelism", marked in a kind of light-red is everywhere, can this be? But I nearly overlooked that one instance where cost occurs, marked light-blue on white. 

Maybe you can verify and search within your results with the text-search (Ctrl-F) or post some of your results? 

 

 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 765
Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 9 2012 9:41 AM

Well, you are right, cost does appear--it appears to be several chapters later. The document is one of my books that is a copy and paste from a PDF file. 

 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 9 2012 9:59 AM

Josh Hunt:

Well, you are right, cost does appear--it appears to be several chapters later. The document is one of my books that is a copy and paste from a PDF file. 

Josh,

good to see Search is not broken.

It seems then, that search regards your whole book as one large article. When you differentiate the chapters by using Heading styles in Word for the chapter titles (which makes them appear in the automated TOC), search will apply AND and the other parameters only within a chapter.

I use Word's outline view for this, it's much more convenient than applying styles manually.

Mick

 

 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 765
Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 9 2012 10:11 AM

what are the other parameters? AND OR NEAR. . . 

Posts 582
Gary O'Neal | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 9 2012 10:49 AM

Josh Hunt:

what are the other parameters? AND OR NEAR. . . 

There's an extensive wiki page that describes these -- http://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help

Some of the others are ANDNOT, BEFORE, AFTER, NOTEQUALS ...

 

πάντα εἰς δόξαν θεοῦ ποιεῖτε

Posts 10178
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 9 2012 10:50 AM

This illustrates why 'search' could benefit from the same intelligent lookup that the command entry was given (after a number of user complaints .... er ... Logos bashing).


Posts 765
Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 9 2012 11:00 AM

I think my real problem in this case was the resource itself i was looking in. Because it was copied and pasted it had no headings, thus was searching anywhere in the document for the two words. I will look over that page, Gary. Thanks to all. 

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 9 2012 11:26 AM

If Microsoft helpers were added to Logos...

Hi, my name's Chet, I'll be your Logos search assistant today

 

 

Sorry, I just couldn't resist. 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 13 2012 7:47 PM

Josh Hunt:

I did a search today for

evangelism AND cost

For Logos search, have option to leave out AND since the default is looking for terms AND'd together:

Ordering search results by Ranked can show words a bit closer together.

Keep Smiling Smile

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